January 2018 Transfer Thread

[VERBAL DIARRHEA 9,742]

Ah, that old chestnut. We've just added 8 thousand seats and the stadium is effectively sold out for all PL and the CL games it's hosted to date.

Yeah we would fill it bar a few games a season.

[Aventus 2,589]

It's the old answer, worth as much as someone would pay to buy. I'll be majorly surprised if anyone is willing to pay a billion for virtually any club, mega rich people prefer to build something virtually from scratch rather than a turn key purchase.

 

Different financiers such as Deloitte, KPMG and Forbes etc use different formulas to value clubs and businesses but it wouldnt surprise me if the paper value of the club is near £800m - £1bn.

Do we give up hope of ever being sold to an owner with deep pockets then? If you're right then all the new buyers will be looking at teams that generally finish below us and turning them into teams that finish above us, will be just keep slipping down until we are considered the cheap option for an ambitious owner in like 30 years once it's all come full circle?

[TheHowieLama 13,029]

Jimny - honest question how many mega rich people do you know?

[The Acolyte 58]

Mate.

 

Mate. I mean, I like your optimism, but I would take 25m for Henderson, even in this market, in a second. I get the "in this market he's worth double his actual worth" thing but I think his actual worth is probably about 15m so in this market he's worth 25m. 30m would be stretching it but I wouldn't have said anything at that figure.

 

But 50m is crazy. He's 27 years old, in my opinion his decline is already started, given his injuries. I think we should have sold him last summer and I desperately hope we do next summer because if he has another injury-plagued season we'll be lucky to get 15m for him in 2019.

Add to that the shitty World Cup he'll no doubt have

[Ginny 1,142]

Would love amazon to come in and buy us. We’d be the first to have a drone stadium. Floating above the city. Imagine Jeff Bezos going in hard on player negotiations .

[jimmycase 1,076]

Do we give up hope of ever being sold to an owner with deep pockets then? If you're right then all the new buyers will be looking at teams that generally finish below us and turning them into teams that finish above us, will be just keep slipping down until we are considered the cheap option for an ambitious owner in like 30 years once it's all come full circle?

 

Depends if you see getting an owner with 'deep pockets' as the panacea to the perceived problems with the club. Then, there's the issue would such an owner treat the club as his \ her personal play thing like mansour at city never mind would they spend their personal wealth to the level of some fan's expectations.

 

Of all the clubs that have been sold, only one to my knowledge has been sold for mega money, manchester united. So, I think on the balance of probability any new mega rich person or conglomerate will buy a smaller club and spend money building that up.

 

Jimny - honest question how many mega rich people do you know?

 

Im aware of many mega rich people in the world, same as you. I dont know anyone personally and I dont see any of them rushing to buy football club's right now, you?

 

But that's not the point. Abramovich bought chelsea for about £80m, shinawatra bought city for about £150m and mansour bought the club off him for around £200m (I think). Im not sure how much the qatarii's bought psg for. How much has moshiri paid for his near 50% stake in the shite?

[TheHowieLama 13,029]

I think if anything now there are more clubs trading hands. Also any consortium generally has had one significant individual at the helm.

 

The reason there have not been any high profile English clubs (although I can think WBA, Stoke, Southampton, Villa etc all sold in the last couple of years) is that for the first time in history owning a EPL team can make you money - so why sell now?

 

You do not see alot of NFL teams selling for the same reason. They print money. In fact I think since the last NFL team truly changed hands (many are passed down to heirs) a dozen top teams have probably changed hands in the footy world.

Both Milan teams in the last 18 months as well. 

 

Abramovich's own accounts show him plowing 1 billion into Chelsea during his ownership - Mansour the same in what, half that time? Not sure referencing the amounts they purchased those teams is indicative of much - both were established teams when they were purchased and the league was in a very different position.

 

I dont remember the camera panning to a billionaire financier sitting in the stands like a vulture back then either.

 

The Glazers bought United piece by piece and more than doubled their money in 7 years - if anything they got the club on the cheap because of the debt.

[jimmycase 1,076]

Well the proof of the pudding is in the eating and Im even less sure why the NFL franchise system is used as a comparision to football clubs and, their relegation \ promotion that can impact a club's 'price.'

 

But the fact remains and is supported in that position, that mega rich owners tend to buy run down or smaller clubs.

 

The major exception to that is, as Ive said numerous times previously, when the glazers 'bought' united. They were already top of the pile and worth more than any other club in England by some considerable amount.

[G Richards 4,267]

FSG might have a strategy. Get the club in order, grow the revenue streams, increase the capacity - and then get out, selling for a big profit. I hate the expression, but the strategy may have been to pick the low hanging fruit and then turn a massive profit. If they sell for something like 4x their investment it will be a very nice return.

 

An argument could be made that to now take us that extra step further it is not worth the return on investment for them. To pretty much guarantee a regular title challenge you need to spend the sort of money we see Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea spend. Perhaps the owners have concluded that they can not and will not do that.

 

So what do you do, stick or twist?

 

Looking at their current interest level - they are not at many games, and they barely say anything about us - I would not be surprised at all if they sell up. I don’t have any sense that they are “at the wheel” and trying to achieve anything of note here.

 

So, is it worth it for a new owner? Well, that depends! Let’s imagine it’s a billion pound outlay to buy the club. Only a tiny select group of people could even do that. They would not want to lose money, but they could look at the growth of the Premier League, the future of how games might be shown - Amazon, Facebook, etc. and our supporter base, and they will conclude that it will be OK on that side. However, the amount of money to be made won’t exactly quicken their pulse, because they will already be multi-billionaires, and I think they will be after something else in addition to making a few bob.

 

If we are sold my guess is it will be to someone who has so much money that what they are doing is a branding sort of exercise, for their country or their company. They will want success and they will want to be associated with that. Based on the rumors, it could either be the Saudis or UAE. My money would be on the Saudis. I don’t think any of them are in football yet, so they would be blazing a trail for their own kingdom. They have money to burn, obviously, and looking at the geopolitical situation, they would welcome some positive PR that this would bring.

 

It will be interesting to see if anything happens.

[TheHowieLama 13,029]

But the fact remains and is supported in that position, that mega rich owners tend to buy run down or smaller clubs.

 

 

02 Chelsea are a CL team and finish 4th

 

Abro buys them in 03 - the top 10 teams in the league that season have all been purchased by, or welcomed near majority, new ownership since then. Every one. So in just over a dozen seasons all those teams traded hands.

 

The NFL can be used as a comparision because it is the playground of the mega rich - 5 of the top 10 most valuable sports teams in the world (damn near the every team in the whole league is worth more than LFC) - and shows that once a team is not bleeding money there is no reason to sell it. 

 

The only point you have right is that the promotion system does not insulate owners in footy. It also allows for speculation - see AS Monaco.

There are very few run down clubs in US Sport. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers ( Glazers cash cow) are basically crap and have been since Gruden pulled a rabbit out of his hat - dead last right now and have not been to the playoffs in 10 years - they are neck and neck with Chelsea today in value.

[The Woolster 2,416]

Mate.

 

Mate.  I mean, I like your optimism, but I would take 25m for Henderson, even in this market, in a second.  I get the "in this market he's worth double his actual worth" thing but I think his actual worth is probably about 15m so in this market he's worth 25m.  30m would be stretching it but I wouldn't have said anything at that figure.

 

But 50m is crazy.  He's 27 years old, in my opinion his decline is already started, given his injuries.  I think we should have sold him last summer and I desperately hope we do next summer because if he has another injury-plagued season we'll be lucky to get 15m for him in 2019.

 

What would 27 year old, 3 capped Drinkwater be worth in this market then?

[Gym Beglin 1,429]

I'd like to see Klopp build a team, like we thought he was going to.

 

We all talked about how he got in unknowns like Lewandowski, and turned them into cogs in a machine.  That appears to have been lost, and his 'cogs' now seem to cost upwards of £30m, and we don't get a fully functional machine. 

 

Kagawa, Hummels, Gundogan, Subotic, none of them cost over £3m.

 

Then Aubemeyang and Reus cost about £10m each.

 

If it's Zorc, fine, it's Zorc, get that bastard in.

 

Two of Klopp's shittest signings, for the money and impact at BVB, were Mkhitaryan and Immobile, and both have gone on to be brilliant players.

[Rick Sanchez C-137 5,853]

I'd like to see Klopp build a team, like we thought he was going to.

 

We all talked about how he got in unknowns like Lewandowski, and turned them into cogs in a machine.  That appears to have been lost, and his 'cogs' now seem to cost upwards of £30m, and we don't get a fully functional machine. 

 

Kagawa, Hummels, Gundogan, Subotic, none of them cost over £3m.

 

Then Aubemeyang and Reus cost about £10m each.

 

If it's Zorc, fine, it's Zorc, get that bastard in.

 

Two of Klopp's shittest signings, for the money and impact at BVB, were Mkhitaryan and Immobile, and both have gone on to be brilliant players.

 

He's building a team, he just seems to have forgotten about the back half

[liverpoolsno9 1,414]

I'd like to see Klopp build a team, like we thought he was going to.

 

We all talked about how he got in unknowns like Lewandowski, and turned them into cogs in a machine.  That appears to have been lost, and his 'cogs' now seem to cost upwards of £30m, and we don't get a fully functional machine. 

 

Kagawa, Hummels, Gundogan, Subotic, none of them cost over £3m.

 

Then Aubemeyang and Reus cost about £10m each.

 

If it's Zorc, fine, it's Zorc, get that bastard in.

 

Two of Klopp's shittest signings, for the money and impact at BVB, were Mkhitaryan and Immobile, and both have gone on to be brilliant players.

Interesting that you mention Zorc might be behind all the good signings and the shittest ones on Klopp?

[G Richards 4,267]

The point is well made about Klopp singing players for good value at Dortmund, particularly in the earlier days. 

 

To my mind it will be enormously difficult to replicate that sort of thing at LFC. When a Premier League club gets involved the price goes up. Then when it's one of the bigger Prem clubs, the price goes up even more. 

 

With that said, our key signing of the summer was Salah, and relatively speaking, we signed him for a very good price. 

[eeyore 176]

The point is well made about Klopp singing players for good value at Dortmund, particularly in the earlier days.

 

To my mind it will be enormously difficult to replicate that sort of thing at LFC. When a Premier League club gets involved the price goes up. Then when it's one of the bigger Prem clubs, the price goes up even more.

 

With that said, our key signing of the summer was Salah, and relatively speaking, we signed him for a very good price.

Maybe roma knew how shit he was at finishing

[ben48 274]

He's building a team, he just seems to have forgotten about the back half

He's one of the better managers in the game,no way has he forgotten the defense,they won't give him the money.All this " I can't find better players" smacks of desperation to me,they won't give him the money full stop.

[Barrington Womble 11,026]

The point that klopp signed good players on a budget at dortmund is what makes such a joke about VVD or nobody and that loser Moreno is still left back. For me it just illustrates klopp mustn't like the players the scouting team put in front of him.

[TheHowieLama 13,029]

The point that klopp signed good players on a budget at dortmund is what makes such a joke about VVD or nobody and that loser Moreno is still left back. For me it just illustrates klopp mustn't like the players the scouting team put in front of him.

 

Thats not good though Bar - that would mean the fella himself has no idea where to find a player and we do not have the infrastructure to support him the way Dortmund did.

[Barrington Womble 11,026]

Thats not good though Bar - that would mean the fella himself has no idea where to find a player and we do not have the infrastructure to support him the way Dortmund did.

I don't think in the modern game managers look at players anymore. I think they nearly all rely on their network and they can only be as good as the fellas working for them. Although I'm not sure Edwards and the scouting team work for klopp. For example, I'm pretty sure when we signed solanke, klopp claimed he'd never seen him play.

[SlugTrail 1,343]

Man city needed almost 600 million spent on players before they won the league, that was 10 years ago.

 

Today Newcastle probably need over a billion spent on their squad.

 

We probably need about 150-200 million spent on our squad plus we have a massive fan base globally with a much higher ceiling.

if we only spent 150 - 200m we would only get 2 players because of billionairs owner tax. We need at least 8 players.

[eeyore 176]

if we only spent 150 - 200m we would only get 2 players because of billionairs owner tax. We need at least 8 players.

Well on that logic Newcastle need an entire squad so would need 2 billion spent

[Red74 1,630]

If we were allowed nice things from our yacht owning über lords, id be shipping Sturridge and ings out and trying to see how much resolve Dortmund have in keeping aubameyang or see if Leipzig will do an early release for keita and Werner. We’re badly lacking a quality goal scoring striker.

 

They’re playing against each other tonight too.

[Lee909 13,019]

I was shouting for Aubameyang all summer when he was available. He would score a fucking boat load for us. Amd even with iur defense as it is we would have won every game bar City with him.

[Pidge 4,494]

The point that klopp signed good players on a budget at dortmund is what makes such a joke about VVD or nobody and that loser Moreno is still left back. For me it just illustrates klopp mustn't like the players the scouting team put in front of him.

 

Yeah, as you say I think he's a proper manager, in that he works with players.  If they put in the work and show the will to improve he'll be patient. To be fair, Moreno is making a good fist of it this season. Robertson has done all right when he has played (surely going to come in against Maribor) and will get a chance to win a place long term. Certainly wouldn't say Klopp doesn't rate him at this point.

 

Funnnee compared the current points situation to Kenny and Rodgers' last seasons.  I really hope we give Klopp the season like Kenny, rather than bombing him out like Rodgers.  If we get to the point where things need to change (and we're getting close) the best approach would be to get a proven DoF in who can focus on finding the right players through Edwards' "scouting" to fit Klopp's (and our) needs.  Fuck knows Edwards hasn't shown the ability to do it (and I'm not convinced it's the part of the job Klopp has the will to do).