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January 2018 Transfer Thread


Anubis
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I'd be pissed off if we gave that type of money out on a keeper. Plenty of decent keepers about for a lot less. No guarantee Oblak of Allison would be as good for us as they presently are for their clubs, both play a more defensively based game and have better defenders ahead of them than we have had over the last few seasons, although VVD should improve that. 

 

Disagree on that if we signed a player in the calibre of Oblak we would have a genuine tilt at winning the league next season. 

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Guest Pistonbroke

Playing devil's advocate, for the same money who do you think improves us more , Oblak or Lemar ?

 

Hard to say, neither would be my choice for that type of money. I also trust Klopp's judgement more on attack minded players than Keepers. I honestly believe we could get a decent keeper for 30 million, probably a lot less. We just need to be more diligent in how we scout them. It would help if we decided to look at keepers who play in teams who play in a similar fashion to ourselves. It is not just outfield players who have to fit the shape of the team. 

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Guest Pistonbroke

Key word there, decent. How many points do Utd and Chelsea gain from having De Gea and Courtois in goal?

 

Now i dont know about Allison, but certainly Oblak wouldnt have let in at least 25% of the goals Mignolet and Karius let in. I have no problem what so ever if we met the release clause for Oblak. Its by far the weakest part of our team and its important we adress that. Going from Lovren and Mignolet/Karius to Van Dijk and Oblak would be an incredible improvement and do more good for us than strengthening elsewhere.

 

 

Disagree on that if we signed a player in the calibre of Oblak we would have a genuine tilt at winning the league next season. 

 

How do you know Oblak will fit the way we play? He didn't fit in at Benfica who play similar to the way we do in the Portuguese league. He was loaned out from them before signing for A Madrid. They play a defensive based game and have very good defenders, Oblak is good, yes, but no guarantee he would be the same for us, paying a 100 million for a keeper is a huge fucking risk. 

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How do you know Oblak will fit the way we play? He didn't fit in at Benfica who play similar to the way we do in the Portuguese league. He was loaned out from them before signing for A Madrid. They play a defensive based game and have very good defenders, Oblak is good, yes, but no guarantee he would be the same for us, paying a 100 million for a keeper is a huge fucking risk.

Defensive based game yes, but it still doesnt take away from the fact that he isnt prone to these howlers Karius and Mignolet is. And also how old was he when he came in at Atletico? 21? And he has been magnificent since then. We can look at systems all day long but fact of the matter is, when they do conceed chances he is there for them. Unlike our goalkeepers.

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Guest Pistonbroke

Defensive based game yes, but it still doesnt take away from the fact that he isnt prone to these howlers Karius and Mignolet is. And also how old was he when he came in at Atletico? 21? And he has been magnificent since then. We can look at systems all day long but fact of the matter is, when they do conceed chances he is there for them. Unlike our goalkeepers.

 

Loads of keepers aren't prone to the howlers our two jokers are, they wouldn't cost a fortune either. Paying the money quoted for Oblak is madness imo, but it is all about opinions. 

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How do you know Oblak will fit the way we play? He didn't fit in at Benfica who play similar to the way we do in the Portuguese league. He was loaned out from them before signing for A Madrid. They play a defensive based game and have very good defenders, Oblak is good, yes, but no guarantee he would be the same for us, paying a 100 million for a keeper is a huge fucking risk. 

 

 

Defensive based game yes, but it still doesnt take away from the fact that he isnt prone to these howlers Karius and Mignolet is. And also how old was he when he came in at Atletico? 21? And he has been magnificent since then. We can look at systems all day long but fact of the matter is, when they do conceed chances he is there for them. Unlike our goalkeepers.

 

 

Loads of keepers aren't prone to the howlers our two jokers are, they wouldn't cost a fortune either. Paying the money quoted for Oblak is madness imo, but it is all about opinions. 

 

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I would tend to agree with PB. I would much rather spend 100m of the Phil money on a top midfielder and the remaining 40m on a keeper than the other way around (if it had to come down to such a choice). I would back a team with a world-class midfield and a decent keeper to finish ahead of one with a world-class keeper and a decent midfield all year long. 40m should really be enough to get a quality keeper in anyway.

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Guest Pistonbroke

I'll use it again as an example. Werder Bremen paid about 2 million for that Czech keeper Jiri Pavlenka, 25yo, 6'5", brave, athletic and dominates his box when called upon. He's been the best keeper in the Bundesliga this season imo, despite playing for a shit team. He's made something like 70 odd saves from the 90 he has faced on target. 2 fucking Million. 

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I want Oblak also - but Piston makes a good point - Oblak replaced Courtois and came from Benfica after one good season, same with Alisson, so why are we not looking at other options? Neither of those keepers have been first team starters with big clubs since a young age - it was scouting that found them. 

 

But, looking at our team. You could argue the above for all players - and I think we need a keeper more than we need Lemar. 

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I'll use it again as an example. Werder Bremen paid about 2 million for that Czech keeper Jiri Pavlenka, 25yo, 6'5", brave, athletic and dominates his box when called upon. He's been the best keeper in the Bundesliga this season imo, despite playing for a shit team. He's made something like 70 odd saves from the 90 he has faced on target. 2 fucking Million. 

 

But isn't that kind of like the Tom Heaton logic?

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I want Oblak also - but Piston makes a good point - Oblak replaced Courtois and came from Benfica after one good season, same with Alisson, so why are we not looking at other options? Neither of those keepers have been first team starters with big clubs since a young age - it was scouting that found them. 

 

But, looking at our team. You could argue the above for all players - and I think we need a keeper more than we need Lemar. 

 

I tend to agree with you. If we are talking good scouting then you would seriously have to consider that Nick Pope at Burnley. I can almost here lots of people wailing about buying him though saying he's untried etc etc. Well how do you find them if you do not scout them in those circumstances. We either pay shitloads for a high profile keeper or you scout and get someone in who looks on an upward trend before someone else snaps them up.

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Keepers who play for shit teams often look better than they are, as do keepers who play for very defensive teams.

 

We would be absolutely mad to pay 100m for Oblak. We have to be smarter than that.

 

Not sure about that to be honest - De Gea and Courtois came from the same club as Oblak! The problem with what you are saying is that clubs like Barca, Real, PSG don't need good keepers as they very rarely are called upon. 

 

I suspect Mignolet would do for Real Madrid. 

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Guest Pistonbroke

Keepers who play for shit teams often look better than they are, as do keepers who play for very defensive teams.

 

We would be absolutely mad to pay 100m for Oblak. We have to be smarter than that.

 

 

But isn't that kind of like the Tom Heaton logic?

 

Not really, Bremen's main problem is that they don't score enough. They've only let in 21 goals all season but have scored a whole 14! Only Bayern and Frankfurt have let in less goals, only Koln have scored less. If Bremen had a better forward line they would easily be in the top half of the table, comfortably. Looking at the stats for shots against they are about average with most teams. I've watched this lad every weekend on highlights and a few full matches and he is very good. 

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I tend to agree with you. If we are talking good scouting then you would seriously have to consider that Nick Pope at Burnley. I can almost here lots of people wailing about buying him though saying he's untried etc etc. Well how do you find them if you do not scout them in those circumstances. We either pay shitloads for a high profile keeper or you scout and get someone in who looks on an upward trend before someone else snaps them up.

 

Not sure about Pope, nor Butland for that matter - but yep, I think scouting is something we should not be ignoring. Same with players, Robertson and Gomez have proved the quality is there - although as Robertson has proved - some of our bellend fans need to check their whinging. 

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I dont quite follow. While i do think we could use improvements in midield too, its been semi adressed already with Keita and im sure we have someone else in mind too regardless of what happens with Can. The two biggest flaws we have/had are easily goalkeeper and central defense.

We have adressed CB. And we will adress goalkeeper. If we had the chance to sign one of the top 4-5 goalkeepers in the world, we should take it. And as long as we can afford it i have no issues with it what so ever. Infact i struggle to see how signing a midfielder would help us more since we loose games because of howlers from Lovren or our trolls in goal.

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Better how? Makes fewer saves per game, claims the ball significantly less successfully, we win fewer points with him, we concede more goals with him... what is it that people think Mignolet is doing better?

 

Saves per game is not a stat to judge keepers by as it takes no account of shots per match, or shot quality faced

 

I've not seen any stats for this season, but previously they have shown that Karius is one of the most passive keepers when it comes to claiming crosses, I think he only comes when he is sure he is going to catch it. Mignolet however is one of the more aggressive ones if memory serves, however he elects to punch the ball the vast majority of times, which would effect his claim success rate. Personally, I would prefer someone who punches a lot over someone who doesn't come at all.

 

And I don't think wowy analysis (with or without you) works here as Karius has generally played against inferior opposition, and has played so few games that any stats have very little significance anyway.

 

Both keepers, I think, have been affected by what happens in front of them, and they are probably both better than the eyes and the stats suggest, but to me, Karius looks like he is not really good at anything other than sweeper keeping and have much more confidence in Mignolet.

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