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7 hours ago, Red Shift said:

You can can throw that accusation at a few players, but the fact is some get to start in spite of it, some don’t.

 

Judging by the accumulated injury list, we seem to scout talent, but not robustness. Either that or Klopp is guilty of not enough rotation or the coaches overwork the players. Whatever it is, it needs to be identified & sorted. I’ll tell you what it isn’t. It isn’t bad luck.

Or maybe we scout robustness and believe we have the best medical team who can change that. But even if that is the case, the big issue is we persevere with so many of them instead of cutting our losses when we know they're frail. If we had in our squad say matip and thiago who are injury prone, then you can deal with it. We just have too many players who can't be relied on to get on the pitch. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I reckon the medical staff additions were about marginal gains. But even with marginal gains, you are expecting to see improvement. 

 

Naby wasn't the best midfielder in Germany when klopp was there. He only played there for 2 season and 1 of them he was already slated to be a Liverpool player. I think klopp has a soft spot for him as he can see what he does in training. As I said earlier, I think keita is just too much of a shithouse to take the training field to the match. 

 

I dunno what was wrong with Hendo on Monday. I didn't actually know he was injured till Tuesday when I read it on here (I knew Gomez missed because of injury). But it took seconds to see Hendo wasn't right when he came on imo as he wasn't running properly and quite often he was limping. They may have had stats too, but I'm sure klopp or the coaching team must have been able to see it. Ljinders has said in the past Henderson is a player who will always tell you he is ok. 

I recall Klopp making the comment about Naby when we signed him and compared him directly to Thiago as the two best at the time or words to that effect. Anyway it doesn't really matter cause he hasn't done it here.

 

Yeah, it's a fair point about Hendo. Now I think about it I am sure someone even said he was feeling his calf during the Fulham game.

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3 minutes ago, HBenn said:

I recall Klopp making the comment about Naby when we signed him and compared him directly to Thiago as the two best at the time or words to that effect. Anyway it doesn't really matter cause he hasn't done it here.

 

Yeah, it's a fair point about Hendo. Now I think about it I am sure someone even said he was feeling his calf during the Fulham game.

Sure keita played in Germany at the same.time as thiago, just klopp wasn't there at the time, he was here. But as you say, it doesn't matter. He's not good enough. 

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26 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Or maybe we scout robustness and believe we have the best medical team who can change that. But even ifnthat is the case, the big issue is we persevere with so many of them instead of cutting our losses when we know they're frail. If we had in our squad say matip and thiago who are injury prone, then you can deal with it. We just have too many players who can't be relied on to get on the pitch. 

 

 

That is one of my biggest frustrations. Sure you cannot guarantee any player will stay fit as many of shown examples of players that have not had issues before arriving here but there is a huge dataset now that show some of our players cannot stay fit. It's not just one season, it's 2, 3 maybe 4.

 

I do wonder whether the fitness of the entire squad gave them possibly false hope that it wouldn't be an issue now though. The Ox, Naby and Matip were all fit for the 2nd half of the season and they probably felt that it was because of the practices that Schlumberger and this analytics company had put in place and that would just continue into the new season. 

 

You feel something has cracked off behind the scenes though with the doc and all these issues. Ian Doyle was asked about it in the q&a yesterday and swerved it.

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2 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Sure keita played in Germany at the same.time as thiago, just klopp wasn't there at the time, he was here. But as you say, it doesn't matter. He's not good enough. 

Yeah, I think I got that bit wrong. Agree though he hasn't been good enough and while I will give a player slack if I think they are trying, these periodic comments that seem to come from his agent suggest he has an oversized ego and so he can get stuffed.

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Keita, is a really strange player. He has had some high profile stinkers for us Real Madrid away 2021 and Atletico last year in the group stage despite scoring a corker.

 

But, our win record when he is on the pitch is absolutely phenomenal, I feel we are a lot more fluent and cohesive with him in the side. He’s a lovely footballer.

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1 hour ago, Pete said:

When Naby moves on I wish him the best of luck wherever he ends up, and it's shame it just didn't work out for him here. At least he won a few things whilst here.  We've lost better players who won fuck all with us. 

Usually I say that about most players - it didn't work out, good luck etc - but in Naby's case I won't even give a fuck when he fucks off. All I want to know is that he is gone and we have bought someone (anyone) to replace him.

 

Even signing top players do not work out sometimes as we have found out ourselves in many cases. But what is unforgivable is players not giving everything when they step on to the pitch. We loved Kuyt even when he didn't score much because he always worked his bollocks off. Same for Lucas. And many more players. 

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17 minutes ago, LFC 6 Times said:

Keita, is a really strange player. He has had some high profile stinkers for us Real Madrid away 2021 and Atletico last year in the group stage despite scoring a corker.

 

But, our win record when he is on the pitch is absolutely phenomenal, I feel we are a lot more fluent and cohesive with him in the side. He’s a lovely footballer.

Our win record is phenomenal..

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50 minutes ago, LFC 6 Times said:

But, our win record when he is on the pitch is absolutely phenomenal, I feel we are a lot more fluent and cohesive with him in the side. He’s a lovely footballer.

I really don't see that. The win record thing is incidental as we're probably winning those games anyway and resting one of Fabinho/Henderson/Thiago. I can't be arsed checking, but I assume we didn't start him in the league against Manchester City last year, for example?

 

Of course, if Thiago wasn't such a complete sicknote himself this thread wouldn't be so prominent. Henderson and Fabinho aren't exactly made of iron either. We badly need a central midfielder who is top quality and doesn't fall apart every couple of games.  

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1 hour ago, LFC 6 Times said:

Keita, is a really strange player. He has had some high profile stinkers for us Real Madrid away 2021 and Atletico last year in the group stage despite scoring a corker.

 

But, our win record when he is on the pitch is absolutely phenomenal, I feel we are a lot more fluent and cohesive with him in the side. He’s a lovely footballer.

Not being facetious but what about him makes him a lovely footballer to you? I don't see it but I do hear people say it so he must have something that I am missing 

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11 minutes ago, HBenn said:

Not being facetious but what about him makes him a lovely footballer to you? I don't see it but I do hear people say it so he must have something that I am missing 

He’s absolutely maddening, his fitness record and his propensity for “illness” absolutely fucking wrecks my head. But when he’s fit, I think he fits really well into the side. He can carry the ball well and moves the ball quickly and doesn’t over complicate it, he has an excellent touch and is good in tight spaces, links well with the front players, his pressing is superb, and he has a bit of magic in him, for reference his goal at Newcastle, Atletico, Chelsea 2020 at home, palace last season away at OT last season to break the deadlock. 

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4 minutes ago, LFC 6 Times said:

He’s absolutely maddening, his fitness record and his propensity for “illness” absolutely fucking wrecks my head. But when he’s fit, I think he fits really well into the side. He can carry the ball well and moves the ball quickly and doesn’t over complicate it, he has an excellent touch and is good in tight spaces, links well with the front players, his pressing is superb, and he has a bit of magic in him, for reference his goal at Newcastle, Atletico, Chelsea 2020 at home, palace last season away at OT last season to break the deadlock. 

Yea but he's a pussy

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I thought he was ok to good between (& including) the domestic cup finals last season. I can remember posting about how much he'd improved after some of the games & he'd definitely become more adept at the physical side of the game. A lot of the goodwill towards him (not that there was much) seemed to disappear when he skied that chance towards the end of the Champions League final.

 

Personally, I'd be happy to see the back of him though. The midfield is a mess and he's a major factor in that.

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42 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

I was made up when we signed him, championed him before and after but even I gave up on him. Him and Chamberlain should have been shown the door a while back.

 

Quite a lot of us were in the same camp. I was desperately looking for positives during the 1st season but gave him the benefit - new culture, new league etc etc.....the usual benefit bollocks that crap millionaire footballers get.

 

I was more hopeful at the start of his 2nd, but by the middle of his 2nd season it was clear to me that we can never ever rely on him. The attitude just was not there and it was just getting worse. 

 

I am more pissed off with the club though, he needed binning at the start of last season but he is still there and there is fucking noise of a new contract. 

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1 hour ago, Mook said:

I thought he was ok to good between (& including) the domestic cup finals last season. I can remember posting about how much he'd improved after some of the games & he'd definitely become more adept at the physical side of the game. A lot of the goodwill towards him (not that there was much) seemed to disappear when he skied that chance towards the end of the Champions League final.

 

Personally, I'd be happy to see the back of him though. The midfield is a mess and he's a major factor in that.

I think he should go...but if we aren't going to replace him then of course he has to stay.....even with his poor reliability/availability he is better than nothing....we are struggling badly enough with availability.

 

Will be interesting next summer if we don't do anything in Jan and if his situation does not improve...

 

We'll be looking at pretty major surgery all in one hit on our midfield given situations with others in there as well.

 

Feels to me we should be starting it now to ensure it is a smoother, more phased process.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Carra_is_legend said:

Quite a lot of us were in the same camp. I was desperately looking for positives during the 1st season but gave him the benefit - new culture, new league etc etc.....the usual benefit bollocks that crap millionaire footballers get.

 

I was more hopeful at the start of his 2nd, but by the middle of his 2nd season it was clear to me that we can never ever rely on him. The attitude just was not there and it was just getting worse. 

 

I am more pissed off with the club though, he needed binning at the start of last season but he is still there and there is fucking noise of a new contract. 

Just not up to it sadly for us.

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