Naby Keita

[TheHowieLama]

9 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Thiago? He has a terrible injury record. Everyone knew he was a crock before he arrived. 

I no longer know what is a terrible injury record given some of the fellas we have but looking at his last 4 seasons at Bayern he missed 28 out of 136 league games due to injury. 

 

Keita is 33 out of 114 for last three seasons.

 

Matip is 58 out of 190 over his four full seasons. So basically out 1/3 of the time.

[Barrington Womble]

43 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I no longer know what is a terrible injury record given some of the fellas we have but looking at his last 4 seasons at Bayern he missed 28 out of 136 league games due to injury. 

 

Keita is 33 out of 114 for last three seasons.

 

Matip is 58 out of 190 over his four full seasons. So basically out 1/3 of the time.

He's 30 and still hasn't managed 250 appearances in teams that play 50+ matches per season. 

 

Keita and matip are also crocks. This is part of our problem, we've half a squad of people with those types of injury records. 

 

As a fair comparison, fabinho is younger, played more games and I would say is an is average where injury is concerned. He's no Salah or gini, he is just someone who has a couple of small issues a year. 

 

And @3 Stacks - it doesn't matter why he's always injured. He just always is. Nobody says, no worries, 3 points for you next week because your man is injured through being a bit reckless. 

 

[3 Stacks]

9 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

He's 30 and still hasn't managed 250 appearances in teams that play 50+ matches per season. 

 

Keita and matip are also crocks. This is part of our problem, we've half a squad of people with those types of injury records. 

 

As a fair comparison, fabinho is younger, played more games and I would say is an is average where injury is concerned. He's no Salah or gini, he is just someone who has a couple of small issues a year. 

 

And @3 Stacks - it doesn't matter why he's always injured. He just always is. Nobody says, no worries, 3 points for you next week because your man is injured through being a bit reckless. 

 

I wasn't arguing the manner of his injuries meant anything. It was just a comment.

 

He was available for the most important part of last season and was good also during that time. That was my point, he's not been a total liability on that front.

[Lee909]

With Fabinho out moving to a 2 deeper set up would likely help us. Play Thiago and Hendo together with one ahead of them. 

[TheHowieLama]

9 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

He's 30 and still hasn't managed 250 appearances in teams that play 50+ matches per season. 

 

Keita and matip are also crocks. This is part of our problem, we've half a squad of people with those types of injury records. 

 

As a fair comparison, fabinho is younger, played more games and I would say is an is average where injury is concerned. He's no Salah or gini, he is just someone who has a couple of small issues a year. 

 

 

 

Is Henderson a crock?  He has missed more than Thiago over the last 5 seasons.

 

He is actually pretty close to Fabinho. He has missed 20% of league games while here, Fabinho has missed 15%.

[El Rojo]

1 hour ago, stringvest said:

His appearance record prior to joining LFC would tend to suggest otherwise.

Not really bothered about how ever-present he was for Bayern. Keita was more available for Leipzig before he arrived too.

Maybe we’ve been unlucky in bringing in a couple of midfielders who can’t cope with the physical demands of playing in a Klopp team.

 

(And recklessly stupid in getting rid of the one midfielder who could be relied on throughout the season.)

[KMD7]

1 hour ago, Boss said:

I agree with that actually. I think Fabinho, Thiago and Keita is our best midfield. 

Brilliant midfield that, just the injuries...

[coachpotato]

Craig Hignett on Radio Merseyside last night said that Bellingham was in the bag, he couldn’t say who his source was (hmmm) but it was happening.

I know, I know, but if it’s true, then we would appear to be changing the guard in midfield with the likes of Jones (20), Elliot(18) and Bellingham (17) to a much younger profile.

It would at least show the club has recognised the need to move on (probably) Milner, Henderson and Chamberlain for age/unreliability reasons, possibly Thiago as well as he’s 30 and injury prone.

Keita is 26 and cost £52m, he has finally shown some form, Klopp appears to like him, so he’s likely to stay.

Fab is just turned 27 and our best midfielder IMHO,  probably one of the first names on the team sheet when fit.

There’s couple of the kids who’ve look promising and who might step up into squad places to maintain numbers such as Conor Bradley.

Problem is that right now we’re down to bare bones and so perhaps the need is to either draft in defenders to cover in midfield, or change formation to make use of who we have got fit.

I could see an argument to move Trent into midfield and play Williams or Gomez at right back, which could strengthen our defensive cover in an area many teams target us, and allow Trent to still use his undoubted attacking skills. 
We could try three centre backs as we have an abundance there (oh the irony!) and go 3-4-3 or 3-5-2. Yet, we’re still unbeaten, but while draws are better than losses, they’ll damage us, as we’ve seen in the past. Losing one, drawing one and winning one is better than drawing three.

Despite all the above, Klopp never appears to be panicking and if he isn’t then maybe we shouldn’t be either.

[Barrington Womble]

7 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I wasn't arguing the manner of his injuries meant anything. It was just a comment.

 

He was available for the most important part of last season and was good also during that time. That was my point, he's not been a total liability on that front.

Is there a most important part when you're not playing in finals? 3 points are 3 points regardless of if you get them in August or April. 

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Is Henderson a crock?  He has missed more than Thiago over the last 5 seasons.

 

He is actually pretty close to Fabinho. He has missed 20% of league games while here, Fabinho has missed 15%.

I think Henderson misses more games as he gets older and I'm absolutely expecting him to be out soon, he's due an injury. What skews a lot of his figures if you are looking season on season (I haven't but imagine it's the case) is he tends to have big injuries. So when you say he misses a bit more than fabinho, that's because he has some pretty big injuries, which also brings with it a longer arc back to match fitness.

 

I said when the season started, I don't think any of our midfielders are reliable enough. Without tracking your posts, I think you've said keita misses 30 odd percent. Thiago must be similar. Henderson 20-odd and milner who you haven't mentioned misses lots by covering other positions and that's before we talk about injuries. It becomes pretty clear to see when klopp likes to rotate his midfield, coupled with almost booked in injuries and players like chamberlain who nobody wants on the pitch, why despite going into the season with 7 players we're inevitably going to have spells where we don't have enough players. This is why shrugging shoulders when gini left because maybe his best asset was being fit, you quickly see why that's a good asset to have. 

 

 

[3 Stacks]

1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

Is there a most important part when you're not playing in finals? 3 points are 3 points regardless of if you get them in August or April. 

 

 

 

Err, yes? Games are obviously more urgent at the end of the season than at the beginning if you're fighting for something, which we were.

[VladimirIlyich]

Henderson is his own worst enemy because of his involvement with the ingerlund brigade. I doubt he'll be anywhere near this level,if playing at all,when he is Milner's age. Milner made the right decision to fuck England off while Henderson looks like he never will,to his own detriment.

[TheHowieLama]

16 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

s

I think you've said keita misses 30 odd percent. Thiago must be similar. Henderson 20-odd and milner who you haven't mentioned misses lots by covering other positions and that's before we talk about injuries.

 

 

League:

 

Matip - 31% over 5 seasons LFC

Keita - 29% over 4 seasons LFC

Henderson - 22% over 5 seasons LFC

Thiago - 21% over last three seasons

Fabinho - 15% over three seasons LFC

 

 

The durability of our front three has been ridiculous. Robertson and TAA as well.

 

[an tha]

20 minutes ago, coachpotato said:

 

Problem is that right now we’re down to bare bones and so perhaps the need is to either draft in defenders to cover in midfield, or change formation to make use of who we have got fit.

I could see an argument to move Trent into midfield and play Williams or Gomez at right back,

I feel this would end up like what happened last season when we played our midfield in the cente half positions....weakening several positions rather than just one.

[Barrington Womble]

28 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Err, yes? Games are obviously more urgent at the end of the season than at the beginning if you're fighting for something, which we were.

Oh shit. I forgot you got double points near the end of the year. 

[coachpotato]

12 minutes ago, an tha said:

I feel this would end up like what happened last season when we played our midfield in the cente half positions....weakening several positions rather than just one.

But we’ve got a right back to cover Trent, and Gomez has played there for us and England, he could even be put into midfield to cover there, the difference is that even if we put square pegs into round holes in midfield, we still have round pegs in round holes behind them whereas last season we weakened both midfield and back four through injuries and moving midfielders back there.

[3 Stacks]

11 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Oh shit. I forgot you got double points near the end of the year. 

You're doing the thing where the people you don't like don't ever do anything right or deserve any credit. That's fine, I know you.

 

I mean your argument is just ridiculous. Of course games count more at the end of the season.

[an tha]

6 minutes ago, coachpotato said:

But we’ve got a right back to cover Trent, and Gomez has played there for us and England, he could even be put into midfield to cover there, the difference is that even if we put square pegs into round holes in midfield, we still have round pegs in round holes behind them whereas last season we weakened both midfield and back four through injuries and moving midfielders back there.

I don't like Gomez at right back...and Williams is not going to be good enough IMHO.

 

I do see what you are getting at and i understand, but for me it isn't the answer.

 

Of course if the situation with our midfielders continues or gets worse we may end up seeing it.

 

I am dreading weds watching the 3 who played most of game v brighton play v atletico they are absolutely horrible as a 3...have a feeling they may too as fabinho is unlikely to be fit and feel he may not risk thiago ahead of a big game at weekend.

[coachpotato]

1 minute ago, an tha said:

I don't like Gomez at right back...and Williams is not going to be good enough IMHO.

 

I do see what you are getting at and i understand, but for me it isn't the answer.

 

Of course if the situation with our midfielders continues or gets worse we may end up seeing it.

Ideal world perhaps, but maybe we’ll see some returning soon and keeping themselves fit! 

[an tha]

3 minutes ago, coachpotato said:

Ideal world perhaps, but maybe we’ll see some returning soon and keeping themselves fit! 

Let's hope so....sadly i wouldn't bet on the keeping themselves fit part.

[Barrington Womble]

55 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

You're doing the thing where the people you don't like don't ever do anything right or deserve any credit. That's fine, I know you.

 

I mean your argument is just ridiculous. Of course games count more at the end of the season.

I don't understand praising a player because he's fit in April and may but not in November and December. It's stupid..injured is injured. Points are points no matter when they're won. If we lose the league this year by 2 points, the 2 points yesterday will be as important as any other points we drop along the way. 

[Reckoner]

This international break after West Ham will come at a lovely time for us.

Hopefully Thiago and Fabinho will be back after it, with 2 weeks of full training. If Thiago joins up with Spain though I’d be mightily pissed off. He’s unlikely to play before then as that would mean he would fly off with Spain.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

 

I mean your argument is just ridiculous. Of course games count more at the end of the season.

They literally don't; unless your last three games happen to be against your closest rivals, every game - get this - is worth three points.

[3 Stacks]

7 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

They literally don't; unless your last three games happen to be against your closest rivals, every game - get this - is worth three points.

Fucking hell.

[an tha]

31 minutes ago, Reckoner said:

This international break after West Ham will come at a lovely time for us.

Hopefully Thiago and Fabinho will be back after it, with 2 weeks of full training. If Thiago joins up with Spain though I’d be mightily pissed off. He’s unlikely to play before then as that would mean he would fly off with Spain.

Fabinho playing all Brazil's 26 games in break and especially the one that finishes about half hour before our game v arsenal kicks off worries me most.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

4 hours ago, stringvest said:

Thiago wins more ball than anyone in the team when he plays.  Despite his luck with injuries, he's not made of crisps. Fabinho and Thiago in the team, we're not getting opened up like we've seen over the course of the last few weeks, and you can play a much more creative third mf - Elliot, or Keita with licence to roam. 

Fully agree with this.