Naby Keita

[Bjornebye]

2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

There's a graph posted literally 2 pages ago. 

It only shows Keitas stats. 

[3 Stacks]

21 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

It only shows Keitas stats. 

You do realize that if a part of the radar is filled up to the end it means that player is doing that action at a world class level? In the one I posted, Keita's graph is basically a perfect circle except for the "turnovers" part.

[Bjornebye]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

You do realize that if a part of the radar is filled up to the end it means that player is doing that action at a world class level? In the one I posted, Keita's graph is basically a perfect circle except for the "turnovers" part.

I honestly couldn't give a fuck. 

[VladimirIlyich]

4 hours ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

Don’t buy the repeated injury shouts as reason to persist for another season, if his availability and form don’t pick up sharply during the run-in. Quite the opposite. The constant injuries and less than consistent performances are inextricably linked. Not going to demonise him for it, it’s really unlucky and will be a huge shame if he can’t make it happen. Looked a real class act in patches.
 

Klopp isn’t a stockpile players in the same position manager though. In my opinion, he either becomes consistent in fitness and performance and we have use of that sort of player, he doesn’t and we don’t, or he doesn’t and we replace him with someone else. Be very surprised if he stays at his current level and we keep him but bring in someone of a similar profile.

If Klopp doesn't tolerate consistently injured players then how has Lallana lasted so long? And despite him getting into some form,the Ox too? Gomez and Matip have poor records on that score as well.

[3 Stacks]

11 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I honestly couldn't give a fuck. 

Cool. Riveting discussion, as always.

[clockspeed]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

You do realize that if a part of the radar is filled up to the end it means that player is doing that action at a world class level? In the one I posted, Keita's graph is basically a perfect circle except for the "turnovers" part.

Have not seen the graph however any indicator that points to Keita being world class at anything would render the data or analysis as flawed. I accept you like using this type of analysis but has anything you have seen in the flesh convinced you that Naby has world class traits ?  A dribble here, a pass there, pleasing to the eye all fleeting moments not that of a full ninety minute world class performer. 

[3 Stacks]

2 minutes ago, clockspeed said:

Have not seen the graph however any indicator that points to Keita being world class at anything would render the data or analysis as flawed. I accept you like using this type of analysis but has anything you have seen in the flesh convinced you that Naby has world class traits ?  A dribble here, a pass there, pleasing to the eye all fleeting moments not that of a full ninety minute world class performer. 

 

16 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

This will contradict the two posts from myself on this page, but the more I watch him, the more I dislike him. I feel like he is good on the stat sheet, but he lacks something intangible.

 

There's a lack of athleticism and intensity from him that I don't like. He wins the ball and passes it better than Chamberlain, but I would rarely say he has more of an impact than Chamberlain. 

I said this a couple pages back.

[Dr Nowt]

13 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

If Klopp doesn't tolerate consistently injured players then how has Lallana lasted so long? And despite him getting into some form,the Ox too? Gomez and Matip have poor records on that score as well.

I haven’t said Klopp doesn’t tolerate consistently injured players. You appear to be presuming.

[clockspeed]

1 minute ago, 3 Stacks said:

 

I said this a couple pages back.

Fair enough . On another note although I am a big fan of Havertz I now (based on Keita) experience not sure if he would fit in to our style of play. 

[Bjornebye]

We need more pointless graphs and bollocks please. 

 

As for Keita, we know he has it in his locker to be brilliant but he just can't hack the speed and physicality of the Prem. He would do great in France/Italy and obviously Germany. I just can't see it happening for him here. You can point at injuries etc but he has had his chances. I hope I'm wrong of course. 

[VladimirIlyich]

4 minutes ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

I haven’t said Klopp doesn’t tolerate consistently injured players. You appear to be presuming.

'Klopp doesn't stockpile players' is the assumption I used based on your words. That seems to mean that somebody has to go,but I disagree with that given the options we currently have of first team midfielders. Lallana not withstanding of course.

[Dr Nowt]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

We need more pointless graphs and bollocks please. 

 

As for Keita, we know he has it in his locker to be brilliant but he just can't hack the speed and physicality of the Prem. He would do great in France/Italy and obviously Germany. I just can't see it happening for him here. You can point at injuries etc but he has had his chances. I hope I'm wrong of course. 

If Klopp doesn’t like graphs and bollocks why does he have a laptop?

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

If Klopp doesn’t like graphs and bollocks why does he have a laptop?

Germany is the porn capital of the world. Plus he likes watching videos of Cats getting frightened on YouTube. 

[Anubis]

1 hour ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

If Klopp doesn’t like graphs and bollocks why does he have a laptop?

To access the Man City scouting network...

[Ne Moe Imya]

Even if Klopp has his doubts, there is no way Edwards is going to be on board for selling Keita.

 

He has had injury problems, and I agree that something "looks" off when you watch the team play, but statistically he has been excellent. Progresses the ball (far better than our other midfielders, and this is important!), tackles, goal contributions, passes into the box, etc.

 

My personal opinion is that he hasn't quite grasped what Klopp wants him to do as a midfielder. Our team is structured so differently than most with the ball progression coming much more from the fullbacks, and then the midfield is more defensive to cover the fullbacks, that it's probably quite different to anything else Keita would have played in. Others have shown the ability to adapt, eventually (Fabinho, for example) but despite his excellent actual play on the ball, Keita still seems to struggle with decision-making. When to stay, when to go, etc.

 

I still think he'll come good, but he really does need to make better decisions. It would also help some if the media (the Echo in particular) didn't take every opportunity to scapegoat him, but some of it is on his head as well.

[Bjornebye]

 

 

Exhibit L

 

 

 

[Jairzinho]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 

 

Exhibit L

 

 

 

That the Brexit plan?

[Guest Alex_K]

2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

 

I said this a couple pages back.

All for statistics to add insight - but according to the PL site Keita has 3 goals and 2 assists in 34 league appearances. For a midfielder who is typically in the furthest-forward spot I'm not sure how that can qualify as being world class, or even semi-decent? Cantwell - for example - has 6 goals and 2 assists in 27 appearances. Grealish has 7 goals and 6 assists this season alone - again, less appearances. In the grand scheme of things Cantwell & Grealish are both pretty ordinary - when you start to go up the tree it looks uglier still. It doesn't feel like Keita has been particularly unlucky either -- that is, it doesn't feel like he's creating all of these incredible chances that are being fluffed by others. Maybe that is way off the mark, but on the face of it the metrics look pretty ordinary.

[3 Stacks]

18 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

All for statistics to add insight - but according to the PL site Keita has 3 goals and 2 assists in 34 league appearances. For a midfielder who is typically in the furthest-forward spot I'm not sure how that can qualify as being world class, or even semi-decent? Cantwell - for example - has 6 goals and 2 assists in 27 appearances. Grealish has 7 goals and 6 assists this season alone - again, less appearances. In the grand scheme of things Cantwell & Grealish are both pretty ordinary - when you start to go up the tree it looks uglier still. It doesn't feel like Keita has been particularly unlucky either -- that is, it doesn't feel like he's creating all of these incredible chances that are being fluffed by others. Maybe that is way off the mark, but on the face of it the metrics look pretty ordinary.

It's not the goals and assists, it's the ball progression (forward passing through the lines), pressures, key passes. Things like that where per 90 minutes he is up there with any midfielder in the world. Those are things that are better than goals and assists to determine how well a midfielder is doing. It's more in line with what a midfielder is generally asked to contribute.

 

My problem with Keita is that despite all that, when I watch him, and I'm clearly not the only one, I feel there's something missing. Whether it's his intensity, his attitude on the pitch, I don't know. That's the discrepancy with him; people will look at the numbers and tell you he's doing as well as almost anyone, but the feeling you get when watching him is different, not in a good way.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Jurgen needs to sort himself out. A few of you on here have a duty to contact him and put him straight. I did over Karius and look where that went. No need for thanks.

[an tha]

8 hours ago, Nolongerathletic said:

Well he should be overjoyed with that given his performances over the last few seasons. Strangely enough, he does seem to play ok in certain games, in the Barca 1st leg last year he looked like the best player on the pitch until that rat Rakitic tackled him from behind. Having said that he was only on the pitch for 25 mins or so... he seems to start brightly and then gets progressively worse.

 

I can't see many takers for him at minute...maybe Leipzig would have him back...perhaps as part of a Werner deal. In the end I think Klopp is a fan and will persist with him...if he is to improve, he has the best manager in the world to help him do so.

 

 

Yeah fair...but as i say for me he's alright as a bit part player here to give us decent depth...and if he improves then great

[VladimirIlyich]

Who is this Cantwell fucker everybody is going on about? He sure as hell doesn't play for the european and world champions with a 20 odd point lead in the league. Fuck him.

[TheHowieLama]

6 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Plus he likes watching videos of Cats getting fingered on YouTube. 

 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

If Klopp doesn’t like graphs and bollocks why does he have a laptop?

How else would he get on here to see the graphs? 

[LF:D]

I find it hard that people can't be impressed with him when they watch.

 

But removing that bias or perception they have in their minds when judging then you look at the stats and realise he's incredibly effective both attacking & defensively.

 

Genuinely don't get the criticism he's getting.  My only criticism is he can't stay fit.  

 

I'd post some stats, but it seems people want to believe only what they see - illogical.