Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

[dockers_strike]

What is “amazing” defensively? As much as I loved Hamann and hated Lucas they were both limited players physically and technically. In Hamann’s case that didn’t make him a bad player. He did play in a negative Liverpool team which sometimes played 4 centre backs and 4 centre midfielders. He was positioned as the most defensive and did his job.

 

Although Houllier and Benitez were both negative managers they both used Gerrard completely differently. Houllier signed a lot of shite and Gerrard was basically deployed as a box to box midfielder to change the game at both ends of the pitch and to cover up the failings of the shite players we had. Gerrard excelled defensively and offensively in a 2 man midfield for those years. He was an absolute wrecking machine at both ends and was the reason the club was in a competitive position when Benitez took over.

 

I was going to put this at the end of the post but it feels more apt to put it in now. Fans who come out with this “Gerrard was poor defensively” line always strike me as either someone who became a fan after the champions league win and subsequent years or somebody who is so far up Benitez’s arse every single opinion they hold factors it in in case what they are saying somehow criticises their deity. Gerrard was a brilliant tackler and probably the best all round complete midfielder the premier league if not the game has ever seen. He was that good he could and did play in various positions all over the pitch in massive games not just against fucking Bolton. He did that because he was “amazing” defensively and offensively. Just because Benitez decided to use him in attacking positions doesn’t suddenly eradicate these facts. The fact we went on to win nothing in his peak years suggest that probably wasn’t the best use of him but that’s for another discussion.

 

Unlike Houllier, Benitez didn’t want Gerrard playing as a box to box player (at least from the start of games anyway). He liked 2 player to sit in front of the defence with a third midfielder further up. I know I’m stating the obvious here but it’s hard to judge the knowledge or intelligence of somebody when having to explain the argument to people who come with this crap about Gerrard.

 

In my opinion it stifled Gerrard and the team. People say it’s because he didn’t trust him defensively. I don’t think that’s the case I think he just thought I can get more goals out Gerrard further up the pitch. The problem this then brought was that instead of Gerrard opening up teams from midfield with players in front of him he had one player in front of him and we struggled to break down teams a lot more than people care to remember. A lot of the time in this period one of the other midfielders was sacrificed for a forward and Gerrard was played in the 2 which was how Liverpool then went on to win the game. It happened one and again yet all anyone will tell you is how great Gerrard and Torres were together. They actually weren’t that great. I’ve said it before and people ignore it. Gerrard assisted Torres once all season in the league in 08/09. We come back from losing positions something like 12 times that season because of the negative tactics Benitez employed which were only rescued by Gerrard dropping into a 2 in midfield. This isn’t including the games where we weren’t losing and didn’t end up breaking the teams down. It’s what cost us then league title that year and it’s why Gerrard said after a few years with Rodgers he felt he would have won league titles under him at his peak because he would have used him better.

 

I know people disagree with a lot of these specific points and it’s been gone over time and again but I just find it irritating that the fallout of Benitez pushing Gerrard up the pitch is this laughable view that Gerrard was poor defensively. If Gerrard had played as a defensive midfielder his whole career he be revered by all these hipster retards that have Makelele down as some footballing god as better than he’s viewed now because he went further up the pitch. Standing in front of the defence and tackling people if you can tackle is literally one of the easiest jobs in the game and Gerrard could have done it with his eyes closed. The argument should be “shut down” because there isn’t an argument. If you think there is then in my opinion you’ve been literally got no clue about Gerrard or you’re a Manc.

 

Good post although not sure about the manc bit in the last sentence. Some eejit said that about me and I can assure everyone cut me in half and you would see LFC.

 

Anyhoo I agree there is some utter shit spoken about Gerrard. Kenny was always the best Liverpool player in my opinion but I have to say Gerrard just shaves him. It is not Gerrards fault he played in an era when we were not competitive over a league campaign.

[KMD7]

Jesus could you imagine a peak Gerrard in this Klopp team?

[The Guest]

Good post although not sure about the manc bit in the last sentence. Some eejit said that about me and I can assure everyone cut me in half and you would see LFC.

 

Anyhoo I agree there is some utter shit spoken about Gerrard. Kenny was always the best Liverpool player in my opinion but I have to say Gerrard just shaves him. It is not Gerrards fault he played in an era when we were not competitive over a league campaign.

Yeah I’m not meaning to call any red a Manc. What I mean is that it’s the sort of shit Mancs have been peddling for a while because they don’t like that Gerrard was a better player than any midfielder they’ve had. If you want to start coming out with the same crap then in all likelihood you’re clueless about Gerrard or you’ve got an agenda.

[aRdja]

What is “amazing” defensively? As much as I loved Hamann and hated Lucas they were both limited players physically and technically. In Hamann’s case that didn’t make him a bad player. He did play in a negative Liverpool team which sometimes played 4 centre backs and 4 centre midfielders. He was positioned as the most defensive and did his job.

 

Although Houllier and Benitez were both negative managers they both used Gerrard completely differently. Houllier signed a lot of shite and Gerrard was basically deployed as a box to box midfielder to change the game at both ends of the pitch and to cover up the failings of the shite players we had. Gerrard excelled defensively and offensively in a 2 man midfield for those years. He was an absolute wrecking machine at both ends and was the reason the club was in a competitive position when Benitez took over.

 

I was going to put this at the end of the post but it feels more apt to put it in now. Fans who come out with this “Gerrard was poor defensively” line always strike me as either someone who became a fan after the champions league win and subsequent years or somebody who is so far up Benitez’s arse every single opinion they hold factors it in in case what they are saying somehow criticises their deity. Gerrard was a brilliant tackler and probably the best all round complete midfielder the premier league if not the game has ever seen. He was that good he could and did play in various positions all over the pitch in massive games not just against fucking Bolton. He did that because he was “amazing” defensively and offensively. Just because Benitez decided to use him in attacking positions doesn’t suddenly eradicate these facts. The fact we went on to win nothing in his peak years suggest that probably wasn’t the best use of him but that’s for another discussion.

 

Unlike Houllier, Benitez didn’t want Gerrard playing as a box to box player (at least from the start of games anyway). He liked 2 player to sit in front of the defence with a third midfielder further up. I know I’m stating the obvious here but it’s hard to judge the knowledge or intelligence of somebody when having to explain the argument to people who come with this crap about Gerrard.

 

In my opinion it stifled Gerrard and the team. People say it’s because he didn’t trust him defensively. I don’t think that’s the case I think he just thought I can get more goals out Gerrard further up the pitch. The problem this then brought was that instead of Gerrard opening up teams from midfield with players in front of him he had one player in front of him and we struggled to break down teams a lot more than people care to remember. A lot of the time in this period one of the other midfielders was sacrificed for a forward and Gerrard was played in the 2 which was how Liverpool then went on to win the game. It happened one and again yet all anyone will tell you is how great Gerrard and Torres were together. They actually weren’t that great. I’ve said it before and people ignore it. Gerrard assisted Torres once all season in the league in 08/09. We come back from losing positions something like 12 times that season because of the negative tactics Benitez employed which were only rescued by Gerrard dropping into a 2 in midfield. This isn’t including the games where we weren’t losing and didn’t end up breaking the teams down. It’s what cost us then league title that year and it’s why Gerrard said after a few years with Rodgers he felt he would have won league titles under him at his peak because he would have used him better.

 

I know people disagree with a lot of these specific points and it’s been gone over time and again but I just find it irritating that the fallout of Benitez pushing Gerrard up the pitch is this laughable view that Gerrard was poor defensively. If Gerrard had played as a defensive midfielder his whole career he be revered by all these hipster retards that have Makelele down as some footballing god as better than he’s viewed now because he went further up the pitch. Standing in front of the defence and tackling people if you can tackle is literally one of the easiest jobs in the game and Gerrard could have done it with his eyes closed. The argument should be “shut down” because there isn’t an argument. If you think there is then in my opinion you’ve literally got no clue about Gerrard or you’re a Manc.

Didi was a much superior defensive midfielder than Gerrard and Xabi. Remember the first half in Istanbul? Probably one of the single most embarassing half of football I’ve ever seen from us (especially Gerrard and Xabi) As we all know, Didi came on and changed the game.

 

Defensive midfield i find is one of the things that (a lot of) brits have a bit of a myopic attitude on I reckon. I grew up watching a lot of continental football, and there’s a lot more to the role than “standing and tackling.” I recommend watching videos Fernando Redondo, Pep Guardiola. They were very different to the DMs you would’ve been familiar with e.g., the likes of Batty, or Ince. Xabi said something along that line a few years back in an interview.

[suzy]

Just watched MOTD and I loved the way Bobby ran straight to him to celebrate his goal and thank him for the assist.

[Harry Squatter]

I thought he'd be a waste of money especially with his bad injury record but he's probably been a bargain. You can tell he is really enjoying playing for us and loves being here and another player who has just got better the longer the season has gone on. If he improves his shooting he could end up with about 15 next season. He is capable as he has shown with his 2 against man city.

[Anny Road]

I think he is fit, strong full of great attitude, a team player with good vision, a bloody good lad but his ability as a ball player is not outstanding.

[mgw100]

I think he is fit, strong full of great attitude, a team player with good vision, a bloody good lad but his ability as a ball player is not outstanding.

Good summary.

[Johnlj]

I thought he'd be a waste of money especially with his bad injury record but he's probably been a bargain. You can tell he is really enjoying playing for us and loves being here and another player who has just got better the longer the season has gone on. If he improves his shooting he could end up with about 15 next season. He is capable as he has shown with his 2 against man city.

I'm probably going to eat humble pie aswell if he continues his progress. I'm still not there as he plays the invisible man still in some games. Yesterday he was magnificent though and have been good in most games recently. 

 

If he gets that consistency going, he'll definetly be a serious contender for a starting place next year. And suddenly those 40 million seems a decent price, and I'll eat my words.

 

edit: Still need to work alot on his decision making and ball skills though

[moof]

Jesus could you imagine a peak Gerrard in this Klopp team?

I just did, and now there’s a mess in my pants

[moof]

Didi was a much superior defensive midfielder than Gerrard and Xabi. Remember the first half in Istanbul? Probably one of the single most embarassing half of football I’ve ever seen from us (especially Gerrard and Xabi) As we all know, Didi came on and changed the game.

 

Defensive midfield i find is one of the things that (a lot of) brits have a bit of a myopic attitude on I reckon. I grew up watching a lot of continental football, and there’s a lot more to the role than “standing and tackling.” I recommend watching videos Fernando Redondo, Pep Guardiola. They were very different to the DMs you would’ve been familiar with e.g., the likes of Batty, or Ince. Xabi said something along that line a few years back in an interview.

What is this “continental football” you speak of? Never heard of any of that bollocks over here in Blighty.

[The Guest]

Didi was a much superior defensive midfielder than Gerrard and Xabi. Remember the first half in Istanbul? Probably one of the single most embarassing half of football I’ve ever seen from us (especially Gerrard and Xabi) As we all know, Didi came on and changed the game.

 

Defensive midfield i find is one of the things that (a lot of) brits have a bit of a myopic attitude on I reckon. I grew up watching a lot of continental football, and there’s a lot more to the role than “standing and tackling.” I recommend watching videos Fernando Redondo, Pep Guardiola. They were very different to the DMs you would’ve been familiar with e.g., the likes of Batty, or Ince. Xabi said something along that line a few years back in an interview.

Honestly this is laughable. Your point is completely redundant because Gerrard didn’t play as a defensive midfielder in the first half where we conceded 3 goals and then not in the second where we conceded none. If Gerrard was playing with Gerrard and Alonso in the second half he could have easily done the job Hamann did. That was more down to the tactical change of playing 3 centre mids not the individual quality of Hamann. We also conceded plenty of chance then as well. We played against one of the greatest teams of all time in that final in Istanbul. The first half drubbing was down to a number of things but specifically the fact our team player for player was nowhere near theirs.

 

A lot of “Brit’s” I find talk about defensive midfield as if it could only be played the greatest minds in the world. They do this because they feel their football knowledge is completely inadequate and need to talk as if they know more than they do to make up for it. It’s the emperors new clothes in my book. It’s usually followed up with some textbook bollocks about watching continental football and reeling off Guardiola and Redondo amongst others as I must have only seen Ince and Batty in England. Obviously hardly any foreign managers or players are here so we obviously haven’t got a clue.

 

They think they are speaking to some other like minded buffoon who isn’t obsessed with football and won’t pull them on their nonsense. Since I was a kid I reckon I’ve watched as much football as anybody and I’ve played a fair bit too. Watching some YouTube highlights reel of Guardiola passing the ball in an inferior league that Barcelona and Real have pretty much dominated for 30 years isn’t going to suddenly enlighten people on this bollocks about defensive midfield.

 

Hamann was no better defensively than Gerrard. He wasnt a better passer tackler or header of a ball He wasnt a better decision maker either. The reason he wasn’t is because Gerrard had everything and in abundance. It doesn’t make Hamann a bad player it just makes him inferior to Gerrard because he was. Had Gerrard played the restricted role Hamann did he’d have walked it just like he would have walked full back or up front or on the wing but he was too good to just be held there.

[aRdja]

Honestly this is laughable. Your point is completely redundant because Gerrard didn’t play as a defensive midfielder in the first half where we conceded 3 goals and then not in the second where we conceded none. If Gerrard was playing with Gerrard and Alonso in the second half he could have easily done the job Hamann did. That was more down to the tactical change of playing 3 centre mids not the individual quality of Hamann. We also conceded plenty of chance then as well. We played against one of the greatest teams of all time in that final in Istanbul. The first half drubbing was down to a number of things but specifically the fact our team player for player was nowhere near theirs.

 

A lot of “Brit’s” I find talk about defensive midfield as if it could only be played the greatest minds in the world. They do this because they feel their football knowledge is completely inadequate and need to talk as if they know more than they do to make up for it. It’s the emperors new clothes in my book. It’s usually followed up with some textbook bollocks about watching continental football and reeling off Guardiola and Redondo amongst others as I must have only seen Ince and Batty in England. Obviously hardly any foreign managers or players are here so we obviously haven’t got a clue.

 

They think they are speaking to some other like minded buffoon who isn’t obsessed with football and won’t pull them on their nonsense. Since I was a kid I reckon I’ve watched as much football as anybody and I’ve played a fair bit too. Watching some YouTube highlights reel of Guardiola passing the ball in an inferior league that Barcelona and Real have pretty much dominated for 30 years isn’t going to suddenly enlighten people on this bollocks about defensive midfield.

 

Hamann was no better defensively than Gerrard. He wasnt a better passer tackler or header of a ball He wasnt a better decision maker either. The reason he wasn’t is because Gerrard had everything and in abundance. It doesn’t make Hamann a bad player it just makes him inferior to Gerrard because he was. Had Gerrard played the restricted role Hamann did he’d have walked it just like he would have walked full back or up front or on the wing but he was too good to just be held there.

Player for player Milan was still better than us in the second half if memory serves me correctly. Bringing on Smicer and Hamann didn’t all of a sudden make as as good a team as the all star Milan team. Both halfs we had two holding midfielders and one attacking midfielder. First half we had Gerrard and Xabi holding with Kewell roaming behind Baros. Second half we had Didi and Xabi holding with Stevie roaming behind Garcia and Baros. Didi was a fine defensive midfielder and actually tracked Kaká - something both holding midfielders failed to do in the first half - killing his impact on the game. The main reason for that, was Didi being one of the best defensive midfielders in the game. Neither Gerrard nor Xabi was close to being as good defensively as the German, but that’s okay, because they were better than Didi at other things e.g., Xabi at controlling tempo, and Gerrard at creating and scoring goals. Reading from your two posts you’re probably one of those who thought that playing Gerrard with Lampard in CM for England would work, because they were both great midfielders and they’d sort it out, but we also know how that experiment ended.

 

Also I’m sorry that you took offense to my post earlier. I didn’t mean to say you had inferior football understanding than me, definitely not inferior, but just different. I don’t really appreciate thunderous tackles like you would for example.

[Vincent Vega]

No tattoos. I like that.

[3 Stacks]

Defensive midfield i find is one of the things that (a lot of) brits have a bit of a myopic attitude on I reckon. I grew up watching a lot of continental football, and there’s a lot more to the role than “standing and tackling.” I recommend watching videos Fernando Redondo, Pep Guardiola. They were very different to the DMs you would’ve been familiar with e.g., the likes of Batty, or Ince. 

 

 

Reading from your two posts you’re probably one of those who thought that playing Gerrard with Lampard in CM for England would work, because they were both great midfielders and they’d sort it out, but we also know how that experiment ended.

 

Also I’m sorry that you took offense to my post earlier. I didn’t mean to say you had inferior football understanding than me, definitely not inferior, but just different. I don’t really appreciate thunderous tackles like you would for example.

 

Are you playing a character of some sort? This reads like a complete parody. 

[aRdja]

Are you playing a character of some sort? This reads like a complete parody.

I’ve made similar points to those Xabi raised a few years back when discussing English football. Not overly out there I wouldn’t have thought.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/nov/11/xabi-alonso-spain-england-interview

[3 Stacks]

It’s the same points Xabi raised a few years back.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/nov/11/xabi-alonso-spain-england-interview

 

Yeah I get that, it's the way you said it. "I recommend watching videos of Fernando Redondo and Pep Guardiola". "I don't appreciate thundering tackles like you would". Lol.

 

It's just you sound like a twat. It's quite funny. 

[aRdja]

Yeah I get that, it's the way you said it. "I recommend watching videos of Fernando Redondo and Pep Guardiola". "I don't appreciate thundering tackles like you would". Lol.

 

It's just you sound like a twat.

Maybe inadvertently. He did start off with “anyone who disagrees with me on this is a complete retard”.

[3 Stacks]

Maybe inadvertently. He did start off with “anyone who disagrees with me on this is a complete retard”.

 

Yeah, that's true, to be fair. 

[aRdja]

Also both Pep and Redondo were excellent DMs. The Argentinian in particular at his best was outstanding. Probably my favourite non-red footballer. I haven’t seen anyone comparable in English football.

[TheHowieLama]

There are a fair few on here who saw Redondo play - with out Youtube

[aRdja]

There are a fair few on here who saw Redondo play - with out Youtube

Sure. If you know a better medium for those who didn’t get the chance to watch him like The Guest, feel free to recommend.

[The Guest]

Player for player Milan was still better than us in the second half if memory serves me correctly. Bringing on Smicer and Hamann didn’t all of a sudden make as as good a team as the all star Milan team. Both halfs we had two holding midfielders and one attacking midfielder. First half we had Gerrard and Xabi holding with Kewell roaming behind Baros. Second half we had Didi and Xabi holding with Stevie roaming behind Garcia and Baros. Didi was a fine defensive midfielder and actually tracked Kaká - something both holding midfielders failed to do in the first half - killing his impact on the game. The main reason for that, was Didi being one of the best defensive midfielders in the game. Neither Gerrard nor Xabi was close to being as good defensively as the German, but that’s okay, because they were better than Didi at other things e.g., Xabi at controlling tempo, and Gerrard at creating and scoring goals. Reading from your two posts you’re probably one of those who thought that playing Gerrard with Lampard in CM for England would work, because they were both great midfielders and they’d sort it out, but we also know how that experiment ended.

 

Also I’m sorry that you took offense to my post earlier. I didn’t mean to say you had inferior football understanding than me, definitely not inferior, but just different. I don’t really appreciate thunderous tackles like you would for example.

The first half we played 442. Harry Kewell started off up front and went off after 20 mins. We were playing a 2 man midfield. Even if you could argue that we somehow weren’t then Gerrard wasn’t afforded the luxury of having Gerrard as his 3rd midfielder he had Kewell and Smicer who clearly weren’t central midfielders. Gerrard was not holding in that first half anyway and that was never the case when he and Alonso played together. Gerrard would go and Alonso would stay.

 

Either you seem to be deliberately missing my point that Gerrard clearly had too much ability to be told to sit in front of the defence. It’s not rocket science to just never run up the pitch and just sit in front of the defence. At the end of his career when his legs had clearly gone we nearly won the fucking league with him there. If he played there at his peak you honestly think Hamann would have kept him out of the side? You’re fucking mental.

 

Picking one game, and a freak game at that, as some sort of example that Gerrard was poor defensively especially when he played 3 different positions one of them being in defence is laughable.

 

The England comment sums you up really. It’s the sort football hipsters like yourself come out with. God knows where it’s come from. I’ve said time and again on here England’s biggest problem was not playing a defensive minded player in midfield with Gerrard. They never had a manager who had the balls or knowledge to drop Lampard. In response I’m guessing you’re one of these retards who thinks they should have played Scholes behind them 2 in a midfield 3 despite him never playing there until he was about 35.

 

You’re transparent Ardja even if you think you’re getting way with it. On one hand you’re telling me to watch videos of Redondo as if you’re some sort of football connoisseur and you didn’t start watching football in 2006 and then on the other you’re saying we need to sign some fucking 6 foot 5 yard dog up front for Firmino to play off.

[moof]

Fucking Redondo? Never heard of the cunt

[The Guest]

This stuff about Redondo and Guardiola reminds me of the Maradona stuff you hear. You get fellas who probably seen Maradona about 6 times in about 10 years yet they will tell you how no matter what Messi does he will never be as good as him. Like most people you probably seen Redondo playing Champions league games 2/3 times a year that’s even if you did that. But then I’m guessing you used to get all Real Madrid’s games sent to you on tape by your grandads cousins mates sister and you would sit there with a pen and paper out recording all of Redondos movements.

 

I’ve got mates like you Ardja. They didn’t play football in school, their parents weren’t into it and they had no affinity with any club in particular. When they hit about 18/19 they just fell into it because of how popular it is and if you aren’t into it you just end up missing out on all sorts. I’m guessing that’s happened for years but the curve ball for my age group was the internet and football forums.

 

Suddenly everyone knew everything because on an Internet forum you can just quickly look something up whereas in a real life situation they’d get torn apart within a few questions. These weapons told us how great Cisse was going to be and then Lucas but if you asked them who Riedle was they wouldn’t have a clue. They’ve spent the past 10 years trying to catch up on something they will never get because they don’t see the game the same way and they’re too busy trying to look clever.