Grenfall Tower Fire

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Try Adamwagner1 on Twitter.

I have to say, I was surprised when I heard that solicitor on Newsnight saying that inquests would be better - and that you can't have both.  My (almost completely uninformed) thoughts were that an inquest had a limited scope - to identify who died; when they died; where they died; and how they died.  I thought that if the "how they died" part of the inquest raised plenty of questions, then you could have a public inquiry to answer those questions.

 

I'll leave Mr Wagner and Ms Khan to argue about the benefits of one over the other.  The important thing is that justice is done and that lessons are learned.

[Rico1304]

I have to say, I was surprised when I heard that solicitor on Newsnight saying that inquests would be better - and that you can't have both. My (almost completely uninformed) thoughts were that an inquest had a limited scope - to identify who died; when they died; where they died; and how they died. I thought that if the "how they died" part of the inquest raised plenty of questions, then you could have a public inquiry to answer those questions.

 

I'll leave Mr Wagner and Ms Khan to argue about the benefits of one over the other. The important thing is that justice is done and that lessons are learned.

My thinking is they got someone involved in a fire to offer an expert opinion on inquest v inquiry when the should have got an expert in inquest v inquiry.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

My thinking is they got someone involved in a fire to offer an expert opinion on inquest v inquiry when the should have got an expert in inquest v inquiry.

Do you think it might have been better if, for example, they'd interviewed the Director of Legal and Policy at the Police Action Centre, a solicitor-advocate who specialises in Actions Against the Police and Inquest Law?  

 

 

http://policeactioncentre.org.uk/our-people/

[deiseach]

I'll be defensive and assume that's a dig at me voting Tory. Happy to be proved wrong. Also happy to point you to the numerous posts where I say I'm happy to pay my 40% tax. I don't want to pay more and I don't want to be made redundant. Both those things are more likely under Labour.

The income tax rate on earnings up to £45,000 is 20%. Good to know you're happy to pay 40%, comrade.

[Moctezuma]

Your 'comparison' is interesting. Do you really think the circumstances are the same?

 

I have no opinion on what happens abroad, it's irrelevant. I may be wrong but haven't reductions in tax been offset by VAT and NI? Forgive me if I'm wrong but we live in the safest period ever.

Indeed the circumstances are not the same, but there are many people in your position in western europe, scandanavia and formerly in the UK who don't seem to have quite your objections as they understand that it's for the betterment of the entirity of society. VAT and NI are regressive taxes and shift burden of payments onto those who are not as well off.

 

Anyway I'll leave it at that this thread (as mentioned by others) probably isn't the place to do a deep dive on your personal finances and political outlook.

[Moctezuma]

As others have mentioned I think the Government are really going to have to pull their finger out and communicate better, I don't see much rain forcast down here and it's going to be hot today.

[deiseach]

It was creepy looking at my Twitter feed yesterday, expecting to read that the balloon had gone up at Kensington council's offices. Daily Mail hack and Tory parasite Stephen Pollard found Corbyn's suggestion that expropriation of private property might be required to be 'absolutely frightening'. That's what you find frightening about all this? Talk about a lack of imagination.

[razor]

Strong and stable ..... bloody difficult woman ...... etc etc

 

[VladimirIlyich]

Bloke under the Twitter handle of @crispymick is one of the firefighters who went in last night.

 

Apparently, it was that bad a fire that the firemen were told to write their names on their helmets just in case.

 

He's tweeted a pic of his helmet (oooh, Matron) and the S*n have asked to use his pic and he's told them to fuck off.

 

Good bloke on two fronts! Bravo!

Remember that they lost one of their own at Hillsborough. He was also stationed in the London area(although a scouser) and there is also commemoration of him so the FB lads know all about that shitrag.

[Jairzinho]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pKGEeNs74

[Chip Butty]

The cheep cutting corners and disregard for health and safety mentality, begins to rear its ugly head....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/manufacturer-of-cladding-on-grenfell-tower-identified-as-omnis-exteriors

 

An extra £2 per sq meter, for fucks sake

[clangers]

If May wasn't done for prior to this week, she certainly is now. That interview on Newsnight was appalling, is anyone vaguely sensitive and intelligent actually advising her? Whatever you do prime minister don't be evasive or dogmatic at a time such as this.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

Not sure if this was posted yesterday, but cunt S*n journo accused of impersonating relative at a hospital in order to get an interview with a survivor:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-the-sun-journalist-impersonate-victim-relative-interview-source-fridge-a7793371.html

 

Complaint has been filed with IPSO.

[Mook]

Not sure if this was posted yesterday, but cunt S*n journo accused of impersonating relative at a hospital in order to get an interview with a survivor:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-the-sun-journalist-impersonate-victim-relative-interview-source-fridge-a7793371.html

 

Complaint has been filed with IPSO.

Shut them fucking down.

 

Scum.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

[Bjornebye]

1892-LFCWasBorn, on 17 Jun 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

 

Not sure if this was posted yesterday, but cunt S*n journo accused of impersonating relative at a hospital in order to get an interview with a survivor:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-the-sun-journalist-impersonate-victim-relative-interview-source-fridge-a7793371.html

 

Complaint has been filed with IPSO.

 

The fucking utter cunt.

[Red Phoenix]

Am wondering if Dave has thought about making a new forum for rico's taxes at this point.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

Jeremy Corbyn‏Verified account @jeremycorbyn 2h

I have written to @Theresa_May regarding the decision to hold a full and independent public inquiry into the fire at #GrenfellTower.

 

Corbyn letter to May:

 

 

[Cardie]

 

The rest are in the building unaccounted for, it's why they keep saying X no. "but it will rise" or "expected to rise" or "currently".

 

You can't pronounce someone dead until you find and identify them or until much further down the line it becomes clear that you may never find them.

 

I can fully understand why those directly affected want to know where people close to them are, I understand less why those not directly affected have such a morbid curiosity in prematurely declaring the death count.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

The rest are in the building unaccounted for, it's why they keep saying X no. "but it will rise" or "expected to rise" or "currently".

 

You can't pronounce someone dead until you find and identify them or until much further down the line it becomes clear that you may never find them.

 

I can fully understand why those directly affected want to know where people close to them are, I understand less why those not directly affected have such a morbid curiosity of death counts.

 

The numbers don't add up though, which was the point she was making.

[Cardie]

The numbers don't add up though, which was the point she was making.

 

What are you expecting to add up?

 

That there are an estimated 400-600 people in the flats yet 17 then 30 then 70 have been declared dead (either officially or unofficially and apologies if those exact numbers are out) obviously doesn't add up but at no point has anyone declared a final count, it's a continuing process.

 

Maybe we could have declared Tamzin and Malek  Belkadi dead to make the numbers add up that bit more, bit of a shitter that they were later found alive but we can just do the offsetting later, as long as we have 400 in and 400 out who cares.

 

Personally I don't envy the people who have to go in and try to decide whether that charred pile of ash is a person or a fucking fridge.

[Arl arse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pKGEeNs74

That's fuckin spot on.

[PestiRed]

You could easily say that x number of people lived in the flats and x number of people have been accounted for. Both numbers might change a bit but people would have an idea. I understand that they thought that not releasing numbers might help to calm the situation, but now it's creating even more suspicion and mistrust

 

At least you could do that if you had set up some support services for the survivors and had an idea of where the people who got out were

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

You could easily say that x number of people lived in the flats and x number of people have been accounted for. Both numbers might change a bit but people would have an idea. I understand that they thought that not releasing numbers might help to calm the situation, but now it's creating even more suspicion and mistrust

 

Exactly.

[Pidge]

Yeah, it's one of the stranger angles for me as well - the number of people either suggesting the fire was a deliberate act of social cleansing or the numbers are being suppressed.  I don't agree with either of these things.  But in the absence of actual leadership (the tories seem to be much more concerned with managing their own crisis, rather than the tragedy itself) people will look to fill the vacuum.

 

That Mr Barwell blanking every and any reporter is getting especially annoying. Potential suppression of a housing report into high-rise developments, while also MP for Croydon (which has had a lot of significant developments over the last couple of years - it's on the route into London from mine, I've been watching them go up) is extremely concerning.