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Virgil Van Dijk

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1 hour ago, El Rojo said:

They’re the two best players in the world in their positions and our most expensive signings. 
 

Getting in better replacements (who none of us would have wanted to ever see on the pitch in an ideal world) would probably have meant not signing Thiago and/or Jota.

 

I wouldn’t criticise anybody at the club over what happened today. 

Not getting a 4th centre half when our 4th one last season played loads was IMO a risk that should not have been taken.

 

Especially in a season like this one where games are really condensed.

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8 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Great post but its lost on some of these in here. 

 

"YOU'RE A TWAT" and "THIS FORUM WAS BETTER WHEN YOU WERN'T ON HERE" are just some of the ridiculous replies you get for wanting your club to have adequate cover in positions we have all been banging on about for a while now.

 

Well lets see how we do now if VDV is out for a while. Lets see if we can cope and retain the league with a flaky centre back and a man made of balsa.

I'm actually almost ok with the choices we've made. But I completely see why others are not.

 

I'm accepting of the idea we've gone with Adrian and while he's shite, is he much shitter than the keeper at the other end today and he's their 1st choice and England's number 1? Any self aware keeper would know they're not going to get past alisson, so their only chance is an injury and cup competitions we dislike so much we'd like to cancel. I don't think there's a need for a 3rd, we should be looking to a kid at that point imo. 

 

As for centre back, my view has been all along, if we'd have bought one at 12m quid with our buy to sell policy, he'd probably be of the quality that would put him behind fabinho there - a modern day version of kyriagos. So if vvd gets a long term injury, he's of almost no value. But I said a year ago I would have been happy to sell any 2 of the 3 of lovren/matip/Gomez and get a top class and physically robust centre back and go with 3 and a kid. The issue isn't going with 3 and make do and mend, it's going with the 3 we've got because it's the cheap option and we absolutely know 2 are flakey with injury and so if vvd gets injured we're fucked. And not just fucked at centre back, if we play fabinho there, we weaken our midfield. I've no issue with that for 1 or 2 games, but I'm absolutely certain if vvd doesn't play again this season fabinho will play more games at CB than 1 or both of Gomez & matip. 

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I'm pretty sure that the signing of Thiago meant that Fabinho would be our 4th choice centre back. People talk about not replacing Lovren, but Lovren was a liability and Thiago didn't replace anyone.

 

Look at how much money clubs haven spent on centre backs in the past few years. The idea that we could sign someone who would be good enough and happy to be 4th choice centre back was fanciful. 

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10 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I'm accepting of the idea we've gone with Adrian and while he's shite, is he much shitter than the keeper at the other end today and he's their 1st choice and England's number 1? 

So it’s ok that our keeper is shit as long as theirs is? 
 

 

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40 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

People think they're geniuses for pointing out Matip gets injured and Gomez is a bit unproven. The club chose to back them a long time ago. The problem is that the club has extended both and Klopp believes in them, so what did people think, that he'd just toss them aside? That's the thing, the conversation is just unrealistic because the only possible move we can make is to buy a young player to develop or a more experienced stop gap

 

And both of those things are options and worthy of discussion. This is a forum, we're here to discuss. As I've just put in my previous post, I actually take a half way position between what we've done and buying some stop gap crap. And if some people feel validated that they aired their fears in the summer and now those worst fears are unfolding in front of our eyes, it seems a pretty normal reaction on derby day would be "for fucks sake". And it doesn't take a genius to see matip is made glass, gomez is made of crisps and pretty ordinary to poor quality - so the idea of discussing why the club may not be addressing such obvious issues when till just weeks ago felt the club needed another centre back, again is that not a valid discussion point?  You seem to be suggesting we should shut the forum down and just put up a page "LFC get it all right and don't ever dare question or discuss them". 

 

And as for people thinking they're geniuses, I suggest next time you get the chance, take a little look in the mirror. 

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8 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

I'm pretty sure that the signing of Thiago meant that Fabinho would be our 4th choice centre back. People talk about not replacing Lovren, but Lovren was a liability and Thiago didn't replace anyone.

 

Look at how much money clubs haven spent on centre backs in the past few years. The idea that we could sign someone who would be good enough and happy to be 4th choice centre back was fanciful. 

Thiago replaced Adam lallana. The club's publicity news paper in fact said we financed Thiago's wages by saving the cost of lallanas wages. 

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5 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

I'm pretty sure that the signing of Thiago meant that Fabinho would be our 4th choice centre back. People talk about not replacing Lovren, but Lovren was a liability and Thiago didn't replace anyone.

 

Look at how much money clubs haven spent on centre backs in the past few years. The idea that we could sign someone who would be good enough and happy to be 4th choice centre back was fanciful. 


We should have signed an up and coming CB, already good enough to challenge Gomez and Matip. This clearly was an important area to improve, and we chose not to. If we couldnt afford it, fair enough, but if Klopp and his team thought we didnt need it, well then I totally disagree.

 

This was my opinion before Lovren left as well, and it was the right decision to let him go, as he wasn’t good enough anyway, at least not the way we play.

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8 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

Ask yourself this. In the event of a long VVD injury who would you prefer playing centreback? Lovren or Fabinho?

Or ask yourself could that player competing with fabinho be anyone who wasn't lovren? Last season the manager believed lovren was the better choice, because he selected him there. It's not a view I subscribe to, but it's certainly one the manager would choose given the chance. 

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1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

Thiago replaced Adam lallana. The club's publicity news paper in fact said we financed Thiago's wages by saving the cost of lallanas wages. 

Curtis Jones replaced Lallana. 

 

Lallana barely featured for us the past two seasons, Thiago was signed as a first choice player not a backup. I understand from the wages point of view, but Thiago isn't a direct replacement for Lallana, very different players. 

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3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Thiago replaced Adam lallana. The club's publicity news paper in fact said we financed Thiago's wages by saving the cost of lallanas wages. 


Depends how you define ‘replace’ then I guess. I certainly hope he wont replace him from a contribution point of view.

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2 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:


We should have signed an up and coming CB, already good enough to challenge Gomez and Matip. This clearly was an important area to improve, and we chose not to. If we couldnt afford it, fair enough, but if Klopp and his team thought we didnt need it, well then I totally disagree.

 

This was my opinion before Lovren left as well, and it was the right decision to let him go, as he wasn’t good enough anyway, at least not the way we play.

Who though? Genuinely interested who you think we could have got?

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10 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

Ask yourself this. In the event of a long VVD injury who would you prefer playing centreback? Lovren or Fabinho?

It didn't have to be Lovren did it.

 

Just a proper centre half rather than having to pull someobody from another area of the park and weakening that area too.

 

We could very easily given Matip's injury record be down to 1 recognised centre half soon and that is just not on for a club of our ambition and resources.

 

Yes a 4th choice centre half would likely be not all that, but when you only have 3 and no youth behind and one of the 3 has a really poor injury record you have to IMO have that 4th one.

 

 

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1 minute ago, MegadriveMan said:

Curtis Jones replaced Lallana. 

 

Lallana barely featured for us the past two seasons, Thiago was signed as a first choice player not a backup. I understand from the wages point of view, but Thiago isn't a direct replacement for Lallana, very different players. 

Curtis jones was already at the club and playing games. He stepped up and I would say replaced Pedro Chiravella - he went past Chiravella during the last campaign which is why Chiravella is no longer at the club and left during the summer. 

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On the topic of him walking off afterwards, remember Lucas against Chelsea. He played on for 5 mins after and he had ruptured his. I'm only hoping that it's his medial or lateral ligaments.

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14 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

And both of those things are options and worthy of discussion. This is a forum, we're here to discuss. As I've just put in my previous post, I actually take a half way position between what we've done and buying some stop gap crap. And if some people feel validated that they aired their fears in the summer and now those worst fears are unfolding in front of our eyes, it seems a pretty normal reaction on derby day would be "for fucks sake". And it doesn't take a genius to see matip is made glass, gomez is made of crisps and pretty ordinary to poor quality - so the idea of discussing why the club may not be addressing such obvious issues when till just weeks ago felt the club needed another centre back, again is that not a valid discussion point?  You seem to be suggesting we should shut the forum down and just put up a page "LFC get it all right and don't ever dare question or discuss them". 

 

And as for people thinking they're geniuses, I suggest next time you get the chance, take a little look in the mirror. 

I'm talking about the absurdity that had we bought a 4th choice CB, that would have somehow protected us against van Dijk getting injured. It wouldn't because Virgil is special. Everyone knows that and it's why the people saying the club prepared poorly are just out of bounds. Now, if you want to say that Matip should've been sold, that's fine, but that wasn't gonna happen. So again, I don't know what the point is.

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6 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:


Depends how you define ‘replace’ then I guess. I certainly hope he wont replace him from a contribution point of view.

Surely every time you replace a player you would hope he contributes more than the last fella? 

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3 minutes ago, an tha said:

It didn't have to be Lovren did it.

 

Just a proper centre half rather than having to pull someobody from another area of the park and weakening that area too.

 

 

If everybody stayed fit this season, I expected Fabinho to lose his place. Our best midfield is Henderson, Thiago and Widjnaldum, with Fabinho, Keta, Milner, Oxlade, and Jones waiting in the wings. 

 

VVD hasn't missed a game for us through injury since signing. It was impossible to predict that some cunt would go through him like Pickford did. 

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Even Klopp admitted we had a 'situation' at centre back during preseason which shows that even he acknowledged we are short in that area with Lovren leaving without being replaced. 

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6 minutes ago, niallers said:

On the topic of him walking off afterwards, remember Lucas against Chelsea. He played on for 5 mins after and he had ruptured his. I'm only hoping that it's his medial or lateral ligaments.

Yep and as I posted earlier when ings did one of his, he didn't even think it was serious right away. My understanding is if it's a big tear or its completely snapped you don't much move. If it's tiny, it's sore but probably isn't even enough to stop you running. But the journey back is pretty much still a long haul. 

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4 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Curtis jones was already at the club and playing games. He stepped up and I would say replaced Pedro Chiravella - he went past Chiravella during the last campaign which is why Chiravella is no longer at the club and left during the summer. 

Chirivella played 1 league game for us in his entire Liverpool career!

 

Lallana played, 12, 13 and 15 league games in his last 3 seasons. He had a bit part role. We didn't sign Thiago as a bit part player.

 

Jones has taken the bit part player role of Lallana. Thiago was signed to start, with Henderson and Fabinho competing for the same positions. 

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Here we go again, an imaginary 4th choice centre back who's going to be as good as Virgil is better than Matip and Gomez, is going to sit on the bench until needed, isnt going to cost less than 30m and probably wants 100k a week. Oh and he has to be 'home grown' otherwise he could not be in the squad unless we shipped some other non home grown player out.

 

If only the premier league was FIFA 2020.

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53 minutes ago, an tha said:

Not getting a 4th centre half when our 4th one last season played loads was IMO a risk that should not have been taken.

 

Especially in a season like this one where games are really condensed.

I’d have more of an issue with the goalkeeping situation really, in the sense that the Atletico game should surely have been all the evidence that was required as to our back-up’s quality. Wouldn’t have needed to spend a fortune either to upgrade a bit. 

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26 minutes ago, Marko121 said:

So it’s ok that our keeper is shit as long as theirs is? 
 

 

I just don't think there are many good keepers. Let alone good keepers who are happy to brush alisson's hair, because if he stays fit that's all they'd be useful for. We had ming for years. He was shite and 1st choice. He's now the 1st choice goalkeeper for the number 1 ranked international team. Don't get me wrong, I wish we had a better backup keeper, but I'm realistic enough to know good keepers don't grow on trees and there's even fewer who are.good who are willing to retire for a good wage packet. 

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