Virgil Van Dijk

[TheHowieLama]

Agger barely played the time Alonso was here. I think there may have been one season with a any number of games

[aRdja]

Agger barely played the time Alonso was here. I think there may have been one season with a any number of games

That semi final against Chelsea where he kept the best striker in the world at the time in the form of his life in his pocket, he was quite good. Alonso was still at Liverpool then I believe.

[lifetime fan]

Not worth the money and not improved the defence enough according to Tony Evans.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Not worth the money and not improved the defence enough according to Tony Evans.

I think you've got to be quite obtuse in order to deny the improvement in defence.

[TheHowieLama]

That semi final against Chelsea where he kept the best striker in the world at the time in the form of his life in his pocket, he was quite good. Alonso was still at Liverpool then I believe.

 

Yes - but ironically not on the field.

[Jay86]

You can have both! Alonso and Agger, another ball-playing midfielder, did play well together.

You can have both but what’s the point when Van Dijk’s long range passing is an good as any deep lying playmaker I’ve seen, he pinged one out to the wide area yesterday can’t remember who it was too but it literally dropped onto their chest it was an unreal pass.

 

I just think it would be a waste of money buying a purely deep lying playmaker who just sits in front of the back four passing the ball when Van Dijk can step forward with the ball and do it. We would be much more suited buying prime Mascherano now than we would buying a prime Alonso, Mascherano’s half the footballer that Alonso is but we’d be a much better team with him over Xabi right now.

[aRdja]

Yes - but ironically not on the field.

Sure. He started 43 games that season.. so regular enough.

 

In Alonso’s last (best) season, he started 26 games. I could give you links but you’ve told me in the past your feelings about statistics.

[aRdja]

You can have both but what’s the point when Van Dijk’s long range passing is an good as any deep lying playmaker I’ve seen, he pinged one out to the wide area yesterday can’t remember who it was too but it literally dropped onto their chest it was an unreal pass.

 

I just think it would be a waste of money buying a purely deep lying playmaker who just sits in front of the back four passing the ball when Van Dijk can step forward with the ball and do it. We would be much more suited buying prime Mascherano now than we would buying a prime Alonso, Mascherano’s half the footballer that Alonso is but we’d be a much better team with him over Xabi right now.

Two different roles though. Xabi set the tempo for us. You don’t want a centre half dictating tempo. Unless maybe you play him in the libero role like Matthias Sammer for Germany in 96.

[TheHowieLama]

He played in a four man midfield, we play a three now, that will not change while Klopp is here - Jay is spot on.

[aRdja]

He played in a four man midfield, we play a three now, that will not change while Klopp is here - Jay is spot on.

Henderson is playing that role for us now. I say we upgrade him to a better holding midfielder and play him in his more natural role as a box to box midfielder.

[TheHowieLama]

I agree - but the player at the base needs to be top quality defensively - which is why you are being called out on the "deep playmaker" boolocks. 

 

Henderson won't get in the side further up the field - he will be a good squad player though.

[aRdja]

I agree - but the player at the base needs to be top quality defensively - which is why you are being called out on the "deep playmaker" boolocks.

 

Henderson won't get in the side further up the field - he will be a good squad player though.

I’d take a Didi or a Xabi at the moment. Didi was brilliant defensively and good at dictating tempo. Xabi was good enough defensively but brilliant at dictating tempo. Deep playmaker bollocks? Who called me out? Please elaborate.

[TheHowieLama]

Re- read the thread if you have to - VVD negates the need - you then went off on a tangent with Agger/Alonso.

 

Didi and Xabi were both players in a traditional 4 man midfield mold - I know this has escaped you.

 

They are also two of the very best to ever play for us - so yeah I would take them. I dont think they are up to it now though as both are on in years but we can give it a try.

[Pureblood]

Hendo dictates and the rest follow.  Hence the pointing. 

[aRdja]

Re- read the thread if you have to - VVD negates the need - you then went off on a tangent with Agger/Alonso.

 

Didi and Xabi were both players in a traditional 4 man midfield mold - I know this has escaped you.

 

They are also two of the very best to ever play for us - so yeah I would take them. I dont think they are up to it now though as both are on in years but we can give it a try.

But that role also exists in our current setup is my point. And it’s being played by Henderson. You can play a ball-playing defender and a deep-lying playmaker together to good effect. Many successful teams have done it. Think Bonucci and Pirlo.

[TheHowieLama]

To use two of the greatest players in the history of the game to support a point seems daft.

 

For us - now - in realityland, we need a player in that position whose first quality is defensive awareness and positioning. I for one do not expect us to even be able to find that guy so I am not real confident of finding a fella who will go down in history tbh. 

[aRdja]

To use two of the greatest players in the history of the game seems to support a point seems daft.

 

For us - now - in realityland, we need a player in that position whose first quality is defensive awareness and positioning. I for one do not expect us to even be able to find that guy so I am not real confident of finding a fella who will go down in history tbh.

The point is valid. I’ve used two different examples. What about Kroos and Hummels for Germany?

 

Please explain why you think it doesn’t work.

[TheHowieLama]

Re-read the last two sentences of post above a couple of times.

[aRdja]

You haven’t explained why an Alonso in that role doesn’t work. Jay specifically used Alonso in his example, I’m just being consistent.

[TheHowieLama]

An Alonso - because there have been very few in history of his level and I don't think that a player in his "mold" that is only say 75% as good improves the side as much as a tactically sound player in a more defensive role does. TBH I think even a player like Kroos (another 4 man midfield player) would get run straight through playing as a single pivot in a 3 in this league.

 

Make sense?

[Pureblood]

This is going over old ground, really.  Klopp was asked about a specialist DM before and wasted no time dismissing the idea in relation to his vision of this aspect of the team.

 

There's a reason he has spent big on Naby Keita - he's simply not fussed about adding a specialist DM to his squad.

 

On whether he plans to add a specialist defensive midfielder to his squad...

Second balls after set-pieces, another defensive midfielder would not really be around this situation so it does not help a lot. Half-spaces when counter-pressing does not work, another defensive midfielder [does not help], it's all about organisation.

 

We did already much better in the last few games and we improved around set-pieces a lot. Simon [Mignolet] did a wonderful job, especially in the second part of the season with all the crosses he caught. The good thing is now we know our mistake, we know our weakness, so we will work on it 100 per cent, you can be sure.

 

The season is done, we have a little work to do, transfers and all that stuff, and then the beginning of July we [will] start with pre-season and we work on things and keep the things that were good and try to play like we did in a few games. In a few games, we were outstanding, if we could have done this more often I think we could have had a few points more and it would have been a different picture in the table. For now, it's OK, we have a lot to improve and we will.

 

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/264457-jurgen-klopp-on-sydney-win-coaching-legends-and-transfers

[aRdja]

An Alonso - because there have been very few in history of his level and I don't think that a player in his "mold" that is only say 75% as good improves the side as much as a tactically sound player in a more defensive role does. TBH I think even a player like Kroos (another 4 man midfield player) would get run straight through playing as a single pivot in a 3 in this league.

 

Make sense?

In that pivot role it would still work better than a Kante or a Mascherano IMO. Mascherano played further forward than Alonso if you recall. He did his best work for us roaming about the pitch biting ankles, whilst Alonso held his position in front of the back four. Alonso also played very well in a three man midfield for Bayern.

[aRdja]

In saying that, I do like N’didi.

[Carvalho Diablo]

In saying that, I do like N’didi.

Haha, just posted the same in the transfer thread.

[TheHowieLama]

Again with Alonso - yes Ardja - if we can get a midfielder who is one of the greatest of his generation in the world, and one of the best to ever suit up for the club you are right. It will make the team better.