Liverpool 2 West Ham 2 (Dec 11 2016)

[tlw content]

Seven points dropped from the last 12 now. It’s hard not to be concerned by that, especially as we didn’t play anyone decent in those games. Prior to this four match stretch we were top of the table and had a real chance to build a bit of a lead before we faced City on New Year’s Eve. 
 
As it turns out, even if we’d won all of those games there still wouldn’t have been much of a gap over Chelsea because they’ve won nine straight, but we’re now six points back and just a couple of bad results away from quite possibly being out of it. 
 
I know it’s only December and there’s a long way to go, but it feels like we really needed to beat West Ham after what happened a week ago. We needed the three points to get back on track and to show that the Bournemouth result was just a careless, stupid aberration. Not beating West Ham doesn’t tell us anything definitive, but it sure as hell raises serious questions, particularly about Klopp’s unwavering faith in this goalkeeper. 
 
Karius was the focus of most people’s ire following the Bournemouth loss, but as I wrote in the report for that game he was only a small part of what went wrong. This one is different. I blame him almost entirely for us failing to beat West Ham. That might seem harsh but here's my reasoning. 
 
We needed a good start to get last week out of our system and we got it with a brilliant goal from Lallana early on. We were playing well, the crowd were into it and it was all looking good. All we needed to do was keep playing, not let West Ham score and wait until the goals came. West Ham looked like they would go the same way as Leicester, Hull and Watford and be on the wrong end of a spanking. 
 
Then Karius unforgivably gifted them an equaliser and turned everything on its head. I’m fuming about that goal even now, 24 hours later. Handling or kicking errors are one thing, they’re an occupational hazard for any keeper, but this tit basically just gave Payet an open goal, either through sheer stupidity or arrogance. 
 
I’m not being wise after the event here, as I called that goal before Payet even struck the ball, as did half the people inside Anfield I expect. Initially when I saw the position Karius had taken up just a couple of yards inside the post I thought he was still organising his wall. Then it dawned on me that he was actually going to stand there and dare Payet to put the ball over the wall into the corner he wasn’t protecting. 
 
I mean what the actual fuck? The best free kick taker in Europe and you’re giving him virtually an open goal to aim at from 25 yards out? It would have been more surprising if he hadn’t scored. Payet’s eyes will have popped out of his little fat head when he saw where Karius was standing. Bet he couldn’t wait for the ref to blow the whistle to let him take it. Just stand in the middle and make him beat you with a special strike. If he puts one in the top corner, so be it, but don't gift wrap it for him for fucks sake.
 
What makes it worse is that it wasn’t even Payet’s best effort. Karius managed to scramble across and should actually have saved it, but it went through him. What are his hands made of, fucking crisp bags? 

 

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[eeyore]

Better get used to seeing that pretty face more often. He's going nowhere

[RedKnight]

You know what? Shoulda kept Allen. Could've moved Lallana into the front three and keep Firmino up top or put Allen into that three and deploy him like Stoke do. It would have helped keep Firmino in his best spot.

 

Sick of that Newcastle jabroni 'almost' coming close to scoring in games too. He's just poor at finishing.

[Jairzinho]

Klopp’s hands are tied here. He could move him back into the middle, but then that hampers Origi, so we're no better off.

 

 

We would be better off because Firmino is shite wide left, but really good central. The difference for Origi isn't the same. Anyway, Firmino is a better footballer than Origi.

[Paul]

Deffo think Firmino has been neutered by being asked to play the Coutinho role. I'd prefer to see Lallana play there, stick Firmino back up front and

 

*grits teeth*

 

bring Can back into the middle three.

[Paul]

Gives us an option off the bench in Origi then to change things up.

[stringvest]

Deffo think Firmino has been neutered by being asked to play the Coutinho role. I'd prefer to see Lallana play there, stick Firmino back up front and

 

*grits teeth*

 

bring Can back into the middle three.

 

 

play Origi out wide and Firmino where he was playing when he was any good.  Keep Lallana where he is.  

[Jairzinho]

Firmino and Lallana have to play centrally.

 

I'd be tempted to play 4-2-3-1 with Can next to Henderson, Mane and Origi out wide, and Lallana off Firmino.

[stringvest]

Firmino and Lallana have to play centrally.

 

I'd be tempted to play 4-2-3-1 with Can next to Henderson, Mane and Origi out wide, and Lallana off Firmino.

 

 

yep.  I think that's the best we can do right now, though Origi has been scoring, so it might be a little unfair on him. 

[Pidge]

play Origi out wide and Firmino where he was playing when he was any good.  Keep Lallana where he is.  

 

This.

 

Origi won't have to be on the touchline (Phil never is anyway) and can focus on getting ahead of Firmino and attacking the far post when we play an overlap into Clyne/Mane.  He showed against Sunderland he can pick the ball up out there and make something happen.

[Paul]

Wijnaldum over Can every day of the week.

[UnwelcomeinPeru]

I'd have liked it if Allen was still here, but he's 26 and would only play when someone else is injured or needs a rest. Fine for Lucas, but not a player who's as good as him in his prime. 

 

Life is rarely a matter of black and white and that goes for the keeper. He did some decent enough things - I winced as he came out for the cross with Carroll (£35 million *shudders*), but he stood up, got a great punch in and cleaned out the striker too. But he is putting the team under pressure because most teams will have 'a spell' and you need your keeper to do his job. Dave is spot on in that he is making it too easy for teams to get goals against us, it reminds me of Reina's last season when it felt like the opposition only needed one shot on target to score a goal. Worrying.

[shouter]

I agree with everything you said about Karius. But what didn't help was what led up to free kick when Lovren did that ridiculous diving header clearance which forced Lalana to give the free kick away. It's not the first time lovren's done that.

[Paco]

I agree with everything you said about Karius. But what didn't help was what led up to free kick when Lovren did that ridiculous diving header clearance which forced Lalana to give the free kick away. It's not the first time lovren's done that.

Lallana had a bit of a Lucas moment there.

 

I have been wondering if Lovren was injured or if Klopp had enough. I don't recall that header but why was Matip one on one with Antonio for the 2nd?

 

could be clutching at straws as I haven't seen it again but apparently Lovren went off with cramp which sounds to me like Klopp used it to sub him.

[dylstar]

Think Karius should be concentrating on his goalkeeping instead of his grooming.

 

Better keeping would of had us a point behind the Chavs instead of six as it now stands.

[buster69]

We won't get a better chance to win the League in years. Who gives an actual fuck about finishing in the top 4? "But we'll get champions league football..." Yeah, great. Worked out well for Spurs didn't it? I'd rather win 1 league than 2 champions leagues. We've been waiting 27 years for fuck sake!

 

The thing that's horrific about this is that people are saying "We have to get Mignolet back in". Is this the same Mignolet that people would have preferred AIDS to only 6 months ago or am I missing something?

 

The only hope I'm clinging to is that Chelsea go through a blip themselves. Think about it: City look unstoppable, then fall to pieces. Now we do likewise. Chelsea? Well they've been on the right side of the luck over the past few weeks. That's great. But it only lasts for so long. We just have to get our own house in order to capitalize on it.

[Mathewbet1]

We need a new centre back and a new keeper

[GJM]

 

I don't recall that header but why was Matip one on one with Antonio for the 2nd?

 

 

Clyne is further up the pitch than he should be when that ball comes forward and left Matip exposed on his right side.

[Grinch]

You know what? Shoulda kept Allen. Could've moved Lallana into the front three and keep Firmino up top or put Allen into that three and deploy him like Stoke do. It would have helped keep Firmino in his best spot.

 

Sick of that Newcastle jabroni 'almost' coming close to scoring in games too. He's just poor at finishing.

 

That'll be the Joe Allen with 16 career club goals and the Wijnaldum with 75?

[Paco]

Clyne is further up the pitch than he should be when that ball comes forward and left Matip exposed on his right side.

If that was Moreno...

[lifetime fan]

You know what? Shoulda kept Allen. Could've moved Lallana into the front three and keep Firmino up top or put Allen into that three and deploy him like Stoke do. It would have helped keep Firmino in his best spot.

 

Sick of that Newcastle jabroni 'almost' coming close to scoring in games too. He's just poor at finishing.

 

 

Lallana was shit when played as a forward, he's been brilliant when played in midfield...so the answer is to play him up front???

 

And you're suggesting we replace Wijnaldum because he's not a good enough goal scorer with Allen? The Joe Allen that can't score for shit?

 

Have a lie down mate.

[Paulie Dangerously]

Think Karius should be concentrating on his goalkeeping instead of his grooming.

 

Better keeping would of had us a point behind the Chavs instead of six as it now stands.

 

repped for a proper Da comment

[Kevin D]

We won't get a better chance to win the League in years. Who gives an actual fuck about finishing in the top 4? "But we'll get champions league football..." Yeah, great. Worked out well for Spurs didn't it? I'd rather win 1 league than 2 champions leagues. We've been waiting 27 years for fuck sake!

 

The thing that's horrific about this is that people are saying "We have to get Mignolet back in". Is this the same Mignolet that people would have preferred AIDS to only 6 months ago or am I missing something?

 

The only hope I'm clinging to is that Chelsea go through a blip themselves. Think about it: City look unstoppable, then fall to pieces. Now we do likewise. Chelsea? Well they've been on the right side of the luck over the past few weeks. That's great. But it only lasts for so long. We just have to get our own house in order to capitalize on it.

Completely agree with this. If we win the champions league twice, Klopp should be sacked on the spot.

[jimmycase]

We won't get a better chance to win the League in years. Who gives an actual fuck about finishing in the top 4? "But we'll get champions league football..." Yeah, great. Worked out well for Spurs didn't it? I'd rather win 1 league than 2 champions leagues. We've been waiting 27 years for fuck sake!

 

The thing that's horrific about this is that people are saying "We have to get Mignolet back in". Is this the same Mignolet that people would have preferred AIDS to only 6 months ago or am I missing something?

 

The only hope I'm clinging to is that Chelsea go through a blip themselves. Think about it: City look unstoppable, then fall to pieces. Now we do likewise. Chelsea? Well they've been on the right side of the luck over the past few weeks. That's great. But it only lasts for so long. We just have to get our own house in order to capitalize on it.

 

 

Who knows if we wont have a better chance in future years?

 

We had a great chance in 2014 (Henderson's sending off in the last minute against city and resultant 3 game ban hurt us more than people admit), were leicester really that good or did all the expected clubs just go to shit last year?

 

Some people would put winning the CL again as a priority but this 27 year thing without the domestic title is fucking embarassing for a club our size. Id go with winning the title as the more pressing any day.

 

You can add arsenal to spurs and all. Every year they qualify for the CL and every year they go out at the quarters. Then they celebrate like they've won the title when they come 4th.