Quantcast
Joel Matip - Page 31 - FF - Football Forum - The Liverpool Way Jump to content
aRdja

Joel Matip

Recommended Posts

48 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

If you havent played for a while, you're going to feel some stiffness after a game. Hopefully, it's just a precaution and he's told to grit his teeth and play on.

Fucking hell! He'd injure his gums.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And this is why all the people saying we couldn't predict this and get cover have been talking shite. Matip injury record has been shocking since he got here and has just got worse and worse the last 2 seasons. Gomez isn't exactly a iron man either. 

 

Relying on Matip to stay fit for a month is a big enough test let alone the rest of the year. The club are going to be bent over a barrel in fees to get someone in at the start of January but the need to get it done

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lee909 said:

And this is why all the people saying we couldn't predict this and get cover have been talking shite. Matip injury record has been shocking since he got here and has just got worse and worse the last 2 seasons. Gomez isn't exactly a iron man either. 

 

Relying on Matip to stay fit for a month is a big enough test let alone the rest of the year. The club are going to be bent over a barrel in fees to get someone in at the start of January but the need to get it done

People talking about cover have been talking shite. The cover is the same as it was last season, just replace Lovren and Lallana with Fabinho going into defense, Thiago taking Fabinho's place in midfield and a bigger role for Jones. The only sound argument against the club is if someone was interested in Matip, maybe they should have sold and replaced him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fabinho is probably far better than most fourth choice CBs in the Prem so with an abundance of cover in midfield there was never any real prospect of the club spending big on a CB last summer. However there is a legitimate debate as to whether Matip should have been sold to replace him with somebody likely to be available more regularly.  

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

People talking about cover have been talking shite. The cover is the same as it was last season, just replace Lovren and Lallana with Fabinho going into defense, Thiago taking Fabinho's place in midfield and a bigger role for Jones. The only sound argument against the club is if someone was interested in Matip, maybe they should have sold and replaced him. 

Whichever way you look at it, we had 5 senior options last year at CB and only 4 this year. We had plenty of senior midfield cover last year too so not sure why you are only including Fabinho in the CB stocks for this year.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, mgw100 said:

Whichever way you look at it, we had 5 senior options last year at CB and only 4 this year. We had plenty of senior midfield cover last year too so not sure why you are only including Fabinho in the CB stocks for this year.

Because Fabinho wasn't seen as a CB last season but we clearly prepared this season with him as a real CB option in mind and we added a midfielder to make up for that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mgw100 said:

Whichever way you look at it, we had 5 senior options last year at CB and only 4 this year. We had plenty of senior midfield cover last year too so not sure why you are only including Fabinho in the CB stocks for this year.

i think fabinho got a software update in the summer. last year his data was just RB, DM, MF and after some PEDs and software updates he has now added DC to his list of attributes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Barrington Womble said:

i think fabinho got a software update in the summer. last year his data was just RB, DM, MF and after some PEDs and software updates he has now added DC to his list of attributes. 

Still got a ways to go to catch Wiji and Milner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

Because Fabinho wasn't seen as a CB last season but we clearly prepared this season with him as a real CB option in mind and we added a midfielder to make up for that.

 

But he played at CB last year. Twice I think when we had lots of injuries.. So was used as cover

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, mgw100 said:

But he played at CB last year. Twice I think when we had lots of injuries.. So was used as cover

Sure, but those were emergencies. The problem with the argument we lack cover is that if we had bought a CB that is in the upper echelon of talent without selling either Matip or Gomez, when everyone's fit, one of them wouldn't have even made the bench.

 

Or if you sign a stopgap to replace Lovren, same thing, might not make the bench. Now people will say, well Matip gets injured a lot so we would have never had that problem. Well then the issue is more with Klopp and the club because they have had no issue trusting Matip and his fitness.

 

So the only acceptable argument is maybe we should have sold and replaced Matip. Because as our squad is currently constituted, with Thiago and the depth we have in midfield, having 4 senior CB's made no sense. Too many bodies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Carrying a 4th CB would mean we lose who off the squad - Shaqiri?

 

It would be interesting to see how many games all 4 CB's were available last season. Don't know how to look it up but it can't be more than about 6 - even then one will have been just coming back.

Lovren was unavailable more often than not.

 

 

We know already how many it will be for this season.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Carrying a 4th CB would mean we lose who off the squad - Shaqiri?

 

It would be interesting to see how many games all 4 CB's were available last season. Don't know how to look it up but it can't be more than about 6 - even then one will have been just coming back.

Lovren was unavailable more often than not.

 

 

We know already how many it will be for this season.

That's another argument I'd be willing to hear. Maybe we should have sold and sacrificed a midfielder, maybe Wijnaldum, and have an extra CB take his squad spot. And then Fabinho would have remained strictly a midfielder. Maybe the way the squad is set up was a bit of a mistake.

 

Shaqiri, to be fair, doesn't really make the bench much either. But keeping the same number of midfielders, plus adding Thiago, plus adding a CB was clearly not in the cards. Too bloated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

Honestly thought Milner would go to Leeds. 

Be interesting to see how much he plays this year.

I doubt we'll see him start many games, he'll get plenty of minutes from the bench though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Honestly thought Milner would go to Leeds. 

Be interesting to see how much he plays this year.

Yeah it became a bit of a fan theory that he would go back there this summer.

 

I think he will get more game time now as we will need his leadership more, plus Henderson and Fabinho will end up at centre back at some point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

People talking about cover have been talking shite. The cover is the same as it was last season, just replace Lovren and Lallana with Fabinho going into defense, Thiago taking Fabinho's place in midfield and a bigger role for Jones. The only sound argument against the club is if someone was interested in Matip, maybe they should have sold and replaced him. 


Agree the cover is about the same as last season, and it wasn’t good enough last season either. We got away with it because the best CB this league has ever seen stayed fit, performed like a monster and covered up for just about everything there was to cover up for, including the inconsistency of Matip and Gomez, mainly caused by injury, and the madness of Lovren.


We shouldn’t have gone for the 4th choice CB you keep harping on about, we should have gone for a good, young CB ready to challenge Martip and Gomez for a starting place. This is what people said in the summer and in a couple of previous transfer windows. You can’t build a squad to fight all fronts with only three CBs, and definately not when two of them are injured half the time.

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:


Agree the cover is about the same as last season, and it wasn’t good enough last season either. We got away with it because the best CB this league has ever seen stayed fit, performed like a monster and covered up for just about everything there was to cover up for, including the inconsistency of Matip and Gomez, mainly caused by injury, and the madness of Lovren.


We shouldn’t have gone for the 4th choice CB you keep harping on about, we should have gone for a good, young CB ready to challenge Martip and Gomez for a starting place. This is what people said in the summer and in a couple of previous transfer windows. You can’t build a squad to fight all fronts with only three CBs, and definately not when two of them are injured half the time.

 

I've said it in two posts on this page after the one you quoted. If you want to say that having 3 CB's is an issue, the root cause of that is because we have constructed this squad on the back of having loads of depth in midfield. Like I said, if you keep the same number of midfielders we currently have and add a 4th CB, there would be an important player in this squad that wouldn't even make the bench.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 3 Stacks said:

I've said it in two posts on this page after the one you quoted. If you want to say that having 3 CB's is an issue, the root cause of that is because we have constructed this squad on the back of having loads of depth in midfield. Like I said, if you keep the same number of midfielders we currently have and add a 4th CB, there would be an important player in this squad that wouldn't even make the bench.

 


If you never get injuries or bans then yes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:


If you never get injuries or bans then yes. 

So what you're saying is Klopp and the club just forgot to factor someone might get injured? Bit comical that, I'm sure they're aware that was a possibility.

 

They just decided to build the squad with big numbers in midfield because of the versatility that offers. We have 8 midfielders for 3 spots. That's huge. You have to factor that in when criticizing the decisions made as it pertains to the lack of CB's in the squad. If you don't do that, it's just not fair criticism.

 

By the way, if you were to criticize the way the team is built, that would be fair. Or that Matip should have been sold or replaced because he gets injured too much. I've conceded that. You can even say we should have bought a CB instead of Thiago and that would be coherent, although I'd disagree with you. But just saying, oh we should have bought a CB is a nothing statement. It doesn't take into consideration the numbers we already had in the squad.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

So what you're saying is Klopp and the club just forgot to factor someone might get injured? Bit comical that, I'm sure they're aware that was a possibility.

 

They just decided to build the squad with big numbers in midfield because of the versatility that offers. We have 8 midfielders for 3 spots. That's huge. You have to factor that in when criticizing the decisions made as it pertains to the lack of CB's in the squad. If you don't do that, it's just not fair criticism.

 

By the way, if you were to criticize the way the team is built, that would be fair. Or that Matip should have been sold or replaced because he gets injured too much. I've conceded that. You can even say we should have bought a CB instead of Thiago and that would be coherent, although I'd disagree with you. But just saying, oh we should have bought a CB is a nothing statement. It doesn't take into consideration the numbers we already had in the squad.


I think it’s very obvious that we need to manage the size of the squad, due to financial and other reasons. And in that context people have pointed out that we lack sufficient quality cover at CB. I’ve said for years that a solid squad, built to compete on several fronts, need 3-4 quality CBs. Depending on a number of factors obviously, including the quality of the youngsters behind those senior squad members, and also other options like Fabinho provides. Three senior CBs, of which two are injury prone, always seemed like a gamble. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, TheHowieLama said:

If I had never heard of Fabinho and we paid 30m for him as a CB and he came on like he did v Chelsea I would have thought we got a steal.


Agree. And hopefully he’s got it in him to do that on a regular basis. If he does, the lack of cover at CB is far less of a problem.  Will be a very nice surprise if he’s able to perform consistently at CB. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:


I think it’s very obvious that we need to manage the size of the squad, due to financial and other reasons. And in that context people have pointed out that we lack sufficient quality cover at CB. I’ve said for years that a solid squad, built to compete on several fronts, need 3-4 quality CBs. Depending on a number of factors obviously, including the quality of the youngsters behind those senior squad members, and also other options like Fabinho provides. Three senior CBs, of which two are injury prone, always seemed like a gamble. 

Sure. I think it's fair to say to your point that not selling Wijnaldum in the last year of his deal or keeping Milner, especially now that we have cover at left back, instead of buying a 4th CB may have been a mistake. The club went in another direction. It is what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×