The Burning Question: How do you grade our summer dealings?

[Sputnik1]

EVERYTHING in the garden is rosy. We have Jürgen Klopp as manager. We’re gonna win the league.

Oh, hang on a minute.
To what extent have we actually strengthened? Is Klopp capable of managing his pruned squad into contenders for the title or, if you’re not that bothered with the glory game, the empty chalice that is the top four?
P.S. It is early days, I know, but we’re 11th. Are we destined for another season competing with the also-rans?

 

I find myself oscillating between these two moods. Why can’t I be consistent? Because I’m a Liverpool fan and I want to win. I’m in no mood for hanging around and as a supporter first and foremost, my emotions aren’t always a bastion of rationale.
After Arsenal, I was bathing in the light of the rosy garden. After Burnley and Spurs — where five points were ceded frustratingly to title rivals — I have stumbled into a darker room. I detest deadline day with a passion but when the transfer window slammed shut, my eyes and equilibrium also adjusted to the dropping of an opaque blind.

 

Examining the Reds’ summer transfers, the hard facts of the matter are that Liverpool FC is in profit; only two Premier League clubs with a healthier summer balance sheet. This at a time when the eighth richest club in the world is awash with cash from a TV bonanza.

Making my guarded views public, via the insane medium of Twitter, brings out not so much the FSG apologists — though they do feature — but the staunchest of Klopp advocates.
Wails of “It’s what Klopp wants” and “It’s what Klopp did at Dortmund” most accurately sum up the defence of our cautious summer activity.

While Liverpool struggled during the middle third of last season, fans castigated the legacy of the players left at Klopp’s disposal. They bemoaned the timing of his appointment and insisted with a cull, his own men brought in, a punishing pre-season, and time to drill in his methods on the training ground everything would suddenly improve.

It’s an understandable argument given Klopp’s recruitment and development of young footballers at Borussia Dortmund and their high-intensity style which brought consecutive Bundesliga crowns. But, is Klopp the only manager in the Premier League capable of instilling high-octane fitness into his players? Are Jose Mourinho, Pep Guardiola, and Antonio Conte, and dare I say Ronald Koeman, not also adept at coaching the best from their players; training their charges to realise more than the sum of their more expensively assembled parts?

 

If leaving some blindingly obvious gaps in the quality of the Reds’ squad is “What Klopp wants”, I’m struggling to get behind that. Most supporters would admit there is a clear issue at left-back. The manager himself recognised that in dropping Alberto Moreno in favour of James Milner.
In his recent interview with Gary Lineker, Klopp explained that he doesn’t want questions from players asking why they’re not in the team; explaining the obvious conclusion is that they’re not good enough. So, think of another question Albie, other than “OK, why am I still here, gaffer?”
Most would agree that Milner at left-back is a sticking plaster; a plodding right-footed midfield yeoman in a modern game that demands pace from full-back. A dubious improvement on a fleet-footed leftie prone to suspect decision-making.

 

I hear from fans that Klopp “Won’t spend money for the sake of it”, which alludes to there being no upgrade at left-back in world football available at the right price.
If that really is Jürgen’s opinion then I’d prefer to see the German adhere to his development philosophy and coach improved positional sense into Moreno. I’m not fussy on the alternative; to persist with honest medium-pacer Milner who was caught out by a long ball in the build up to Spurs’ equaliser last weekend.

If the left side of defence is the most obvious area to stick the boot in, we remain short in other positions. Cover for Nathaniel Clyne on the opposite flank appears non-existent and if Mamadou Sakho has been told he won’t play first-team football again this season, then we’re an injury or suspension away from Ragnar Klavan having to erase his Burnley nightmare from our consciousness.
The Burnley reverse also asks questions of the driving force and creativity in a midfield three of Jordan Henderson, Gini Wijnaldum and Adam Lallana. Perhaps the eventual return of Emre Can partially resolves this issue, but if Liverpool had any real desire to go into the red during the window then an inventive bona fide midfielder with scope and pace to go past his man wouldn’t have gone amiss. Proven players of this ilk cost money and therein lies the rub.

 

What are the alternatives? How do we ensure a consistent spread of goals across matches, rather than racking up the occasional four or five when we’re allowed to play?
To me, unless Klopp envisages a diversion from false nines and/or one up front, the Reds will always struggle to create chances against teams who recognise our counter attacking strength and happily defend in numbers or “park the bus”.

 

Compounding concerns over breaking teams down (Burnley) and converting superiority into goals (Spurs) — home and away — is a confused picture up front. Danny Ings looks short of quality and opportunity and Divock Origi (still a novice) is struggling to recapture last season’s effervescence. When we do inevitably revert to fielding a stock-in-trade goalscorer, Daniel Sturridge remains, by a distance, the best poacher on the books.

 

Aside from the obvious — that his body no longer allows work-rate prerequisite for the Klopp pressing game — I’m struggling to make sense of the manager’s handling so far of a clearly disgruntled player; unless he legitimately feels that Sturridge with a point to prove is in his most potent mindset.
It seems increasingly fanciful to imagine Klopp and Sturridge not locking horns. However, following on from his omission at Arsenal, a stint on the right against Burnley and a needless snub at the hands of Origi and eventual 88th minute introduction at Tottenham (after goals in midweek at Burton) the only wonder is that a “surprise” Sturridge departure wasn’t the late gatecrasher to SKY’s deadline day party.

I constantly hear that Klopp “wants to wait” for his preferred targets and doesn’t want to spunk money like Brendan Rodgers. Bundesliga lads Mahmoud Dahoud and Christian Pulisic possibly fall into this category as we fiddle while another season burns.
Don’t hold your breath for January. The modern Liverpool FC has an array of excuses for waiting, particularly in winter. Two league titles shrivelled on the vine of January inertia and neglectful reliance on David N’Gog and Iago Aspas.

 

For transfer window balance, Sadio Mane, a long-held Klopp target, looks a fabulous signing. Wijnaldum shows promise as a midfield runner, supporting counters in the mould of a Terry McDermott. Joel Matip — on a sample of one league game — looks a classy centre-half. Loris Karius, arriving with a reputation much bigger than his transfer fee, still has to forge his way past an improved Simon Mignolet. Each acquisition has Klopp’s fingerprints all over it and for that, at least, we have to be thankful.

 

But is that all that Klopp really wants? I beg to differ and I hope I’m right.
I really want to win the league but I’m not convinced we’ve tried hard enough to achieve that this summer or even establish a bridge to challenge next year. Klopp — or the club (whatever that means these days) — might be happy to wait, but I’m not. Do you what you can and do it now.
I’m not going to apologise on anyone’s behalf for thinking that careful recruitment and development is what FSG want and they have a happy coincidence that Klopp views himself of the arch proponent of that strategy. It might work in this league — or it might not — but too much is being gambled on a wing and a prayer.

Perhaps at the root of all this Jürgen has been told to keep schtum. His paymasters might have had a word. Six year contracts are good for apparent stability when prospective suitors are sniffing around.
When we take our Liverpool FC and Jürgen Klopp blinkers off, maybe we look at a long list of departures –offset by some potentially prudent first-team investments that keep us competitive — and accept our transfer strategy this summer wasn’t all about the football.

 

However, as much we want to believe in Klopp wanting to play it his way and still win the unfair EPL game, our 2016 recruitment was more about respectfully taking part than the winning. Admirable soundbites pertaining to an ethical way of working in this game of dirty morals have been swallowed hook, line and sinker.

 

FSG might soon have another, more extensive profit to calculate from their portfolio. Analyse those healthy balance sheets again and ponder that eyes weren’t fixed exclusively on the glory this summer but instead cast to the riches of the Far East.

 

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2016/09/liverpool-transfer-troubles-has-jurgen-klopps-strategy-made-us-title-winners-or-contenders/

[General Dryness]

I think there's an awful lot of blame being shoved at FSG for not giving Klopp any money when every indication is that he didn't want any more money.

 

You can't actually believe that, surely mate?

 

The board says "you can spend another 20 or 30 million if you like", and there isn't a manager in football that would say "nah, you're alright thanks."

 

If theres money, it gets spent. If there isn't, it doesn't.

[magicrat]

You can't actually believe that, surely mate?

 

The board says "you can spend another 20 or 30 million if you like", and there isn't a manager in football that would say "nah, you're alright thanks."

 

If theres money, it gets spent. If there isn't, it doesn't.

Is the answer

 

More likely imo he's been asked to wait and kick out the dead wood and he'll get some funding when the Chinese deal is done, Given Klopp is not a quick fix merchant I can see why he may have been receptive to that idea. 

[Sputnik1]

Anyone would think these chinese whispers had been planted as a distraction for them pocketing the tv money. 

[Ne Moe Imya]

You can't actually believe that, surely mate?

 

The board says "you can spend another 20 or 30 million if you like", and there isn't a manager in football that would say "nah, you're alright thanks."

 

If theres money, it gets spent. If there isn't, it doesn't.

 

I think there is a manager in world football who would say that, and I think he works for Liverpool Football Club.

 

He has given countless interviews about this, unless you think he is a pathological liar then you have to say that's what he thinks.  You can disagree with him, and to a certain extent I do, but it's pretty hard to make the argument that Klopp actually wanted another 30m to buy a few more players.

[Russ Atmosphere]

Remember when Klopp wasn't looking for a new goalkeeper, a German one, and told the press they were making it up.

[Jairzinho]

Remember when Klopp wasn't looking for a new goalkeeper, a German one, and told the press they were making it up.

 

Yes, or "Allen's a top, top player. Really important to...£13m you say? Goodbye"

[magicrat]

Yes, or "Allen's a top, top player. Really important to...£13m you say? Goodbye"

Exactly , large portions of scepticism to be taken with all things football related

[jimmycase]

I think there is a manager in world football who would say that, and I think he works for Liverpool Football Club.

 

He has given countless interviews about this, unless you think he is a pathological liar then you have to say that's what he thinks.  You can disagree with him, and to a certain extent I do, but it's pretty hard to make the argument that Klopp actually wanted another 30m to buy a few more players.

 

This.

 

I also think Klopp is very aware of how Liverpool's past late in the window panic buys have worked out.

 

Ive expressed my surprise at a lack of a left back but if Klopp's happy with the position I have to trust him. Still think I'll go off like a kettle if moreno costs us stupid goals though.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

5-6 - the net spend is slightly misleading due to the good deals for Karius and Matip, however it's maddening not to address the holes when we've saved money elsewhere. Who quits when they're ahead? We do.

 

Count me as one of the gullible ones though, as I reckon this window is pretty much all on Klopp. The overall framework of not spending big on any older players or competing with wages is on FSG - as it's always been - but not going after a left back or DM is on Klopp. You can usually tell when a manager has been afforded more power to shape the squad by the amount of youngsters that get booted, and Klopp's not spared the younglings.

 

I think he views this season as his first; after a proper pre-season and with Kornmayer on board to hopefully help the players cope with the intensity of his football. Pare back the squad and see how a core group fare without the extra strain of European competition. I just don't think LB was a priority, and he rates certain players higher than the fans.

 

I don't like it, as during the inevitable injury crisis it'll bite us in the arse, but it seems the factors Klopp looks for in potential signings aren't lining up with what fans desire (especially me). The midfield is still a sea of mincing queefs in many eyes; however, Allen could tackle and was jettisoned because, I'd wager, he couldn't transition quickly and his sprinting looked like a child toddling after an ice cream van. On the other hand, Henderson and Lallana are as intimidating as the tough ones in a boy band, but they have athletic attributes that mean they appeal to a coach who believes he can improve players.

 

That's what I think this window represents most of all, one overseen by a coach who backs his own nous to improve what he has. The most telling answers Klopp's given all summer were the ones where he was clearly just getting pissed off with the questions about buying more players. He had digs at Bayern about buying so many players, and has continually tried to find new ways to utilise those players who have the right mindset to learn. He should have brought in a LB, but he thinks Milner has the attributes to perform there as well as any player who could be available to us in our present state.

 

It's still a bit of a shit window, but if he wants to turn doubters into believers, then he's got enough doubters now - I'm doubtful our Dirty Dozen approach will work, especially in a defence that could end up with Milner and a kid at fullback, and Lucas at CB - but it he pulls it off then no one will question this kind of madness again.

[andyj]

7-8  yes we need a left back  but im waiting to see if Gomez is our long term plan  for that  the lad owned that position before he got injured.Think klopp went all in on Dahoud aswell but the sale of Xahka to Arsenal  put pay to that.I do however like the fact we have not wasted money just for the sake of it  like we have over the last 2 summers but on the other hand  if we really  what a player i wish we would stop fucking about with this low ball  bidding and just pay up because it wastes time and allows other teams to jump the queue 

[Guest Alex_K]

Makes the early Hicks and Gillet years of Mascherano, Torres and Snoogy Doogy look like the halcyon days.

 

Fool us once under Rodgers; fool us twice under Klopp. The policy of speculative purchases without the high wages of established players is clearly an edict from the top regardless of the manager. The small successes we've had over the past years have very much been despite FSG and not because of them: as another recent transfer thread highlighted, it's been one abomination after another. We've got Wengers stubbornness to thank for not losing Suarez to Arsenal. The phrases "what are they smoking at Arsenal" and "we'll never do a Tottenham" come to mind when considering what an oblivious catastrophe this group of owners have been on the playing side.

[Tourt]

I voted 5-6.

 

Wide player: Mane 8/10 - Looks a good player

Centre mid: Wijnaldum 4/10 - Not what we need, we already have Milner and Hendo who could do his job of running around harassing people. We needed someone who could control the midfield and this guy ain't it.

Centre back: Matip, Klavan 7/10 - They look solid enough

Goalkeeper: Karius 7/10 - I've never seen him play so it's more out of hope...

Left back: .... 4/10 - I don't rate Moreno as poorly as most people, but some competition for him would be ideal.

My initial impressions are while none of our new lads seem poor, Wijnaldum and Karius are average to good, Matip and Grujic good to very good and Mane very good, occasionally excellent but never superlative.

 

No idea of Karius.

 

As school reports go, overall the transfers were good but could have been better.

 

 

6/10.

[G Richards]

A solid 7/10. 

 

Could have been better. Could have been worse. 

 

Some key signings to go into the first team in areas that really needed to be upgraded, including Karius, Matip, Mane (what a start from him so far). Then Klavan seems an experienced solid citizen, and Wijnaldum, who so far is not bad/not great, but you suspect there's more to come once the midfield settles down a bit, probably with Can at the base. Grujic for the future, too. 

 

Outgoing has been very good - so good in fact that lots of people are moaning about the net spend being in the black. I'm not so sure that this will happen again. We had a bloated squad and a lot of teams have more cash than ever, so we sold players for good money. Is right! About time! For far too long we've sold players for a pittance, but great progress was made on that front this summer. 

 

Left back seems the glaring omission from the deals we made. We'll have to wait and see what Milner and Moreno do, but almost every fan would agree that this is a big miss this summer. 

 

Arguably we need a midfielder and a striker, but you get the impression that these will be big singings in a future window, while Klopp makes use of what he currently has at his disposal. 

 

I'm chilled about the whole thing. We've improved, and we will see that as the season progresses. With that said, there's still more to do, but Klopp has made a useful start. 

[Tony Moanero]

Makes the early Hicks and Gillet years of Mascherano, Torres and Snoogy Doogy look like the halcyon days.

 

Fool us once under Rodgers; fool us twice under Klopp. The policy of speculative purchases without the high wages of established players is clearly an edict from the top regardless of the manager. The small successes we've had over the past years have very much been despite FSG and not because of them: as another recent transfer thread highlighted, it's been one abomination after another. We've got Wengers stubbornness to thank for not losing Suarez to Arsenal. The phrases "what are they smoking at Arsenal" and "we'll never do a Tottenham" come to mind when considering what an oblivious catastrophe this group of owners have been on the playing side.

.

[JoeBuck]

Not sure this transfer window is FSG 's fault.  Thus far in their 5 full seasons, they have spent £40m net and even backed Kenny and Rodgers (last summer) when they didn't see them as their long term options.

 

Think Klopp has a bit of Wenger about him as he only wants to sign players he can mould and develop - he doesn't even want to sign stars he has previously developed.

 

Given this, maybe Jurgen has 3/ 4 players he wanted to sign, and was financially back to sign, but who weren't ready to come to us - Hector (maybe his wife is pregnant and doesn't want the move this summer), Coric (wants to help out Zagreb in the CL), Dahoud (another season needed in Germany/ his club won't let him go yet) etc.

 

In keeping with his Wengeresque mentality, no doubt Klopp is ready to wait for these players, especially with his new 6 year contract. 

 

This is a good thing right and he / the owners shouldn't be slated for it. Of course the irony is if we get the new Chinese investment and have money to spend on established stars and like Arsenal, will have a manager reluctant to do so..  

 

Do we sell our soul like United and go for the hated Mourinho for a bit of short term bought glory, or keep to a long term project.  After all, it did take Shankly four and half years to make us into champions. 

[3 Stacks]

I think the Klopp/Wenger comparison is probably spot on in the sense that Klopp wants to be financially sound and won't pay high fees unless it's for a top talent or a player he really wants. Saying that, I don't think for one second that he doesn't want to buy stars and just wants to develop players because that simply makes no sense. No manager who has money to spend thinks that way.

 

Even Wenger will spend big for class players like Alexis and Ozil, and Klopp would absolutely do the same if given the chance. But I think, like Wenger, he's reticent to pay over the odds for anyone he doesn't think is worth his price, even if that player would fill a need in the squad.

[DirkDiggledinho]

4/10 - Have to admit despite my early skepticism Mané has looked very good so far and should add some badly needed pace to the side. However, I fail to see what Wijnaldum adds in the role he is being played and the lack of a new left back to replace the donkey that is Alberto Moreno is nothing short of insane.

 

Throw in a couple more signings that look good on paper but have yet to really play (Matip, Karius) and the rating could go up, but it's obvious to me that the massive holes in the team we have inexplicably failed to fill will cost us dearly yet again, and there's really no excuse for failing to do anything about it.

 

The "well, Klopp doesn't want to spend money on the wrong player" line is a very flimsy one in my opinion. Far better to take a punt on a LB and a controlling midfielder who may not work out than have no-one there and resort to using 30 year old James Milner to plug in the gaps. What are our scouts for? Are we really saying there is nobody available to us in world football right now better than Alberto Moreno? After finishing the transfer window as pretty much the only club of any note making a huge profit? Nah, not for me.

 

Klopp clearly isn't stupid, but the decisions that have been made are daft. Something stinks, I'm sure he'll try and make it work but it's very hard to believe this is what he wanted to do. It'll be interesting to see if things remain so cordial if the season goes down the shitter early doors.

[RobbieOR]

I think we've bought well and got players the manager wanted. I also think it's a bit ridiculous to be judging this after three games and two of which we've taken points away at our top 4 rivals.

[The Maca]

"Thus far in their 5 full seasons, they have spent £40m net "

- do you think that is acceptable Joe Buck ?

 

 

That's championship spending in my opinion

[johnsusername]

We're a good stepping stone for Mane. Hopefully we'll get £80m for him in a year or two from a team who wants to win things. Nice big profit. The money will add an extra wing to John and Linda's holiday home in the Hamptons.

[Paco]

We're a good stepping stone for Mane. Hopefully we'll get £80m for him in a year or two from a team who wants to win things. Nice big profit. The money will add an extra wing to John and Linda's holiday home in the Hamptons.

They're massachusetts. Martha's Vineyard.

[JoeBuck]

£40m net each season. Not great, but not bad.

 

My point is they would have probably backed Jurgen had he been able to obtain what he wanted this summer, instead of having to wait until next.

 

Paisley converted Ray Kennedy from decent forward to left midfield to allow him more space on the ball and take advantage of his runs into the box.  

 

Jurgen probably worked out that , in the modern game when each team crowds the middle of the pitch,  the full back positions have most time and space on the ball, so why not put one of your most clever, effective and hard working players out there.

 

In Jurgen we trust! - sound familiar ;)

[ngogswilly]

Obviously early doors and no one knows how the season will pan out but can't shake that feeling of here we go again mainly due to the fact we simply haven't addressed the left back issue.

 

In addition I still think we're diabolical at set pieces and that'll continue to cost us a lot of points. Matip and Kariaus might help though as time goes on.

 

Also we're gash in the middle of the park and still struggle to stop teams cutting through us with ease. I'm not confident a midfield two of Henderson and Can will stop that anytime soon. 

 

All that being said I'm hopeful Mane will win us a few games single handedly this year. It might just make up for the points we're likely to drop from not addressing glaring weaknesses in the squad. 

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

Some potentially very good business, bringing in some key players and shifting a lot of dead weight, marred significantly by the lack of a LB and DM.

 

6/10

 

Hope I'm proven wrong though.