ISIS - To Attack or Not?

[Oh Buoy]

I see that ISIS have very kindly produced a leaflet explaining exactly why they hate the west and will continue to attack. Makes interesting reading.

 

I can't wait for the Netflix Original series.

[dennis tooth]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/535893/prime-minister-theresa-may-terror-suspect-wanted-india-allowed-remain-UK-home-office

[Spy Bee]

How does a ground attack work against a stateless enemy?

Exactly. Most recent acts of terrorism (for want of a better phrase) have been committed by US or EU nationals.

[Rico1304]

Looks like 2 of the horrifically named ‘Beatles’ are in custody and claiming their rights have been violated as the UK has revoked citizenship.

 

Can’t seem to raise any sympathy if I’m honest.

[cloggypop]

We should rename them. Maybe The Troggs or The Animals unless someone else can suggest a more apt UK 60s beat combo.

[littletedwest]

Looks like 2 of the horrifically named ‘Beatles’ are in custody and claiming their rights have been violated as the UK has revoked citizenship.

Can’t seem to raise any sympathy if I’m honest.

Big internal fued as apparently nobody wanted be jihadi ringo

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Not arsed.

 

British or stateless, they're not going to enjoy liberty ever again.

 

No real need to muddy the waters with legal challenges re: their nationality. But, equally, I'm not that arsed if they get fucked over a bit.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Looks like 2 of the horrifically named ‘Beatles’ are in custody and claiming their rights have been violated as the UK has revoked citizenship.

 

Can’t seem to raise any sympathy if I’m honest.

I always thought it was a bit weird and pointless renouncing their citizenship.  Why not just leave it, to make it simpler to prosecute them under UK law?

[Rico1304]

I always thought it was a bit weird and pointless renouncing their citizenship.  Why not just leave it, to make it simpler to prosecute them under UK law?

I guess it’s ‘reap what you sow’ - but they’ve committed a crime abroad, suffer the consequences.

[SasaS]

I always thought it was a bit weird and pointless renouncing their citizenship.  Why not just leave it, to make it simpler to prosecute them under UK law?

 

 

I always thought it was done so they can be killed as enemy combatants or something, to avoid legal controversy such as when SAS was given a go ahead for extra-judicial killings of IRA members in the '80s, if they acted as an Active Service Unit?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I guess it’s ‘reap what you sow’ - but they’ve committed a crime abroad, suffer the consequences.

I just think it'd be easier to make them suffer the consequences if it was clear which legal system they were to be prosecuted under.

[Rico1304]

I always thought it was done so they can be killed as enemy combatants or something, to avoid legal controversy such as when SAS was given a go ahead for extra-judicial killings of IRA members in the '80s, if they acted as an Active Service Unit?

I don’t think it’s happened before. Not really the same as the Gibraltar case either, they were active terrorists. Shoot to kill was bollocks.

[SasaS]

What do you mean bollocks? They were given card blanche to take out IRA members when on a mission (ASU). Gibraltar, Laughgall and others.

[Lee909]

I think the whole point of the removal is as mentioned clears the way for a drine strike. Ir for rendition to a US site without the legalities of being complicit in uk citizens being tortured

[Anubis]

It's easy to feel comfortable with the removal of citizenship for people like this. Of course, that's not really the concern. The concern is if, having set a precedent, the same government or another down the line, decide to extend that to other types of transgression. I'd prefer to keep citizenship and deal with them judicially.

 

This is all part of legalising drone-striking of our own citizens.

[Lee909]

Spot on

Once them laws are in place its easy to start redefining there use. If they have committed a crime them they should be punished for that crime and to the best of my knowledge we have no death penalty. So locked them up on their own for the rest of their natural life as they will always be a threat.

[Rico1304]

Absolutely agree, death penalty is horrific. But they aren’t here, they are in Syria. Why have them back?

[Lee909]

If the Syrians want to convict snd inprison him let them. If they want to deport him they let either the UK or US take him to court for his crimes and inprison them.

 

Seeing as out governments are always bitching they cant send criminals back because of their rights we cant be stopping our own sent back for trial

[Rico1304]

If the Syrians want to convict snd inprison him let them. If they want to deport him they let either the UK or US take him to court for his crimes and inprison them.

Seeing as out governments are always bitching they cant send criminals back because of their rights we cant be stopping our own sent back for trial

We shouldn’t be asking for them back. If they are sent back fair enough but why go to the expense and have them radicalise others in uk prisons. They made a choice, fuck em. They are crying because they’ve been captured, not because they’ve changed their minds.

[Lee909]

Agree

Im not saying ask for them back

But if Syria decide to deport them then yes US or the US should take them and they should be tried in court.

[Oh Buoy]

TLW judgement table

 

Let her back in or not? 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181

 

One of three schoolgirls who left east London in 2015 to join the Islamic State group says she has no regrets, but wants to return to the UK.

In an interview with the Times, Shamima Begum, now 19, talked about seeing "beheaded heads" in bins - but said that it "did not faze her".

Speaking from a refugee camp in Syria, she said she was nine months pregnant and wanted to come home for her baby.

She said she'd had two other children who had both died.

She also described how one of her two school friends that had left the UK with her had died in a bombing. The fate of the third girl is unclear.

• Families flee last IS village in Syria
• After the caliphate: Has IS been defeated?
• London schoolgirl 'feared dead in Syria'

'It was like a normal life'

Bethnal Green Academy pupils Ms Begum and Amira Abase, were both 15, while Kadiza Sultana was 16, when they left the UK in February 2015.

They flew from Gatwick Airport to Turkey after telling their parents they were going out for the day. They later crossed the border into Syria.

After arriving in Raqqa, she stayed at a house with other newly arrived brides-to-be, she told the Times.

"I applied to marry an English-speaking fighter between 20 and 25 years old," she said.

Ten days later she married a 27-year-old Dutch man who had converted to Islam.

She has been with him since then, and the couple escaped from Baghuz - the group's last territory in eastern Syria - two weeks ago.

Her husband surrendered to a group of Syrian fighters as they left, and she is now one of 39,000 people in a refugee camp in northern Syria.

Asked by Times journalist Anthony Loyd whether her experiences of living in the one-time IS stronghold of Raqqa had lived up to her aspirations, Ms Begum said: "Yes, it did. It was like a normal life. The life that they show on the propaganda videos - it's a normal life.

"Every now and then there are bombs and stuff. But other than that..."

She said that seeing her first "severed head" in a bin "didn't faze me at all".

"It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam.

"I thought only of what he would have done to a Muslim woman if he had the chance," she said.

"I'm not the same silly little 15-year-old schoolgirl who ran away from Bethnal Green four years ago," she told Mr Loyd.

"I don't regret coming here."

'I always thought we'd die together'

But Ms Begum said the "oppression" had come as a "shock" and said she felt the IS "caliphate" was at an end.

"I don't have high hopes. They are just getting smaller and smaller," she said. "And there is so much oppression and corruption going on that I don't really think they deserve victory."

She referred to her husband having been held in a prison where men were tortured.

Image copyrightMET POLICE Image captionKadiza Sultana, Amira Abase and Shamima Begum (l-r) in photos issued by police

A lawyer for the family of Kadiza Sultana said in 2016 that she was believed to have been killed in a Russian air strike.

Ms Begum told the Times her friend had died in a bombing on a house where there was "some secret stuff going on" underground.

She added: "I never thought it would happen. At first I was in denial. Because I always thought if we got killed, we'd get killed together."

'Scared this baby is going to get sick'

Ms Begum said losing two children "came as a shock. It just came out of nowhere, it was so hard".

Her first child, a girl, died at the age of one year and nine months, and was buried in Baghuz a month ago.

Her second child - the first to die - died three months ago at the age of eight months, of an illness that was compounded by malnutrition, the Times reports.

She told the paper she took him to a hospital. "There were no drugs available, and not enough medical staff," she said.

As a result she said she was "really overprotective" of her unborn child.

She said this concern also contributed to her decision to leave Baghuz.

"I was weak," she said. "I could not endure the suffering and hardship that staying on the battlefield involved.

"But I was also frightened that the child I am about to give birth to would die like my other children if I stayed on."

She said she remained scared her unborn baby would become ill in the refugee camp.

"That's why I really want to get back to Britain because I know it will be taken care of - health-wise, at least," she said.

She said she should be giving birth "any day now".

"I'll do anything required just to be able to come home and live quietly with my child."

IS has lost control of most of the territory it overran, including its strongholds of Mosul in Iraq and Raqqa in Syria.

However, fighting continues in north-eastern Syria, where the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) say they captured dozens of foreign fighters in recent weeks.

[Rico1304]

Still can’t see any reason to have her back.  Feel for the baby.  

[VladimirIlyich]

53 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Still can’t see any reason to have her back.  Feel for the baby.  

That's the only reason she'd be considered. It also reads a bit like a The Onion article.

[Bjornebye]

Yes bring her and the baby back. Send her to jail and allow the baby to have the upbringing it deserves. 

 

After that interview she is on borrowed time over there. 

[Anny Road]

Let them rot.