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ISIS - To Attack or Not?


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3 minutes ago, Dave D said:

Ah, good- all humourous now its clear shes a fruit loop- despite your pleading that "her head isnt in the right place"and "she was just a kid" 

 

 

She was just a kid - she was being groomed as a minor.  

 

The pop concert stuff, I dunno but I kind of agree with the point she was making.  I don't agree that it was justifiable but I do think there's a chance that the Manchester victims would still be alive had David Cameron not launched air strikes on Syria.  

 

There is no doubt in my mind that British foreign policy in the 21st century has created fertile conditions for groups like ISIS to emerge. 

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2 minutes ago, TK421 said:

She was just a kid - she was being groomed as a minor.  

 

The pop concert stuff, I dunno but I kind of agree with the point she was making.  I don't agree that it was justifiable but I do think there's a chance that the Manchester victims would still be alive had David Cameron not launched air strikes on Syria.  

 

There is no doubt in my mind that British foreign policy in the 21st century has created fertile conditions for groups like ISIS to emerge. 

 

Many Kurds in Kobane and various other people probably wouldn't.

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5 minutes ago, TK421 said:

She was just a kid - she was being groomed as a minor.  

 

The pop concert stuff, I dunno but I kind of agree with the point she was making.  I don't agree that it was justifiable but I do think there's a chance that the Manchester victims would still be alive had David Cameron not launched air strikes on Syria.  

 

There is no doubt in my mind that British foreign policy in the 21st century has created fertile conditions for groups like ISIS to emerge. 

Nope- no "point" to be made whatsoever.

 

Such "fertile" conditions are added to by apologists like yourself

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One thing which did stand out from the new interview was the fact she's wearing a headscarf.  Not particularly notable, except it stood out in contrast to the photo that's been regularly published taken (I assume) not long before she left without any covering at all.  Like I say, it's not a surprise she's wearing one now (or in the photo's of her when she left), but highlighted a possible change to a more conservative mindset to me.

 

The Manchester comments just further highlight her ignorance for me, she didn't know much detail about it at all.  Could well have diverted to how these attacks are rationalised through internal propaganda.

 

Still don't want her to return by the way, but also don't see why the principles that would allow her to wouldn't apply. 

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5 minutes ago, Dave D said:

Nope- no "point" to be made whatsoever.

 

Such "fertile" condition are added to by apologists like yourself

The UK does not come to this argument with clean hands.  We need to ask why young people like Shamima Begum find groups like ISIS appealing, and see if there is anything we can do differently as a society to lessen the likelihood of that appeal. 

 

We need to tone down the Islamophobic rhetoric in mainstream media and in society generally.  That would be a start.   

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11 minutes ago, TK421 said:

She was just a kid - she was being groomed as a minor.  

 

The pop concert stuff, I dunno but I kind of agree with the point she was making.  I don't agree that it was justifiable but I do think there's a chance that the Manchester victims would still be alive had David Cameron not launched air strikes on Syria.  

 

There is no doubt in my mind that British foreign policy in the 21st century has created fertile conditions for groups like ISIS to emerge. 

There's an increasing amount of jihadis and their associates who mention UK/Western foreign policy as a factor that motivated their atrocities. Terrorism experts mention it too. Despite all that, some people on here just won't have it.

 

Their actions aren't "justified" by anything, given how horrendous they are, but it's as clear as day that foreign policy is one of many factors that motivates these people. It's not far removed from an an eye for an eye way of thinking. 

 

Maybe we, as a society, have been conditioned to shrug off murdered brown kids as collateral damage, so that's why we can't fully appreciate it when other societies view such acts as something that stirs emotions of anger, revenge etc. 

 

It's not apologism. It's reality. 

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1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

You are a racist gobshite 

You lazy cunt

 

Explain what is racist about wanting to legally deter people from joining an organisation that wants you dead. If thats not what makes me a racist, explain what does.

 

You see, throwing around insults like that from the safety of your computer without any reason or proof makes you a coward. Call me a gobshite all day long, not bothered. 

 

I will be very surprised if you have the bottle to come back on this.

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19 minutes ago, Pidge said:

One thing which did stand out from the new interview was the fact she's wearing a headscarf.  Not particularly notable, except it stood out in contrast to the photo that's been regularly published taken (I assume) not long before she left without any covering at all.  Like I say, it's not a surprise she's wearing one now (or in the photo's of her when she left), but highlighted a possible change to a more conservative mindset to me.

 

The Manchester comments just further highlight her ignorance for me, she didn't know much detail about it at all.  Could well have diverted to how these attacks are rationalised through internal propaganda.

 

Still don't want her to return by the way, but also don't see why the principles that would allow her to wouldn't apply. 

 

What? In a woman who spent four years as an ISIS bride?

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No, from the girl she possibly was and the girl who was convinced to leave to join them.  The current images just highlighted something I hadn't really considered when looking at the story previously.  It's all still just an extension of what I've said previously which is that I don't think we can know for sure how much she made a free, determined decision and how much she was manipulated to that point.

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42 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

There's an increasing amount of jihadis and their associates who mention UK/Western foreign policy as a factor that motivated their atrocities. Terrorism experts mention it too. Despite all that, some people on here just won't have it.

 

Their actions aren't "justified" by anything, given how horrendous they are, but it's as clear as day that foreign policy is one of many factors that motivates these people. It's not far removed from an an eye for an eye way of thinking. 

 

Maybe we, as a society, have been conditioned to shrug off murdered brown kids as collateral damage, so that's why we can't fully appreciate it when other societies view such acts as something that stirs emotions of anger, revenge etc. 

 

It's not apologism. It's reality. 

 

I must admit I have have never heard of a jihadi that didn't speak about western foreign policy. 

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1 hour ago, A Red said:

You lazy cunt

 

Explain what is racist about wanting to legally deter people from joining an organisation that wants you dead. If thats not what makes me a racist, explain what does.

 

You see, throwing around insults like that from the safety of your computer without any reason or proof makes you a coward. Call me a gobshite all day long, not bothered. 

 

I will be very surprised if you have the bottle to come back on this.

Just the fact you are a r*ngers fan. Id happily say it to your face as well but I have to admit i'm a bit surprised that you took it seriously at all because it certainly wasn't. 

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I’m still at a loss to the “what made her go over there though?” thought process. Do the people saying that we should consider that point do so with every decision made by every person ever, therefore clearing all blame? I doubt it. 

 

There’s also the not-so underlying accusation that this national rejection is because she’s Muslim. Really? You honestly don’t think if you replace her with the exact situation, but someone of another race or religion, that people would say the same? The difference is that no other religious group is currently waging a terror war on us. 

 

Also, why when tracing reason to actions back does that process always end with UK actions? Why is there never mitigating circumstances to their actions?

 

If you have listened to her interviews and still honestly think she should come back, I’m at a loss. We should just disband all our national security measures in that case - what’s the point detecting potential danger entering the country when we allow people who are totally open about it in?

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2 minutes ago, belarus said:

I’m still at a loss to the “what made her go over there though?” thought process. Do the people saying that we should consider that point do so with every decision made by every person ever, therefore clearing all blame? I doubt it. 

 

There’s also the not-so underlying accusation that this national rejection is because she’s Muslim. Really? You honestly don’t think if you replace her with the exact situation, but someone of another race or religion, that people would say the same? The difference is that no other religious group is currently waging a terror war on us. 

 

Also, why when tracing reason to actions back does that process always end with UK actions? Why is there never mitigating circumstances to their actions?

 

If you have listened to her interviews and still honestly think she should come back, I’m at a loss. We should just disband all our national security measures in that case - what’s the point detecting potential danger entering the country when we allow people who are totally open about in?

I liken it to a cult. When the Feds strormed Wako or and found a girl who'd been there since she was 15 and up the duff, would they have told her to stay in salt lake city or wherever the fuck or would they have put her through the justice/psychological evaluation system?

 

There's a definite tinge of 'Britain first' tinged with 'benefits scrounger angst' type spiel to all this.

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8 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Just the fact you are a r*ngers fan. Id happily say it to your face as well but I have to admit i'm a bit surprised that you took it seriously at all because it certainly wasn't. 

You call me a racist and then say it wasn't serious. I think you need to understand that it is a serious accusation to make, one that should be used only when you are sure of yourself and can back it up. Its a bit like calling someone an anti-Semite, paedophile or wife beater with no proof, its cheap and cowardly.

 

The Rangers bit is bollocks, there is no way you would dare say that to any Rangers fan you met, its just silly bravado. Even my appearance might make you think twice. Its also bigotry, something you have displayed on this subject before - a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.  

 

Despite the above and our differences I think you are probably a good well meaning person. You've also got balls.

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10 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

There's an increasing amount of jihadis and their associates who mention UK/Western foreign policy as a factor that motivated their atrocities. Terrorism experts mention it too. Despite all that, some people on here just won't have it.

 

Their actions aren't "justified" by anything, given how horrendous they are, but it's as clear as day that foreign policy is one of many factors that motivates these people. It's not far removed from an an eye for an eye way of thinking. 

 

Maybe we, as a society, have been conditioned to shrug off murdered brown kids as collateral damage, so that's why we can't fully appreciate it when other societies view such acts as something that stirs emotions of anger, revenge etc. 

 

It's not apologism. It's reality. 

You and TK keep referring to skin colour- no one else does

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34 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I liken it to a cult. When the Feds strormed Wako or and found a girl who'd been there since she was 15 and up the duff, would they have told her to stay in salt lake city or wherever the fuck or would they have put her through the justice/psychological evaluation system?

 

There's a definite tinge of 'Britain first' tinged with 'benefits scrounger angst' type spiel to all this.

I think Waco was completely different. The people there werent looking to kill innocent people outsdie of their cult or invade other countries.

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