ISIS - To Attack or Not?

[Dave D]

5 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

I don't know what happened in the years before she decided to up and leave. But, I'm still struggling to see why people are ruling this out as a possibility. 

 

It's all a bit tiresome now. Hyperbolic jingoism seems to be the go to on this, with comments like "she gave up the right to be British when she joined ISIS" etc. That's just opinion. The facts and reality say entirely different. 

Of course they do, but it does not excuse her actions or ignore the threat she may now pose- if they are proved as having foundation then its difficult to subscribe to the view of applying the letter of the law- it becomes a special case            

[Pureblood]

Just now, Dave D said:

You certainly cannot rule it out but Im sure attempts at grooming are rife in Tower Hamlets/Bethnal Green. You would just hope she would see that life in East London as being preferable- it seem like the pregnancy along with the fact that they are on borrowed time in Syria has led her to think she would head back here out of convenience at this present time aside anything else.

 

Surely her experiences of such a war torn place would now show her older self the folly of her actions- as it stands, it would seem not- which is bizarre/worrying.

 

          

I guess it depends upon what you mean by preferable.  The thought process might have gone something like "everyone here hates Muslims, people like Rico and iPlop look at me funny, I think I might fuck off somewhere else".  Then she gets promised a normal life away from all that in some sort of utopia (she refers to the propaganda videos). 

[Bruce Spanner]

As the late, great philosopher Terence Trent D'Arby once proposed...

 

'The symptoms are so deep
it is so much too late
To turn away
We started out as friends'

 

We are all to balme and in turn responsible for this abhorrent human.

 

 

[Dave D]

1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

As the late, great philosopher Terence Trent D'Arby once proposed...

 

'The symptoms are so deep
it is so much too late
To turn away
We started out as friends'

 

We are all to balme and in turn responsible for this aborahnt human.

 

 

repped...............I think............!

[Pidge]

18 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Read hubby fled Holland after his terror cell was exposed. If she does reunite with him it won’t be here. If she returns and isn’t prosecuted she will have to go elsewhere to see him provided he isn’t dead or imprisoned.

Negative thinking.

 

With any luck we could land a murderous, paedophile fascist into the bargain.  After all, the kid needs a father...

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

3 minutes ago, Dave D said:

Of course they do, but it does not excuse her actions or ignore the threat she may now pose- if they are proved as having foundation then its difficult to subscribe to the view of applying the letter of the law- it becomes a special case            

The rule of law is more important. She should be arrested and charged etc, if she gets back, and subjected to close surveill etc. And don't help her to get back. 

 

But, if we allow the government to act outside the law, it's a slippery slope. 

[Dave D]

2 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I guess it depends upon what you mean by preferable.  The thought process might have gone something like "everyone here hates Muslims, people like Rico and iPlop look at me funny, I think I might fuck off somewhere else".  Then she gets promised a normal life away from all that in some sort of utopia (she refers to the propaganda videos). 

Agree to an extent- bit harsh on Iplop and Rico- they almost certainly wouldnt look at her funny, they may vent off on here, but most people are pretty tolerant regardless of view when it comes to actual physical reality.  

 

Add to that, Id imagine Iplop and Rico would be the ones getting the funny looks in her neck of the woods. 

 

Not sure the life she got promised in Syria was "normal" by the standards she was accustomed to by the age of 15 in East London 

[Oh Buoy]

6 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

As the late, great philosopher Terence Trent D'Arby once proposed...

 

'The symptoms are so deep
it is so much too late
To turn away
We started out as friends'

 

We are all to balme and in turn responsible for this abhorrent human.

 

 

 

Nah, I'm boss. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

8 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

As the late, great philosopher Terence Trent D'Arby once proposed...

 

'The symptoms are so deep
it is so much too late
To turn away
We started out as friends'

 

We are all to balme and in turn responsible for this abhorrent human.

 

 

He’s not dead.  Although ‘ If you let me stay ‘ is quite apt.

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, Dave D said:

Agree to an extent- bit harsh on Iplop and Rico- they almost certainly wouldnt look at her funny, they may vent off on here, but most people are pretty tolerant regardless of view when it comes to actual physical reality.  

 

Add to that, Id imagine Iplop and Rico would be the ones getting the funny looks in her neck of the woods. 

 

Not sure the life she got promised in Syria was "normal" by the standards she was accustomed to by the age of 15 in East London 

Thanks, I wouldn’t look at anyone funny, but he’s playing to the crowd.  She on the other hand dismissed a head in a bin because it wasn’t the right kind of Muslim and was happy.  But I’m the baddy remember. 

 

 

[Pureblood]

2 minutes ago, Dave D said:

Agree to an extent- bit harsh on Iplop and Rico- they almost certainly wouldnt look at her funny, they may vent off on here, but most people are pretty tolerant regardless of view when it comes to actual physical reality.  

 

Add to that, Id imagine Iplop and Rico would be the ones getting the funny looks in her neck of the woods. 

 

Not sure the life she got promised in Syria was "normal" by the standards she was accustomed to by the age of 15 in East London 

I don't think this is the case.  A lot of Muslims, particularly women, are living in fear and are subjected to abuse or attacks. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/muslim-students-universities-islamophobic-national-union-students-nus-prevent-duty-a8260176.html

[polymerpunkah]

If she had commited a crime in the UK at 15 which would result in the same sort of prison sentence, then fled to a country with an extradition treaty with the UK, would the UK now be seeking her extradition?

 

 

[Dave D]

2 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

The rule of law is more important. She should be arrested and charged etc, if she gets back, and subjected to close surveill etc. And don't help her to get back. 

 

But, if we allow the government to act outside the law, it's a slippery slope. 

The government has and always will act outside of the law, too late for that.

 

In fairness, Im sure in some cases it actually helps.

 

There are certainly  lawyers that would queue up to defend every activist/war criminal regardless of guilt, applying the letter of law

[Dave D]

3 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I don't think this is the case.  A lot of Muslims, particularly women, are living in fear and are subjected to abuse or attacks. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/muslim-students-universities-islamophobic-national-union-students-nus-prevent-duty-a8260176.html

Im not sure muslim women in Bethnal Green would feel persecuted- if anything, probably enjoying more freedom than some muslim nations.

 

But we get to a deeper debate.....    

[Oh Buoy]

8 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Thanks, I wouldn’t look at anyone funny, but he’s playing to the crowd.  She on the other hand dismissed a head in a bin because it wasn’t the right kind of Muslim and was happy.  But I’m the baddy remember. 

 

 

 

There's got to be some trauma there. I read the head in the bin comment with a pinch of salt. If you lived in a place where chopping off willies was the going thing you'd probably be a little blase if someone asked you about a willy in a bin. 

 

"We often threw them at each other because it didnt snow. Dickballs we called them. It was great fun, even for the kids". 

[Pureblood]

Just now, Dave D said:

Im not sure muslim women in Bethnal Green would feel persecuted- if anything, probably enjoying more freedom than some muslim nations.

 

But we get to a deeper debate.....    

You speak for Muslim women in Bethnal Green?  

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, Dave D said:

The government has and always will act outside of the law, too late for that.

 

In fairness, Im sure in some cases it actually helps.

 

There are certainly  lawyers that would queue up to defend every activist/war criminal regardless of guilt, applying the letter of law

The all have to defend the clients, cab rank.  

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, .̯. said:

 

There's got to be some trauma there. I read the head in the bin comment with a pinch of salt. If you lived in a place where chopping off willies was the going thing you'd probably be a little blase if someone asked you about a willy in a bin. 

 

"We often threw them at each other becayse it didnt snow. Dickballs we called them. It was great fun, even for the kids". 

She’d lived in London all her life then saw a head in a bin a few weeks after arriving.  

[Rico1304]

8 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I don't think this is the case.  A lot of Muslims, particularly women, are living in fear and are subjected to abuse or attacks. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/muslim-students-universities-islamophobic-national-union-students-nus-prevent-duty-a8260176.html

That numbers in that article are based on the victim self identifying the cause of the crime to be racism.  If you accept that in Muslims then it’s got to be the same for Jews- yes? 

[TheHowieLama]

5 minutes ago, TK421 said:

You speak for Muslim women in Bethnal Green?  

Somebody has to

[Oh Buoy]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

She’d lived in London all her life then saw a head in a bin a few weeks after arriving.  

 

I doubt she just hopped on a plane and went to Syria without a sense of what was happening. It's not like they showed a picture of New York and when she arrived it looked like Blackpool but with heads blowing about everywhere. She'll have seen videos and began the desensitisation. The same happens when kids take their own lives. 

[Pureblood]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

That numbers in that article are based on the victim self identifying the cause of the crime to be racism.  If you accept that in Muslims then it’s got to be the same for Jews- yes? 

I don't understand the question.

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, .̯. said:

 

I doubt she just hopped on a plane and went to Syria without a sense of what was happening. It's not like they showed a picture of New York and when she arrived it looked like Blackpool but with heads blowing about everywhere. She'll have seen videos and began the desensitisation. The same happens when kids take their own lives. 

So we shouldn’t be surprised she was blasé because she knew exacty what was happening? Hardly a defence of her actions is it?  

[TheHowieLama]

17 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I don't think this is the case.  A lot of Muslims, particularly women, are living in fear and are subjected to abuse or attacks. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/muslim-students-universities-islamophobic-national-union-students-nus-prevent-duty-a8260176.html

This is a great point, about the women specifically -- it would have been far more powerful if you had not tried to frame it.

Islamaphobes are the least of their worries. 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, TK421 said:

I don't understand the question.

A/S has been denied as being the root of abuse towards Jewish people by non-Jews.  I’m crossing the streams.