ISIS - To Attack or Not?

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 hours ago, Pidge said:

First para: hence why I said she should be allowed to return.

 

Second para: hence why I said her views need to be further assessed beyond the soundbites.

 

Third para: I haven't said anything like that. 

Exactly what a racist might pretend to say.

[Dave D]

11 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

She's a UK citizen.  She's not applying for asylum or anything.  Like all UK citizens she should have the right to return to the UK and to be tried for any crimes she may have committed. 

 

She left the UK when she was not yet old enough to vote and she spent 3 years in a cult. She's still a teenager. It's really not that surprising that she has not yet reappraised her views of ISIS and their actions. 

 

I can't bring myself to shrug and say "Fuck her. She knew what she was doing. She'll never change.  Leave her where she is and let her third child go the way of her first two. "

However she aligned herself with people that would think just that on countless occasions when killing people. She also does not seem to regret it. The guy that blew himself in Manchester was born here, had gone to fight in Libya and fell in with a faction of ISIS. When the shit hit the fan out there he was rescued by the Navy, aloNg with other UK citizens and safely returned to the UK.   

You could pick apart both situations, especially considering she is pregnant, but I think its understandable there would be those with strong reservations on her returning, enforced by the lack of any show of understanding that it was the wrong thing to do in the first place 

[Pureblood]

2 hours ago, Dave D said:

However she aligned herself with people that would think just that on countless occasions when killing people. She also does not seem to regret it. The guy that blew himself in Manchester was born here, had gone to fight in Libya and fell in with a faction of ISIS. When the shit hit the fan out there he was rescued by the Navy, aloNg with other UK citizens and safely returned to the UK.   

You could pick apart both situations, especially considering she is pregnant, but I think its understandable there would be those with strong reservations on her returning, enforced by the lack of any show of understanding that it was the wrong thing to do in the first place 

If by "aligned herself" you mean that she was targeted and groomed I would agree.

 

She has a legal right return.  Sajid Javid knows this, but decided to cash in on the political angle with his tough talking bullshit.  He is a disgrace for doing that and should be kicked squarely in the cunt. 

 

 

[Boss]

12 minutes ago, TK421 said:

If by "aligned herself" you mean that she was targeted and groomed I would agree.

 

She has a legal right return.  Sajid Javid knows this, but decided to cash in on the political angle with his tough talking bullshit.  He is a disgrace for doing that and should be kicked squarely in the cunt. 

 

 

How was she targeted and groomed exactly? Her dad is affiliated with Anton Choudary and the girls ran off out of their own volition. Here's her dad alongside one of Lee Rigby's killers. 

 

[Strontium]

We had this before, that's the dad of one of her mates she ran off with.

[Boss]

5 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

We had this before, that's the dad of one of her mates she ran off with.

Oh okay, my apologies.

[Pureblood]

27 minutes ago, Boss said:

How was she targeted and groomed exactly?

Because she was 15.

[polymerpunkah]

If not groomed, then raised.

 

But is "raised" not even more of a reason to look into her motivation for going to Syria?

 

 

 

[Rico1304]

Has anyone got a link to explain how she was groomed?  Or are we assuming she was?  

 

If she actively sort out ISiS propaganda, liked what she saw, decided it was for her and went. Has she been groomed?  

[Pureblood]

5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Has anyone got a link to explain how she was groomed?  Or are we assuming she was?  

 

If she actively sort out ISiS propaganda, liked what she saw, decided it was for her and went. Has she been groomed?  

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/14/shamima-begum-grooming-islamic-state-pregnant-uk

[Rico1304]

9 minutes ago, TK421 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/14/shamima-begum-grooming-islamic-state-pregnant-uk

Ta.  I read that and a couple of other articles.  Seems her grooming consisted of people telling her the caliphate was great because they were wiping out everyone who disagreed with them.  

[aws]

Leave her where she is. Give the SDF the funding they need to look after the hundreds/ thousands of Western jihadists they're holding.  

[Section_31]

1 hour ago, polymerpunkah said:

If not groomed, then raised.

In the Levant is where she spent most of her days.

[polymerpunkah]

If not born, bred.

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

17 hours ago, cochyn said:

 

Where's Max Clifford when you need him?

She's too old for him.

[cochyn]

6 hours ago, SasaS said:

She is a widow? I thought they said the husband surrendered to some rebel forces.

Not only was she not old enough to vote when she left, she was not legally old enough to give consent to being fingered, sex-texted or even kissed by a Sunderland footballer.

My bad. He'll be dead to her for surrendering in shame and not dying a martyr to the cause.

 

Their reunion would be one episode of 'Surprise Surprise!' I'd watch though. 

 

Where's Cilla Black when you need her?

 

[Dave D]

3 hours ago, TK421 said:

If by "aligned herself" you mean that she was targeted and groomed I would agree.

 

She has a legal right return.  Sajid Javid knows this, but decided to cash in on the political angle with his tough talking bullshit.  He is a disgrace for doing that and should be kicked squarely in the cunt. 

 

 

The grooming is an assumption, regardless of Guardian articles.

 

 

[Pureblood]

Just now, Dave D said:

The grooming is an assumption, regardless of Guardian articles.

 

 

She was 15.  Let's assume the grooming began, say, 12 months earlier making her 14.  Do you think that at that age she would be fully capable of forming her own decisions in respect of such complex matters and making fully informed choices in her best interests?  Besides which, a person below the age of 18 is not allowed to leave home without parental consent which, based on the known facts, she did not have.

 

I'm not one who buys into the whole radicalisation thing, but by virtue of her age alone she was vulnerable to persuasion.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Sajid Javid was the same when we had the Iranian refugee "crisis" the other month, making bold statements that he wouldn't be able to carry out, from a legal point of view. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Read hubby fled Holland after his terror cell was exposed. If she does reunite with him it won’t be here. If she returns and isn’t prosecuted she will have to go elsewhere to see him provided he isn’t dead or imprisoned.

[Pureblood]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

Ta.  I read that and a couple of other articles.  Seems her grooming consisted of people telling her the caliphate was great because they were wiping out everyone who disagreed with them.  

Even if you're right and she did it all off her own back, which seems highly unlikely, her age must be taken into account. 

[Dr Nowt]

17 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

She's too old for him.

 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Just now, TK421 said:

She was 15.  Let's assume the grooming began, say, 12 months earlier making her 14.  Do you think that at that age she would be fully capable of forming her own decisions in respect of such complex matters and making fully informed choices in her best interests?  Besides which, a person below the age of 18 is not allowed to leave home without parental consent which, based on the known facts, she did not have.

 

I'm not one who buys into the whole radicalisation thing, but by virtue of her age alone she was vulnerable to persuasion.

I don't know what happened in the years before she decided to up and leave. But, I'm still struggling to see why people are ruling this out as a possibility. 

 

It's all a bit tiresome now. Hyperbolic jingoism seems to be the go to on this, with comments like "she gave up the right to be British when she joined ISIS" etc. That's just opinion. The facts and reality say entirely different. 

[Dave D]

1 minute ago, TK421 said:

She was 15.  Let's assume the grooming began, say, 12 months earlier making her 14.  Do you think that at that age she would be fully capable of forming her own decisions in respect of such complex matters and making fully informed choices in her best interests?  Besides which, a person below the age of 18 is not allowed to leave home without parental consent which, based on the known facts, she did not have.

 

I'm not one who buys into the whole radicalisation thing, but by virtue of her age alone she was vulnerable to persuasion.

You certainly cannot rule it out but Im sure attempts at grooming are rife in Tower Hamlets/Bethnal Green. You would just hope she would see that life in East London as being preferable- it seem like the pregnancy along with the fact that they are on borrowed time in Syria has led her to think she would head back here out of convenience at this present time aside anything else.

 

Surely her experiences of such a war torn place would now show her older self the folly of her actions- as it stands, it would seem not- which is bizarre/worrying.

 

          

[TheHowieLama]

7 minutes ago, TK421 said:

 

I'm not one who buys into the whole radicalisation thing, but by virtue of her age alone she was vulnerable to persuasion.

As are kids of that age to any influence - it could be gangs or white supremacist groups or the Catholic church FFS.

All organizations "recruit". Very few of them do it successfully to individuals not receptive to their message.