ISIS - To Attack or Not?

[Babb'sBurstNad]

7 minutes ago, SasaS said:

It works militarily is what I mean, if you want to defeat an enemy, bombing the shit out of the said enemy works. ISIS was militarily defeated by a coordinated effort on and off the battlefield, and I don't see any other way of dealing with them.

Now, propaganda effort would probably focus on stories how great life is now they are defeated, not so much on them wanting to get back because they are defeated. Dream of the Islamic State is dead, they will have to regroup and resurface, probably in the northern Iraq as the Sunny or one of the Sunny factions, which would not be so appealing to westerners.

 

I don't disagree that that's where the main propaganda push will focus, but I still feel this is a story being allowed to tarry in the headlines for a reason. It's more nuanced than one about some kind of post ISIS utopia.

[SasaS]

10 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

 

I don't disagree that that's where the main propaganda push will focus, but I still feel this is a story being allowed to tarry in the headlines for a reason. It's more nuanced than one about some kind of post ISIS utopia.

 

Possibly. Maybe the story's aim is to test the waters, how the public feels about the aftermath, what to do with the British jihadis and those in the lower ranks. Judging by the activity in this thread, this seems to be a hot issue, maybe a bit more than the justification for some future bombing campaigns.

[TheHowieLama]

3 hours ago, Lee909 said:

 

Yeah pretty sure had she just said "lads, this is a bit of a shit hole and your all loons" they've have driven her to the Turkish border for the first flight home. 

Yep 

3 hours ago, TK421 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if there have been zero successful prosecutions of people like her returning from Syria.  So if she is sent to jail, it could be a first. 

Do you think there is a chance that someone who has spent a fair amount of time within that "organization" may return as a sleeper?

2 hours ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Sure I read somewhere 150 returning ISIS member had been prosecuted.

 

It is difficult to think that a person in this day would not have a pretty clear picture of what they were getting into, and would not support it.

[TheHowieLama]

 

[Pureblood]

4 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Do you think there is a chance that someone who has spent a fair amount of time within that "organization" may return as a sleeper?

 

Yes.

[Leyton388]

She made her bed so she should lay in it. Begging to come back now IS are pretty much finished. 

 

No thanks 

[Pureblood]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/15/mi6-chief-britons-joined-isis-cannot-stopped-returning-shamima-begum

 

The family were dismayed by the home secretary Sajid Javid’s seemingly tough talk in a newspaper interview where he said he may use powers to revoke her British passport or temporarily exclude her from entering the country – assuming she could find a way to leave the camp and get to an airport.

 

Their solicitor, Tasnime Akunjee, said the battle to bring Begum home could see her family take the home secretary to court: “Our view is that this would be illegal because they would make her a stateless person, in breach of international law. We are surprised the home secretary does not understand international law, or care about international law.  “If he were to attempt to put such orders on, we would explore all legal options to block his unlawful actions or appeal. If we can get an injunction, we will.”

[Rico1304]

27 minutes ago, TK421 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/15/mi6-chief-britons-joined-isis-cannot-stopped-returning-shamima-begum

 

The family were dismayed by the home secretary Sajid Javid’s seemingly tough talk in a newspaper interview where he said he may use powers to revoke her British passport or temporarily exclude her from entering the country – assuming she could find a way to leave the camp and get to an airport.

 

Their solicitor, Tasnime Akunjee, said the battle to bring Begum home could see her family take the home secretary to court: “Our view is that this would be illegal because they would make her a stateless person, in breach of international law. We are surprised the home secretary does not understand international law, or care about international law.  “If he were to attempt to put such orders on, we would explore all legal options to block his unlawful actions or appeal. If we can get an injunction, we will.”

I think I’ve been saying this for 2 days. 

 

Amazing that the racist Turdseye has been pontificating. 

[Scott_M]

2 hours ago, Leyton388 said:

She made her bed so she should lay in it. Begging to come back now IS are pretty much finished. 

 

No thanks 

I completely agree but would have used more aggressive language.

[magicrat]

All this faux outrage from twats like Javid just diversionary tactics to whip up the frothing knobheads and take their minds off Brexit. The stupid girl will probably get back here and hopefully prosecuted.  

[cochyn]

58 minutes ago, TK421 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/15/mi6-chief-britons-joined-isis-cannot-stopped-returning-shamima-begum

 

The family were dismayed by the home secretary Sajid Javid’s seemingly tough talk in a newspaper interview where he said he may use powers to revoke her British passport or temporarily exclude her from entering the country – assuming she could find a way to leave the camp and get to an airport.

 

Their solicitor, Tasnime Akunjee, said the battle to bring Begum home could see her family take the home secretary to court: “Our view is that this would be illegal because they would make her a stateless person, in breach of international law. We are surprised the home secretary does not understand international law, or care about international law.  “If he were to attempt to put such orders on, we would explore all legal options to block his unlawful actions or appeal. If we can get an injunction, we will.”

And so it begins. Whether she comes back or not is almost moot. Despite lack of consular support, it is her right. Due process will prevail. I suspect she'll do some low-cat chokey whilst her kid goes into the care system. 

 

What you can guarantee though is the army of shonky advocates using the ensuing shitstorm to get their noses in the trough of litigation. Looking to sue the gov.com whilst using the eposure to further their own 'human rights' creds. Fucking scumbags.. 

[Rico1304]

10 hours ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

I only called one racist a racist and yes, that’s because he’s been racist for years, evidenced by his racist posting history. The big racist.  

Are you racist? 

[Captain Turdseye]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

Are you racist? 

 

I challenge you to find one racist post I’ve made on this forum. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

We're all racist, as we're products of racialised societies, John Barnes says so.

 

If you disagree with him that makes you doubly racist, which is worse.

[Boss]

27 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

I challenge you to find one racist post I’ve made on this forum. 

 

Challenge accepted

 

27 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

I'm a racist!

 

[Leyton388]

I see her Dad is saying she should be allowed to come home and face no punishment or prosecution as she was "Only a teenager" when she left. 

 

Last time I checked being a member of a terrorist organisation was illegal. If that's his attitude you can see the apple didn't fall far from the tree. MI5 need to check his hard drive. 

[Pureblood]

Father in wanting to protect his heavily pregnant daughter shocker. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Are you racist? 

I'm racist and so's my wife.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

57 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

I hate brown people.  

.

[Pidge]

Do I want her back in the country - no.

 

Should she be allowed back in the country - unfortunately, yes.

 

The tragedy seems to be that she learned nothing from the experience.  Well, that's not the  tragedy, but certainly a tragedy.  Her words suggest a total lack of perspective about the atrocities she has been supporting.  However, she does mention corruption and oppression, so questioning (which, along with detainment, I do believe are necessary) may find out there's more to it than being reported. 

 

Regardless I see no reason why the country should act to enable her return, unless she is in direct danger of torture or execution.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

22 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Do I want her back in the country - no.

 

Should she be allowed back in the country - unfortunately, yes.

 

The tragedy seems to be that she learned nothing from the experience.  Well, that's not the  tragedy, but certainly a tragedy.  Her words suggest a total lack of perspective about the atrocities she has been supporting.  However, she does mention corruption and oppression, so questioning (which, along with detainment, I do believe are necessary) may find out there's more to it than being reported. 

 

Regardless I see no reason why the country should act to enable her return, unless she is in direct danger of torture or execution.

She's a UK citizen.  She's not applying for asylum or anything.  Like all UK citizens she should have the right to return to the UK and to be tried for any crimes she may have committed. 

 

She left the UK when she was not yet old enough to vote and she spent 3 years in a cult. She's still a teenager. It's really not that surprising that she has not yet reappraised her views of ISIS and their actions. 

 

I can't bring myself to shrug and say "Fuck her. She knew what she was doing. She'll never change.  Leave her where she is and let her third child go the way of her first two. "

[cochyn]

End of the day, she's a widow with two dead kids, another on the way. She's seen her husband killed at war, she's 'seen things' all before leaving her teenage years. If this were 1985, she'd make a great 'Jackie' magazine photo story. 

 

Where's Max Clifford when you need him?

[Pidge]

7 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

She's a UK citizen.  She's not applying for asylum or anything.  Like all UK citizens she should have the right to return to the UK and to be tried for any crimes she may have committed. 

 

She left the UK when she was not yet old enough to vote and she spent 3 years in a cult. She's still a teenager. It's really not that surprising that she has not yet reappraised her views of ISIS and their actions. 

 

I can't bring myself to shrug and say "Fuck her. She knew what she was doing. She'll never change.  Leave her where she is and let her third child go the way of her first two. "

First para: hence why I said she should be allowed to return.

 

Second para: hence why I said her views need to be further assessed beyond the soundbites.

 

Third para: I haven't said anything like that. 

[Jennings]

I find it hard to summarise how I feel about these three girls' situation in a brief sentence. Its complicated. My heart breaks for the families though.

[SasaS]

10 hours ago, cochyn said:

End of the day, she's a widow with two dead kids, another on the way. She's seen her husband killed at war, she's 'seen things' all before leaving her teenage years. If this were 1985, she'd make a great 'Jackie' magazine photo story. 

 

Where's Max Clifford when you need him?

She is a widow? I thought they said the husband surrendered to some rebel forces.

11 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

She left the UK when she was not yet old enough to vote and she spent 3 years in a cult. She's still a teenager. It's really not that surprising that she has not yet reappraised her views of ISIS and their actions. 

 

Not only was she not old enough to vote when she left, she was not legally old enough to give consent to being fingered, sex-texted or even kissed by a Sunderland footballer.