ISIS - To Attack or Not?

[A Red]

36 minutes ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

I don't think the situations are analogous at all. The wives of IRA members typically didn't travel half way across the globe to marry them. There is also the simple fact that there is no practical distinction between civilian and combatant in Isis, as everyone is working towards the same divinely-inspired goal, of enabling an Islamic caliphate to conquer the Middle East.

To be fair if there was a warrant for Mrs Adams arrest, she'd probably just eat it

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Anubis The Jackal said:

Bring her back. If she’s done something wrong she can face the legal system, as she should.

 

This

 

57 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

I think it's a disgrace that those on social media who claim they want to "look after our own first" don't want to do anything to help this British citizen. 

And this.

 

Sajid Javid, the Daily Heil and the latest version of Hades can all fuck off. 

 

"Let us start from a sense of humanity..."

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 hours ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

I've just read that only 1 in 10 jihadis returning to the UK from Syria have actually been prosecuted, the vast majority have simply been placed on "rehabilitation schemes".

Any idea how many went over there? 

[Lee909]

7 minutes ago, belarus said:

Joe Rogan does my head in generally, but that doesn’t mean that he isn’t sometimes able to offer a balanced and practical opinion. You’re going all partisan again - you don’t like him so everything he says is bollocks.

 

If my post drives a reaction from you along the “takes the biscuit” lines, then I’m not surprised you are unable to deal with posts and conversations where people offer actual and real opinions. 

I don't think Rogan is balanced anymore

A few years back maybe, but these days he just talks over anyone not agreeing with him gives platforms to some major dickheads who he seems to agree with with the easy ride he gives them. Stopped listening a while back, only pick out a podcast if it's someone interesting. 

[Pureblood]

9 out of 10 jihadis prefer rehabilitation. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

3 minutes ago, Hank Moody said:

Any idea how many went over there? 

800+ I read somewhere.

[SasaS]

1 hour ago, A Red said:

That is a very good question, something i alluded to in my first post in this thread. Why didnt we arrest Mrs Adams, Mrs Mcguinness et all?

 

Didn't they try something similar at first, with the interment of known sympathizers, not exactly the wives but arresting people without specific charges? It backfired spectacularly.

With the ISIS girl, I guess you would have to investigate what did she actually do, she didn't travel there just to be the wife of a jihadi, but on the other hand, going to live in the Caliphate is not the same as participating in propaganda, grooming others over the Internet etc. If she was stripped of the citizenship, her age should be taken into consideration, if she wasn't, she has to be allowed back, investigated and tried if necessary.

[Pureblood]

In all probability there will be insufficient evidence to prosecute her with anything serious enough to put her away for long, if you listen to the experts.  Very difficult to obtain sufficient evidence for stuff happening in Syria.  

[Lee909]

Any idea of letting these cunts in charge decide they can strip people citizenship is fucking downright crazy. A very fucking dangerous slippery slope that won't just be used in terrorism related cases in the long run

[Numero Veinticinco]

8 minutes ago, TK421 said:

9 out of 10 jihadis prefer rehabilitation. 

Hardly a deterrent, is it. What a horrible situation. 

[Pureblood]

1 minute ago, Hank Moody said:

Hardly a deterrent, is it. What a horrible situation. 

You can't deter an ideology.  The criminal justice system is not the answer, in my opinion. 

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, Lee909 said:

Any idea of letting these cunts in charge decide they can strip people citizenship is fucking downright crazy. A very fucking dangerous slippery slope that won't just be used in terrorism related cases in the long run

I don’t think they can unless they have dual citizenship.  As I mentioned earlier it’s to prevent a government/regime from making someone stateless.  

[moof]

23 minutes ago, belarus said:

Joe Rogan does my head in generally, but that doesn’t mean that he isn’t sometimes able to offer a balanced and practical opinion. You’re going all partisan again - you don’t like him so everything he says is bollocks.

 

If my post drives a reaction from you along the “takes the biscuit” lines, then I’m not surprised you are unable to deal with posts and conversations where people offer actual and real opinions. 

Yes. I suppose it’s the idea that there’s no material difference between reasoned, well thought out opinions and the inane ramblings of bigots, and that the most important thing is “balance”; that makes me want to stick pins in my eyes. 

 

I’m perfectly able to deal with opinions, but I don’t have to respect them or treat them with reverence just because they’re opinions. 

[Lee909]

Just now, Rico1304 said:

I don’t think they can unless they have dual citizenship.  As I mentioned earlier it’s to prevent a government/regime from making someone stateless.  

 

Fair enough then. 

 

It's a simply case then in theory. Bring her back investigate her story and the facts and treat her like you would for anyone breaking any laws, her age is a factor and go from there. 

[SasaS]

3 minutes ago, TK421 said:

In all probability there will be insufficient evidence to prosecute her with anything serious enough to put her away for long, if you listen to the experts.  Very difficult to obtain sufficient evidence for stuff happening in Syria.  

 

I thank they know a lot about westerners. And ISIS wasn't exactly a secret organization in Syria and Iraq. With all that surveillance and so many people now looking for rehabilitation and talking, they could probably get a reasonably clear picture of her level of involvement.

 

You can definitely rule out suicide bombing, for example.

[Lee909]

1 hour ago, Anubis The Jackal said:

 

Or, alternatively ask her where she stands on beans on a full English. If she says yes, leave her where she is.

 

 

To be fair to her if she doesn't like beans her full English would be egg on toast. Not sure she would go for a plate of sausages, bacon and black pudding

[Numero Veinticinco]

11 minutes ago, TK421 said:

You can't deter an ideology.  The criminal justice system is not the answer, in my opinion. 

Oh, I agree. I’ve not got a problem with rehabilitation over prison. I’m just saying that ‘9/10 just some mandated rehab’ isn’t going to deter people from going. Certainly not as much as ‘once you leave you can never come back’ would. 

 

I wonder Ders about the efficacy of the rehabilitation, too. 800 former ISIS fighters and supporters coming back and living here isn’t ideal. 

[Pureblood]

2 minutes ago, Hank Moody said:

Oh, I agree. I’ve not got a problem with rehabilitation over prison. I’m just saying that ‘9/10 just some mandated rehab’ isn’t going to deter people from going. Certainly not as much as ‘once you leave you can never come back’ would. 

 

I wonder Ders about the efficacy of the rehabilitation, too. 800 former ISIS fighters and supporters coming back and living here isn’t ideal. 

The cat is already out of the bag though, eh?  We've had nearly 20 years of the phoney war on terror.  Has any of the counter terrorism legislation in the UK, USA, Europe and so on had the desired impact?  Not for me.

[SasaS]

12 minutes ago, moof said:

Yes. I suppose it’s the idea that there’s no material difference between reasoned, well thought out opinions and the inane ramblings of bigots, and that the most important thing is “balance”; that makes me want to stick pins in my eyes. 

 

I’m perfectly able to deal with opinions, but I don’t have to respect them or treat them with reverence just because they’re opinions. 

[Lee909]

Wasn't everything just easier during the cold War. All seemed a bit more gentlemanly. Our spies (Splendid fellows, brave heroes, risking life and limb for Blighty!) vs their spies (Filthy Soviet weasels fighting their dirty underhand war!). No drone strikes, just ricin laced umbrellas. 

[Lee909]

2 minutes ago, TK421 said:

The cat is already out of the bag though, eh?  We've had nearly 20 years of the phoney war on terror.  Has any of the counter terrorism legislation in the UK, USA, Europe and so on had the desired impact?  Not for me.

 

Not sure what's been more useless the war on terror or the war on drugs. Both have just escalated shit beyond what they where before

[Mook]

15 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

I thank they know a lot about westerners. And ISIS wasn't exactly a secret organization in Syria and Iraq. With all that surveillance and so many people now looking for rehabilitation and talking, they could probably get a reasonably clear picture of her level of involvement.

 

You can definitely rule out suicide bombing, for example.

Hercule fucking Poirot over here.

[Bjornebye]

"Bring the buggers back" is the funniest post of the year so far 

[Dr Nowt]

2 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

She liked it in the caliphate.

 

[stringvest]

1 minute ago, Dr Nowt said:

 

knob covered in Shi'ite