Sadio Mane

[m0e]

2 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't dispute keeping salaries down is an aim, but I also think careful squad management is too. I just don't think there was an expectation we'd still have all 3 here now. 

 

I would also agree we'd probably prefer to let someone like Salah run down his contract than put him on a massive salary. However where we absolutely disagree is to think they don't give a shit about fees. They don't give a shit when they're worth little going out and it would cost more to replace. But I feel absolutely certain we'd have preferred to take a coutinho style fee for Salah in 2021 then let him go for free in 2023. There just weren't offers for him, so we let it role. If there had been offers, he'd have been gone, like Torres, Suarez & coutinho before him. 

 

 

See, that's my issue. Your evidence is based on pre-Klopp signings.

[Barrington Womble]

13 minutes ago, m0e said:

See, that's my issue. Your evidence is based on pre-Klopp signings.

I don't really see what that's got to do with it. He doesn't set the economic model. 

[m0e]

52 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't really see what that's got to do with it. He doesn't set the economic model. 

There's not a single player he's bought that's been sold against his will. He's also made the statement that this will never happen while he's in charge.

 

“No player would leave if I would not allow it,” Klopp said. “If he leaves, then I said yes. That’s how it is.”

 

Source:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-fc-transfer-news-ragnar-klavan-jurgen-klopp-a8496211.html

 

The only thing he has ever talked about is not getting in the way of anyone who wants to leave.

 

There is no history of FSG selling against the manager's will, even with the 3 you mentioned, of which only 1 was under Klopp.

 

In fact, he stated in both the last summer windows that keeping all the players he has is a better solution than signing anyone.

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2020/jun/27/tom-werner-hopeful-sustained-success-liverpool-premier-league-title-win&ved=2ahUKEwjbzpayuLr4AhVmiP0HHZsCBOgQFnoECAgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2zB2bVjIOBMraISrbUuI92

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jurgen-klopp-liverpool-mohamed-salah-21765976.amp&ved=2ahUKEwjZnejNuLr4AhWA8rsIHSgsBPwQFnoECBkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1J8xM-pOf1OL_ymBtsua6w

 

If you're saying it would have been the player demanding a move, then that's another factor on top of Covid.

 

Meaning the buying club would have had to make a bid acceptable to FSG (PSG and Barcelona spent more than it would have cost to buy any of our front 3 during the pandemic) alongside Klopp wanting them sold and/or the player wanting to leave.

 

That's a whole load of assumptions that we'd have had to factor into it back in 2018 when giving them new contracts.

 

I know we're good at this transfer lark, but we're not Nostradamus.

 

Everything you laid out is based on weak and circumstancial evidence, if we can even call it that.

[Barrington Womble]

19 minutes ago, m0e said:

There's not a single player he's bought that's been sold against his will. He's also made the statement that this will never happen while he's in charge.

 

“No player would leave if I would not allow it,” Klopp said. “If he leaves, then I said yes. That’s how it is.”

 

Source:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-fc-transfer-news-ragnar-klavan-jurgen-klopp-a8496211.html

 

The only thing he has ever talked about is not getting in the way of anyone who wants to leave.

 

There is no history of FSG selling against the manager's will, even with the 3 you mentioned, of which only 1 was under Klopp.

 

In fact, he stated in both the last summer windows that keeping all the players he has is a better solution than signing anyone.

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2020/jun/27/tom-werner-hopeful-sustained-success-liverpool-premier-league-title-win&ved=2ahUKEwjbzpayuLr4AhVmiP0HHZsCBOgQFnoECAgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2zB2bVjIOBMraISrbUuI92

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jurgen-klopp-liverpool-mohamed-salah-21765976.amp&ved=2ahUKEwjZnejNuLr4AhWA8rsIHSgsBPwQFnoECBkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1J8xM-pOf1OL_ymBtsua6w

 

If you're saying it would have been the player demanding a move, then that's another factor on top of Covid.

 

Meaning the buying club would have had to make a bid acceptable to FSG (PSG and Barcelona spent more than it would have cost to buy any of our front 3 during the pandemic) alongside Klopp wanting them sold and/or the player wanting to leave.

 

That's a whole load of assumptions that we'd have had to factor into it back in 2018 when giving them new contracts.

 

I know we're good at this transfer lark, but we're not Nostradamus.

 

Everything you laid out is based on weak and circumstancial evidence, if we can even call it that.

Where did I say FSG were going to sell against the managers will? I haven't said that at all. You've assumed that because I think FSG are cunts. I think we planned to sell on the basis one of them (probably Salah) would have had their heads turned by one of the Spanish clubs. Neither of them were at the table for Salah because of covid, so we'll never know. But I'm sure fsg and klopp would have happily taken good money had Salah or mane wanted out. In fact that's exactly what's happening with mane now, except because he's only got 12 months left, it's not very good money. 

[m0e]

33 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Where did I say FSG were going to sell against the managers will? I haven't said that at all. You've assumed that because I think FSG are cunts. I think we planned to sell on the basis one of them (probably Salah) would have had their heads turned by one of the Spanish clubs. Neither of them were at the table for Salah because of covid, so we'll never know. But I'm sure fsg and klopp would have happily taken good money had Salah or mane wanted out. In fact that's exactly what's happening with mane now, except because he's only got 12 months left, it's not very good money. 

Fantastic insight there, Barry.

[Barrington Womble]

49 minutes ago, m0e said:

Fantastic insight there, Barry.

Why would they not plan for that and be happy to spend the money? 

[m0e]

8 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Why would they not plan for that and be happy to spend the money? 

Because you can't plan for that. There are far too many factors involved.

 

And why would you sell if you're challenging for all trophies, if both player and manager are happy, and all the while maintaining your economic model?

[Carra_is_legend]

I don't get the "you cannot plan for that bit". Yes there are factors involved and agree Covid played a major role in planning but if there were strong indications that Salah was not going to sign a contract and if the choice was between taking £150m for him or let him go on a free in 2 years, there was only one choice FSG would have taken and they cannot be blamed.

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

13 minutes ago, m0e said:

Because you can't plan for that. There are far too many factors involved.

 

And why would you sell if you're challenging for all trophies, if both player and manager are happy, and all the while maintaining your economic model?

So you are suggesting we have no continuity planning? Of course you'd plan for someone to leave and history should tell us when one of Spain's big 2 come calling (which they do with successful footballers), players don't normally turn them down. Mbappe doing that was a massive surprise, but when you see the numbers involved it really isn't. Pre-pandemic those two sides pretty much got whoever they wanted.

[smilezzz]

I'm on on Twiaids or FB, so I just wanted to pop in to say Sadio was fucking Ace for us, and I'm gonna miss the fucker.

 

Fantastic player. Fucking awesome on his day, and even when playing shit never stopped trying. Playing through the centre these past couple of months also showed his willingness to play anywhere across the front for us, and his amazing talent. He was also by all accounts a fantastic person, doing fuck loads for charity and underprivileged communities. Wish he wasn't leaving, but have to understand that age will eventually catch up to him, and nows as good a time as any due to a combination of his wish to leave and contract situation. 

[No2]

Some people still think we're playing money ball. There was never anything other than assumptions that we would look to sell to Sadio or Mo. The best thing about FSG is they have always learned quickly, they understood that a good manager with good players is the best way to make money. Selling a great player at his peak so you can replace him with a guy that has a 20% or 30% of failure doesn't make sense.

[m0e]

7 hours ago, Carra_is_legend said:

I don't get the "you cannot plan for that bit". Yes there are factors involved and agree Covid played a major role in planning but if there were strong indications that Salah was not going to sign a contract and if the choice was between taking £150m for him or let him go on a free in 2 years, there was only one choice FSG would have taken and they cannot be blamed.

The entire basis of your theory is that FSG would have done whatever they wanted irrespective of the wishes of Klopp and the player involved, and for those reasons, I'm not buying it.

[m0e]

7 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

So you are suggesting we have no continuity planning?

No, quite the opposite. I suggested that their contracts ARE the planning. I have plenty of proof. You have Coutinho, a player Klopp would have never bought in a million years, let alone for 9 figures.

 

Let me ask you this. How do you think the Mane sale came about? What do you believe to be the circumstances exactly?

[gkmacca]

 

 

 

[Mil-ing Around]

On 19/06/2022 at 07:21, 3 Stacks said:

Klopp doesn't really help himself in that regard. 

 

If he'd let Milner go and didn't want Jones and Elliott to be part of the first team squad, there'd be plenty of room to buy a midfield player. And then he also wants Keita to be extended. He could create a need in midfield by doing simple stuff, but he doesn't. 

He said from day one that's not how he works though. He's big on training players to improve them and develop them.

 

Lots will say, well you didn't improve Kieta, Ox, Karius etc. At some point you should cut your losses and try to upgrade.

 

But I don't think we build the squad, dressing room and team spirit without Klopps mindset and mentality. He gives everyone a chance, sometimes he gives lots of chances. It puts the players at ease and takes the pressure off them. Allowing them to improve and get better. Sometimes if you constantly axe players it sends out the wrong message to the entire squad and playing staff, not just the player you're getting rid of. 

 

 

 

[aws]

I reckon Jurgen enjoys having a couple of rough diamonds to polish in the squad. He'd be bored at City. 

[3 Stacks]

21 minutes ago, Mil-ing Around said:

He said from day one that's not how he works though. He's big on training players to improve them and develop them.

 

Lots will say, well you didn't improve Kieta, Ox, Karius etc. At some point you should cut your losses and try to upgrade.

 

But I don't think we build the squad, dressing room and team spirit without Klopps mindset and mentality. He gives everyone a chance, sometimes he gives lots of chances. It puts the players at ease and takes the pressure off them. Allowing them to improve and get better. Sometimes if you constantly axe players it sends out the wrong message to the entire squad and playing staff, not just the player you're getting rid of. 

 

 

 

I agree with the way Klopp generally does things, I'm not sure how a Liverpool fan couldn't at this point. That's why the shouts about the midfield in the last 2 summers have been amusing because it's quite obvious that Klopp is in large part driving it, but people don't really want to hear it/will blame it on the easy target. 

 

Some of it might be that the owners aren't keen on not recouping value on sales, which is why some players stay rather than get sold to create room in the squad, but in general, Klopp is the decision maker here. 

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, m0e said:

No, quite the opposite. I suggested that their contracts ARE the planning. I have plenty of proof. You have Coutinho, a player Klopp would have never bought in a million years, let alone for 9 figures.

 

Let me ask you this. How do you think the Mane sale came about? What do you believe to be the circumstances exactly?

I reckon he wanted to get off and earn more money. Which he is. And I'm sure had Barcelona offered Salah 400k a year ago, he'd be there now. 

[Fugitive]

What a fella, Klopps first proper buy and gave us everything. He was the start of the Klopp way of playing and I’ll always love the man. He gave his all every time and was part of something special.

 

Good luck Sadio, you fucking legend.

[LFC 6 Times]

Distraught. What a fucking player. Thanks for the good times Sadio, there’s plenty to choose from.

[m0e]

4 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I reckon he wanted to get off and earn more money. Which he is. And I'm sure had Barcelona offered Salah 400k a year ago, he'd be there now. 

Yes. A player asks to leave and we got a much better player (in theory) to replace him.

 

And for double the money.

 

That's literally what every successful manager in the history of club football did when sustaining success.

 

But to make your transfer strategy about top players asking to leave before they've peaked is a strategy for losers like Southampton and Salzburg.

 

Not a team wanting to win everything.

 

Thankfully Klopp is a winner, and if he ever loses a player to a European rival, when he doesn't want to, you can come and speak to me then.

 

Because that simply hasn't happened.

[luxury_scruff]

The next two days we are going to see him in somebody else's football shirt, and he will be smiling.

[Barrington Womble]

8 hours ago, m0e said:

Yes. A player asks to leave and we got a much better player (in theory) to replace him.

 

And for double the money.

 

That's literally what every successful manager in the history of club football did when sustaining success.

 

But to make your transfer strategy about top players asking to leave before they've peaked is a strategy for losers like Southampton and Salzburg.

 

Not a team wanting to win everything.

 

Thankfully Klopp is a winner, and if he ever loses a player to a European rival, when he doesn't want to, you can come and speak to me then.

 

Because that simply hasn't happened.

Klopp has spent his whole career losing his best players to rivals. He shrugs his shoulders and gets on with it and sees it as part of the game. Of course we plan for players leaving, any responsible business does and I find it surprising you think we don't. Before klopp, we signed Suarez to a new deal, didn't plan for him going, watched him bite a player in the WC and we had absolutely no plan whatsoever to cope with that loss. I don't believe for a second fsg would let that happen again and as I said, it's one of klopp's key core skills. 

[Bruce Spanner]

38 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Klopp has spent his whole career losing his best players to rivals. He shrugs his shoulders and gets on with it and sees it as part of the game. Of course we plan for players leaving, any responsible business does and I find it surprising you think we don't. Before klopp, we signed Suarez to a new deal, didn't plan for him going, watched him bite a player in the WC and we had absolutely no plan whatsoever to cope with that loss. I don't believe for a second fsg would let that happen again and as I said, it's one of klopp's key core skills. 

I refute your claim, FSG didn’t just have a plan, they had THE plan!

 

 

[TD_LFC]

21 hours ago, No2 said:

Some people still think we're playing money ball. 

I'm not entirely sure most people who commented on money ball and Liverpool's supposed use of it understood what money ball was.