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Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?  

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  1. 1. Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?



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2 hours ago, moof said:

He didn’t endorse anything, so I have to presume the rest of your post is a bit iffy as well

Haha, he admitted that he did endorse it and then apologised for it

So, I have to presume that your presumptions are a bit iffy... 

Jeremy apologised for it and that's fine but the fact that he never twigged in the first place worries me

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On 26/11/2019 at 16:30, mattyq said:

Haha, he admitted that he did endorse it and then apologised for it

So, I have to presume that your presumptions are a bit iffy... 

Jeremy apologised for it and that's fine but the fact that he never twigged in the first place worries me

He never endorsed it.

 

He made one hastily-written (and badly spelled) Facebook comment about artists who have had their work censored, but didn't take the time to look at the mural first.  If he had, he clearly wouldn't have "endorsed" it.

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You tell the fuckers, Jennie!

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/opinion-jennie-formby-chief-rabbi-can-criticise-but-heres-why-hes-wrong/

 

On 12 December, everyone should cast their vote according to their conscience and without fear. The key Jewish values of social justice, peace and community are exactly the values that Labour stand for. That there are Jewish people in Britain who feel they may have something to fear from a Labour government is deeply concerning to us.

 

Rabbi Mirvis has every right to highlight the anxiety that Jewish people feel. Antisemitism is on the rise around the world. Within the Labour Party, it has been deeply troubling that a small number of members have perpetuated conspiratorial thinking and recycled ancient antisemitic tropes, sometimes under the guise of criticising Israel.

 

Sadly, a minority in our party have adopted a bunker mentality in response, denying the existence of antisemitism in our movement and dismissing the very real experiences of Jewish people. That has never been my position, nor that of Jeremy Corbyn.

 

Where Rabbi Mirvis and I respectfully part ways is over his claim that our efforts to tackle anti-Jewish racism are “a mendacious fiction”. I want to set out the decisive actions we have taken to tackle antisemitism in the Labour Party.

 

Shami Chakrabarti and Baroness Royall’s 2016 inquiries made clear that nobody in our party should use Zionist as a term of abuse or compare Israel to Nazi Germany.

 

Our 2017 Conference passed a rule change, drafted with help from the Jewish Labour Movement, which made the Labour Party the first political party in Britain to have a rule explicitly prohibiting antisemitism.

 

When I took over in 2018, it was clear that the party’s slow and cumbersome disciplinary processes were not fit for purpose. So we set up an Antisemitism Working Group from our National Executive Committee which met experts and stakeholders and recommended a number of reforms.

 

In line with the Macpherson Principle, we made sure every single complaint of antisemitism is recorded. We introduced smaller, specialised NEC antisemitism panels to hear cases monthly (rather than quarterly), advised by an independent barrister with expertise in equality law, ensuring cases are reviewed more swiftly and with sound legal advice. We changed our rules to ensure that all antisemitism complaints are investigated nationally, as complaints of racism should not be subject to the whims of local parties.

 

A major cause of delays was that the power to expel lay solely with the National Constitutional Committee (NCC), a quasi-judicial disciplinary body created in the 1980s, hearing cases via lengthy trials, often involving lawyers. So, in 2018, we doubled the size of the NCC and introduced new guidelines to enable them to hear antisemitism cases on paper, but these reforms still didn’t allow for indisputable cases of antisemitism to be dealt with immediately.

 

So this year, Conference approved a major rule-change – initiated by Jeremy Corbyn – to give NEC panels the power to expel members. Now, when someone engages in antisemitism, they can be expelled within weeks – rather than months – of us receiving the complaint. Just this month a number of members have been expelled using these new powers.

 

We have doubled the number of staff working on antisemitism disciplinary cases and a designated member of staff works on improving our antisemitism processes. All staff have undertaken antisemitism education delivered by the Pears Institute for the Study of Antisemitism, alongside NEC and NCC members.

 

Staff have developed methods to identify the individuals behind the ‘faceless social media trolls’ that Rabbi Mirvis mentioned. We have created automated tools to search social media histories and detect patterns of behaviour and we have strengthened our membership checking system with a dedicated member of staff vetting membership applications.

 

And we have improved our recording of information, so that we now have data on the length of time cases take to be dealt with. Analysis of this shows a more than four-fold increase in the rate at which we are now dealing with antisemitism cases.

 

In line with suggestions from Jewish communal organisations to make our processes more transparent, I have twice published a detailed breakdown of data on antisemitism disciplinary cases and we will be publishing these on a regular basis going forward. As previous publications of our figures have made clear, complaints relate to a small minority of party members, about 0.1%.

 

While any suggestion that there are thousands of unresolved cases is categorically untrue, in recognition that some older complaints, before new procedures were brought in, were not dealt with swiftly or robustly enough, staff have been conducting audits of historical antisemitism complaints.

 

While these improvements give me confidence that complaints of antisemitism are thoroughly investigated, I agree with the Rabbi Mirvis that this is not just a matter of procedures or discipline, but of culture and education too.

 

That is why we have launched proactive education which we are continuing to roll out. This aims to give members the tools to identify antisemitic tropes and conspiracies, and challenge them. Our website “No Place for Antisemitism” includes the IHRA definition of antisemitism as well as materials discussing antisemitism, its history and its modern manifestations in discussions on Zionism and Israel.

 

To tackle the unhealthy culture around some of these discussions, Jeremy has made clear in video messages, emails to members, articles and speeches that there is no place for antisemitism and that anyone who denies its existence is wrong and is contributing to the problem. And I have communicated to local parties that meetings should not discuss disciplinary procedures or give platforms to members who have been suspended for antisemitism. Working with the Chief Whip and Leader, we’ve made clear MPs must abide by the same principle.

 

But we know we will always be playing catch-up, as long as social media platforms allow individuals to spread antisemitism within Labour-supporting networks. Online spaces which are used as fertile breeding ground for antisemitic conspiracy theories should never be allowed to legitimise themselves by hijacking our party’s name. Tech giants have turned a blind eye to this problem for a decade. In 2010 Jewish News reported on this very problem and Jeremy Corbyn signed a motion to Parliament congratulating them on this important investigation.

 

I personally wrote to the administrators of a number of Facebook groups last year to advise them on how to better moderate content within their groups. And our staff have provided information to Facebook to enable them to close down groups which use Labour’s name to disguise their sharing of racist content. We continue to be in contact with them on this issue.

 

The list of actions I’ve outlined above is by no means exhaustive, but it demonstrates the serious and extensive work the Labour Party has undertaken to deal with this issue. We know we have further to go to root out antisemitism, but I believe we are firmly on the path to achieving that.

 

The Labour Party seeks to build a better world, free from hatred and intolerance. To do that we must build a movement in which Jewish people feel not only safe and secure, but also celebrated, respected and welcome.

 

This is an objective to which I am fully committed and which I will never cease to pursue.

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2 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Amazed that is not on the top of the BBC News website.

 

Noticed the phrase ' casual A/S ' mentioned on a previous page. This appears to have morphed into ' Not A/S at all but we know what you are thinking '

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Intriguing article. Also before the smearing starts, I’d just like to point out that the author, Gideon Levy is an Israeli and a Jew.

https://www.haaretz.com/amp/opinion/.premium-the-contract-on-corbyn-1.8192769?__twitter_impression=true

Quote

Opinion The Contract on Corbyn 

Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. His real sin is to fight against injustice in the world, including the version Israel perpetrates

Gideon Levy

13:27

The Jewish establishment in Britain and the Israeli propaganda machine have taken out a contract on the leader of the British Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn. The contract was taken out a long time ago, and it was clear that the closer Corbyn came to being elected prime minister, the harsher the conflict would get.

On Tuesday it reached its climax in an article by the chief rabbi of Britain, Ephraim Mirvis, in an article in The Times. Mirvis has decided that the anxiety of British Jews over Corbyn is justified and he is not fit to be prime minister. He called on Jews not to vote for Labour in the election on December 12.

Haaretz Weekly Ep. 50 Haaretz

>> Why Britain's chief rabbi had no choice but to speak out against Corbyn ■ The real reason 'anti-racist' Corbyn can't deal with anti-Semitism

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Born in South Africa and a graduate of Har Etzion Yeshiva in the settlement of Alon Shvut, Mirvis is the voice of British Jewry. In Capetown, Johannesburg and Har Etzion, he should have learned what apartheid was and why one should fight it. His parents did so, but one doubts that he learned the moral lesson from the regions of disenfranchisement in which he lived in South Africa and the West Bank.

As opposed to the horrid Corbyn, Mirvis sees nothing wrong with the continued occupation; he does not identify with the struggle for Palestinian freedom, and he doesn’t sense the similarity between the South Africa of his childhood, Har Etzion of his youth and Israel of 2019. That is the real reason that he rejects Corbyn. The Jews of Britain also want a prime minister who supports Israel – that is, supports the occupation. A prime minister who is critical of Israel is to them an exemplar of the new anti-Semitism.

Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. He never was. His real sin is his staunch position against injustice in the world, including the version Israel perpetrates. Today this is anti-Semitism. The Hungarian Viktor Orban, the Austrian Freedom Party and the extreme right in Europe are not the danger to Jews. Corbyn is the enemy. The new and efficient strategy of Israel and the Zionist establishment brands every seeker of justice as an anti-Semite, and any criticism of Israel as hatred of Jews. Corbyn is a victim of this strategy, which threatens to paralyze and silence Europe with regard to Israel.

British Jewry might not be faking its anxiety, but it is certainly magnifying the danger. There is anti-Semitism, though less that what is presented, certainly on the left. About half of British Jews are considering fleeing if Corbyn is elected. Let them flee. The survey that showed this could actually encourage anti-Semitism: Are the Jews of Britain conditionally British? To whom is their loyalty?

The future of all British Jews is much more secure than the future of any Palestinian living under the occupation, and even more secure than that of any Arab living in Israel. Jews are persecuted and are victims of discrimination and racism less so than the Palestinians in the Israel they hold dear. Moreover, Islamophobia in Europe is more common than anti-Semitism, but people talk about it less.

British Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis gives a speech as he attends a Holocaust Memorial Day Ceremony at Central Hall Westminster, Tuesday Jan. 27, 2015, in London. AP

Related Articles

Why Britain's Chief Rabbi Had No Choice but to Speak Out Against Corbyn 

Israeli President Praises UK Rabbi in Veiled Swipe at Corbyn 

Mirvis presents no evidence of Corbyn’s anti-Semitism. It sufficed for him to note the fact that Corbyn described as “friends” those who “endorse the murder of Jews” – a reference to Corbyn’s comments on Hezbollah and Hamas. Corbyn is indeed a very harsh critic of the occupation, supports the boycott and compares the closure of Gaza with the siege of Stalingrad and Leningrad. These are anti-Israeli positions, but not necessarily anti-Semitic. The Jews of Britain are blurring this difference as are many Jews throughout the world, intentionally. One can (and should) be a harsh critic of Israel without being anti-Semitic.

If the Jews of Britain and their chief rabbi were more honest and courageous, they would ask themselves: Isn’t Israel’s brutal occupation policy the strongest motive for anti-Semitism today? There is anti-Semitism, it must be fought, but it must also be recognized that Israel supplies it an abundance of excuses and motives.

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The Jews and Israel’s true friends should hope that Corbyn is elected. He is a statesman who can change international discourse about the occupation and the struggle against it. He is a ray of hope for a different world and a different Israel – and what more could we want.

 

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Just now, Rico1304 said:

Evidence for the last para? He’s been a back bench MP for 30 odd years. 

Evidence for something that hasn’t happened yet? Dunce

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Description

statesman or stateswoman is usually a politician, diplomat or other notable public figure who has had a long and respected career at the national or international level.

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Description

 

Cunt - Rico

 

 

Quote

 

Statesman

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
 
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40px-Wiktionary-logo-en-v2.svg.png Look up statesman, statesmanship, statesperson, or stateswoman in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

A statesman or stateswoman is usually a politician, diplomat or other notable public figure who has had a long and respected career at the national or international level.

Statesman or Statesmen may also refer to:

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Goodness me! 

 

 

I feel sorry for the woman, as I do with the community as a whole. Anti-semitism has been exploited and weaponised by the right, so much so that people are genuinely scared for their lives.

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Don't hold your breath. He'll be back to disingenuous Corbyn bashing tomorrow, despite knowing exactly what the consequences are. Him and Dunty just can't help themselves.

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17 hours ago, Rico1304 said:
 
 

Description

statesman or stateswoman is usually a politician, diplomat or other notable public figure who has had a long and respected career at the national or international level.

The kind of person who might, for example, be well respected by senior politicians in the EU, the US  and Latin America? The kind of person who might win international peace prizes? The kind of person who might be invited to speak at conferences around the world?

 

That kind of person?

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17 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The kind of person who might, for example, be well respected by senior politicians in the EU, the US  and Latin America? The kind of person who might win international peace prizes? The kind of person who might be invited to speak at conferences around the world?

 

That kind of person?

Oh come on, he’s got a few dodgy mates and if you are mentioning that Gandhi award then I may piss myself. 
 

as Jim might say ‘statesman my arse’

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17 hours ago, Rico1304 said:
 
 

Description

statesman or stateswoman is usually a politician, diplomat or other notable public figure who has had a long and respected career at the national or international level.

I mean, how does that not describe the Corbs? He’s a politician that has had a long and respected (by some) career at the national level. Pretty much to a tee.

 

However, can you be a statesman with a beard? 

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3 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

I mean, how does that not describe the Corbs? He’s a politician that has had a long and respected (by some) career at the national level. Pretty much to a tee.

 

However, can you be a statesman with a beard? 

Can you be a statesman without one?!

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I’d rather not get bogged down on something as mind-numbing dull if that’s ok lads. I don’t really care that much if some randos think Corbyn is not a stateman. I’m sure he wouldn’t either. We’re better than that. Let’s focus on the meatier stuff.

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38 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

I mean, how does that not describe the Corbs? He’s a politician that has had a long and respected (by some) career at the national level. Pretty much to a tee.

 

However, can you be a statesman with a beard? 

I get you like him, that’s fine.  But until now he’s never had a senior position, sponsored any significant legislation, represented a labour government internationally.  Sure, he’s had pet projects and visited them but he’s a back bencher.  

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