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Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?


Sugar Ape
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Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?  

218 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?



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2 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Rico lives in a Tory/Lib Dem marginal, as far as I recall. So voting Lib Dem would be an eminently sensible move for him.

So as a reaminer I assume you will be voting Labour seeing as it is eminently sensible for you to do? 

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20 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I didn't say there was anything undemocratic about how he got his position.  I would argue that it's undemocratic that it's a job for life unless something like 0.0025% of the party decide that an election is needed.

 

The idea that Momentum is a lefty ERG (or a new Militant) is just flat wrong.  Wanting to democratise the party is not the same as insisting that people fall in line with your policy positions; it's sort of the opposite of that.

 

It's equally wrong - not to mention defeatist - to pretend that a party in opposition can do nothing. 

To remove a position the party has had for over a hundred years because you don't like the person who currently has it, is pretty undemocratic behaviour in my opinion. Fortunately the party is stronger than momentum, but this was a massive fuck up, because despite how shit Watson is, this is time for the party to try to at least appear to look unified. Yes, Watson stepped out of line last week with his latest on brexit (not that I particularly disagree with his point of view, but that's a different discussion), but it's not a great deal different to what other front benchers have done, McDonnell included, should we remove the position of shadow chancellor too? A policy of fence sitting creates this environment imo, because people by nature will want to get off the fence, especially as we're about to face an election

 

If momentum truly feel there is no room for a deputy leader, do it in a more open fashion, start the debate, don't personalise it and don't try to sneak it past everyone while nobody is looking. 

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5 hours ago, Barry Wom said:

To remove a position the party has had for over a hundred years because you don't like the person who currently has it, is pretty undemocratic behaviour in my opinion. Fortunately the party is stronger than momentum, but this was a massive fuck up, because despite how shit Watson is, this is time for the party to try to at least appear to look unified. Yes, Watson stepped out of line last week with his latest on brexit (not that I particularly disagree with his point of view, but that's a different discussion), but it's not a great deal different to what other front benchers have done, McDonnell included, should we remove the position of shadow chancellor too? A policy of fence sitting creates this environment imo, because people by nature will want to get off the fence, especially as we're about to face an election

 

If momentum truly feel there is no room for a deputy leader, do it in a more open fashion, start the debate, don't personalise it and don't try to sneak it past everyone while nobody is looking. 

 

Its clear that they are planning for life after Corbyn and are worried that Watson will take them back in to the centre.

 

I agree it was a pretty stupid idea though.

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3 hours ago, magicrat said:

At a time Labour should be leading the charge to stop Johnson they are stabbing each other in the back. Beyond depressing .

Yep. The Tories/Johnson have spent the last few weeks continually shooting themselves in both feet.

 

Not to be outdone, Labour rock up and decide to go for a public amputation of all four limbs.

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5 hours ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

Its clear that they are planning for life after Corbyn and are worried that Watson will take them back in to the centre.

 

I agree it was a pretty stupid idea though.

I heard something earlier that that was the worry. But I genuinely done get that. It's not the royal family where number 2 takes over when number 1 is dead. There would be an election and if Watson won that, well that's what the members want. But there's no fucking way the members are voting for Watson. 

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Isn’t the idea that it would be better for labour coming into a general election season to not have a deputy leader who is undermining the party every step of the way? You know, “unity” and all that. You can’t pretend that keeping him in that role is good for labour.

 

And, besides all that, Corbyn has actually stepped in himself and reached a compromise between all sides. He’s always doing that, only to be stabbed in the back repeatedly by the very people he’s compromising with. And then he gets the blame for it. It’s bizarro world. 

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56 minutes ago, moof said:

Isn’t the idea that it would be better for labour coming into a general election season to not have a deputy leader who is undermining the party every step of the way? You know, “unity” and all that. You can’t pretend that keeping him in that role is good for labour.

 

And, besides all that, Corbyn has actually stepped in himself and reached a compromise between all sides. He’s always doing that, only to be stabbed in the back repeatedly by the very people he’s compromising with. And then he gets the blame for it. It’s bizarro world. 

He’s too good a bloke to succeed in UK politics IMO, a bit of a shame for you guys, but that’s the way it goes sometimes.

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12 hours ago, Barry Wom said:

To remove a position the party has had for over a hundred years because you don't like the person who currently has it, is pretty undemocratic behaviour in my opinion. Fortunately the party is stronger than momentum, but this was a massive fuck up, because despite how shit Watson is, this is time for the party to try to at least appear to look unified. Yes, Watson stepped out of line last week with his latest on brexit (not that I particularly disagree with his point of view, but that's a different discussion), but it's not a great deal different to what other front benchers have done, McDonnell included, should we remove the position of shadow chancellor too? A policy of fence sitting creates this environment imo, because people by nature will want to get off the fence, especially as we're about to face an election

 

If momentum truly feel there is no room for a deputy leader, do it in a more open fashion, start the debate, don't personalise it and don't try to sneak it past everyone while nobody is looking. 

No arguments with the last sentence.

 

Although I did heave a weary sigh at the tired old "fence-sitting" canard.

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18 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

No arguments with the last sentence.

 

Although I did heave a weary sigh at the tired old "fence-sitting" canard.

The fact there's still a debate about labours position, that even people close to Corbyn seem to be beating a different drum to him, clearly there's fence sitting. Labour as a party do not have a clear position on what they would fight a GE election campaign on. I tire of people who believe this position is anything bit fence sitting. 

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3 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

The fact there's still a debate about labours position, that even people close to Corbyn seem to be beating a different drum to him, clearly there's fence sitting. Labour as a party do not have a clear position on what they would fight a GE election campaign on. I tire of people who believe this position is anything bit fence sitting. 

They have a very clear position, they want to talk to the EU to try and get a reasonable deal, and then put that against remain in a second referendum. How could that be any clearer? Its wilful ignorance at this point to pretend that their position isn’t only clear but the most (only) coherent plan.

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2 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

The fact there's still a debate about labours position, that even people close to Corbyn seem to be beating a different drum to him, clearly there's fence sitting. Labour as a party do not have a clear position on what they would fight a GE election campaign on. I tire of people who believe this position is anything bit fence sitting. 

1. Negotiate a deal that protects jobs, etc.

2. Put that deal to the a public vote

 

 

There's nothing unclear about that and pretty much everyone in Labour is behind it.  When the time comes for a public vote, some people are now having the debate - as is entirely appropriate at Conference - about whether Labour should campaign for one side or the other.  Personally, I think the most sensible thing will be to give MPs free rein to campaign as they see fit: it makes no sense to consider going to negotiate a deal with the EU, having first committed to campaign against that deal.

 

This isn't sitting on the fence: it's refusing to be divided by the fence.  The bottom line is that the whole Brexit debacle is a Tory creation and Labour are quite right in refusing to be defined by it.  There are many more important divisions in the country and many important issues that unite people who disagree about Brexit.  Corbyn set this out clearly at the start of the year, in a speech in Wakefield (which starts about 16:40 into this clip).  Basically, stop fixating on the fence.

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Thanks for that.  (Out of rep, soz.)

 

So, Rico wasn't telling the complete, unvarnished truth about the Labour Party?

 

I'm shocked and disappointed.

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17 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Thanks for that.  (Out of rep, soz.)

 

So, Rico wasn't telling the complete, unvarnished truth about the Labour Party?

 

I'm shocked and disappointed.

Or you are lying about what I posted. Which was a question.  So fuck off. 

 

Will you admit it? Doubt it. 

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