Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[aRdja]

3 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

The context of the discussion was removing private property from private ownership. He thinks that's okay, because the government enact laws - so essentially they can do what they want. Now bear in mind that i'm not suggesting Angry wants to abolish private property entirely. I said that he's advocating a progressive swing towards those steps. Would you not say that taking 10% of a possession (that is not yours) is a progressive swing towards abolition of private property rights?

“You’re happy to abolish the concept of property rights”

[Boss]

Just now, viRdjil said:

“You’re happy to abolish the concept of property rights”

and then add the rest of the sentence to it.

[Jairzinho]

26 minutes ago, Boss said:

@AngryofTuebrook

 

Of the 10 basic tenants in the communist manifesto, i'd say you've advocated a progressive manoeuvring towards about 6-7 of them.

 

You want more progressive taxes that target higher earners, and specifically want to target income taxes. You've mentioned that tax rates in the 50's-60's were much higher and you'd like to see it go back to that

 

You want progressive taxation on inheritance - to penalise people that inherit wealth.

 

You want to centralise the means of production by nationalising various industries and put the railways back into public ownership - which is the means of transport tenant in the communist manifesto.

 

You advocate for the removal of private schools - which falls under the tenant of free education for all children. 

 

You're happy to abolish the concept of private ownership if the government puts something into law - which means if the government want ownership of somebody else's private property, they simply enact it into law and that's acceptable. 

 

Presumably you'd be in favour of a centralised, nationalised bank but I can't remember you mentioning it to my knowledge. 

 

You also frequently quote communist phrases like "to each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

 

This is depressingly disingenuous, Boss. There are fucking Lib Dems that support higher tax rates and something like a national bank. 

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 minutes ago, Boss said:

@AngryofTuebrook

 

Of the 10 basic tenants in the communist manifesto, i'd say you've advocated a progressive manoeuvring towards about 6-7 of them.

 

You want more progressive taxes that target higher earners, and specifically want to target income taxes. You've mentioned that tax rates in the 50's-60's were much higher and you'd like to see it go back to that

That sort of taxation is very common in capitalist countries.

 

You want progressive taxation on inheritance - to penalise people that inherit wealth.

Also very common in capitalist countries.

 

You want to centralise the means of production by nationalising various industries and put the railways back into public ownership - which is the means of transport tenant in the communist manifesto.

I  don't want to "centralise the means of production". 

I recognise that the private sector is not good at the efficient and equitable provision of essential services, therefore I want these to be provided by the public sector, as they are in many capitalist countries.

 

You advocate for the removal of private schools - which falls under the tenant of free education for all children. 

Every successful capitalist country provides a degree of free education. 

 

You're happy to abolish the concept of private ownership

No I'm not. 

if the government puts something into law - which means if the government want ownership of somebody else's private property, they simply enact it into law and that's acceptable. 

If the lawmakers make a law to make something legal, then it's legal, by definition. 

Every capitalist government in the world legally takes, in taxes, a proportion of what people might consider to be their own. Until we vote for a Government that promises zero tax and zero spending, we have to assume that people are happy with the principle of that (although they may disagree with the details).

 

Presumably you'd be in favour of a centralised, nationalised bank but I can't remember you mentioning it to my knowledge. 

The Bank of England has existed a lot longer than I have; I just take a national bank (of the kind found in most capitalist countries) for granted.

 

You also frequently quote communist phrases like "to each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

That's a phrase like "Do unto others..." that is so obviously sensible and fair, that it's hard to imagine what objection a moral person could have to it. 

I only recently learned it was one of Marx's.

If I'm a Communist, so is most of the capitalist world. 

[Boss]

8 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

This is depressingly disingenuous, Boss. There are fucking Lib Dems that support higher tax rates and something like a national bank. 

 

I'm not saying there aren't. I'm simply saying that progressive taxation targeting income specifically is one of the major tenants of the communist manifesto - and Angry espouses it. When you add up the tenants you broadly get Angry's views on most issues, whether they be social or fiscal. 

 

Not that I have any problem with anyone who's a communist by the way. I don't. I just think this 10% equity thing is so egregious, that it's actually disgraceful. It's the worst policy proposed since the bedroom tax. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

22 minutes ago, Boss said:

I think so. At the very least, you accused me of misrepresenting him. Either way, you'd need to read the books like "Das Kapital" to come to that assumption. 

It depends what you said.

 

If you'd claimed Marx said "I bloody love Birds Eye Potato Waffles, I do", then I would challenge that, even without reading The Communist Manifesto. 

[Jairzinho]

4 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

I'm not saying there aren't. I'm simply saying that progressive taxation targeting income specifically is one of the major tenants of the communist manifesto - and Angry espouses it. When you add up the tenants you broadly get Angry's views on most issues, whether they be social or fiscal. 

 

Not that I have any problem with anyone who's a communist by the way. I don't. I just think this 10% equity thing is so egregious, that it's actually disgraceful. It's the worst policy proposed since the bedroom tax. 

He isn't even remotely close to being a Communist, and you know that. 

[Boss]

Just now, Jairzinho said:

He isn't even remotely close to being a Communist, and you know that. 

 

He is. He's ideologically a Marxist. There are quite a few posters on here that are ideologically that way inclined too. As I say, I don't have any problem with it. I like Angry, and he always converses with respect, so I like debating with him.

[aRdja]

What the hell is going on here? Are we seriously arguing that a progressive income tax system is Marxist? Because if so, I’m out. 

[Boss]

27 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

What the hell is going on here? Are we seriously arguing that a progressive income tax system is Marxist? Because if so, I’m out. 

 

Yeah. It's the second tenant of the Communist Manifesto. Most people don't realise that income tax in the UK 120 years ago was 5% earnings. In 1816 it was abolished completely. In 1841 it was implemented again for a fixed period of 3 years at 3%. In 1874 Gladstone and Disraeli campaigned to abolish it again. The rate ended up staying and it was less than 1%. It was a deeply unpopular policy, even at 1%.

 

The first world war was when it increased because the country had to fund the war effort. People act like income tax has always been 45%-50%, it hasn't. What Marx proposed in the mid 1800's is the system we have in the UK today, broadly speaking.

[aRdja]

27 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

Yeah. It's the second tenant of the Communist Manifesto. Most people don't realise that income tax in the UK 120 years ago was 5% earnings. In 1816 it was abolished completely. In 1841 it was implemented again for a fixed period of 3 years at 3%. In 1874 Gladstone and Disraeli campaigned to abolish it again. The rate ended up staying and it was less than 1%. It was a deeply unpopular policy, even at 1%.

 

The first world war was when it increased because the country had to fund the war effort. People act like income tax has always been 45%-50%, it hasn't. What Marx proposed in the mid 1800's is the system we have in the UK today, broadly speaking.

Karl Marx also argues against exploiting child labour... would you say Nike are now communists for implementing actions to stop their factories from employing kids?

 

is the US now a communist country for having a progressive income tax system in place?

[Bjornebye]

1 hour ago, Boss said:

 

He is. He's ideologically a Marxist. There are quite a few posters on here that are ideologically that way inclined too. As I say, I don't have any problem with it. I like Angry, and he always converses with respect, so I like debating with him.

He called you a fucking cunt on Twitter. FYI

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, Boss said:

 

He is. He's ideologically a Marxist. There are quite a few posters on here that are ideologically that way inclined too. As I say, I don't have any problem with it. I like Angry, and he always converses with respect, so I like debating with him.

I have to assume you're joking, because you're not an imbecile.

[Boss]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

He called you a fucking cunt on Twitter. FYI

I've been called worse.

[Boss]

18 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Karl Marx also argues against exploiting child labour... would you say Nike are now communists for implementing actions to stop their factories from employing kids?

 

is the US now a communist country for having a progressive income tax system in place?

 

That's a straw man argument. Besides, It's one tenant, of many. If the overwhelming majority are supported then the underpinnings of that persons philosophy can be described as Marxist. By the way, not everyone believes in progressive taxation.

[Section_31]

It's a simple one for me. We should structure our society like Scandinavia and/or post war Britain. 

 

Despite the constant bollocks about Venezuela thrown around, blueprints for successful left wing societies have and do exist. They're quite nice in fact.

[Dr Nowt]

The news Marx had 10 tenants won’t go down well with Hades.

[Bjornebye]

19 minutes ago, Boss said:

I've been called worse.

He didn't really mate.

 

I don't agree with most of your bollocks about politics Boss but I do admire the way you deal with it on here. You don't act like a big fucking tart. 

 

You big tart. 

[Boss]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

He didn't really mate.

 

I don't agree with most of your bollocks about politics Boss but I do admire the way you deal with it on here. You don't act like a big fucking tart. 

 

You big tart. 

 

Thanks mate. I appreciate that. I enjoy your levity and sense of humour.

[Boss]

8 minutes ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

The news Marx had 10 tenants won’t go down well with Hades.

Superb.

 

Mental note: Tenets. 

[aRdja]

1 hour ago, Boss said:

 

That's a straw man argument. Besides, It's one tenant, of many. If the overwhelming majority are supported then the underpinnings of that persons philosophy can be described as Marxist. By the way, not everyone believes in progressive taxation.

Progressive income tax is as marxist as being anti child labour. 

[Rico1304]

6 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Progressive income tax is as marxist as being anti child labour. 

Lazy little fuckers. 

[Section_31]

Jesus fucking Christ.

 

 

[Jairzinho]

Top banter.

[Strontium]

Clucking bell.