Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Denny Crane said:

"Developing the participants notion of their role in society" 

 

Sounds like a shit load of politicians are scared of young people. They certainly didn't appreciate their efforts in highlighting the inaction on environmental matters and generally sneer and are very dismissive as a rule. 

 

 

 

 

Fucking hell. 

 

Where's that from?

[moof]

Just now, AngryofTuebrook said:

Fucking hell. 

 

Where's that from?

The tinge group manifesto, isn’t it?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, A Red said:

I will trust the leader/party that offers the least chance of chaos and high taxation, in other words doesnt rock my boat too much. No problem with increased taxation - big on super rich, small on me.

That'll be Labour, then.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

I'm sure it's not his political instinct to do that, but assuming Labour attempt anything like the spending plans they announced in their 2017 manifesto, I don't see how it would be avoidable. No chance they raise all that money from high earners and businesses alone.

Growth. 

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Growth. 

 

Let's assume that is possible - what if growth doesn't happen? As we've seen over the past decade, it's not that easy, especially when your economy is heavily impacted by what happens in other countries.

[moof]

We’ve had incompetent leaders for the past decade who’ve enacted a regime of austerity. That might’ve had something to do with lack of growth

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Hodgey is in the papers again. Her latest suggestion is that Corbyn should close down Labour CLP's which pass resolutions that she doesn't like or agree with. 

 

She's such a scamp! 

[Denny Crane]

31 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Fucking hell. 

 

Where's that from?

 

It's from some pamphlet Umunna is promoting. 

 

 

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

13 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

 

It's from some pamphlet Umunna is promoting. 

 

 

 

 

 

"I've set out my ideas in the 'What are Progressives for?' pamphlet"

 

[Jairzinho]

Er, the Labour Party. Hence you fucking off, you fucking egg.

[Section_31]

1 hour ago, moof said:

We’ve had incompetent leaders for the past decade who’ve enacted a regime of austerity. That might’ve had something to do with lack of growth

Our biggest period of growth for ten years was just after the credit crunch when Brown went all Keansian on its ass. 

 

But then the country in its eternal wisdom elected a party that previously destroyed its infrastructure which has once again, would you believe it, destroyed its infrastructure.

 

All while swallowing Cameron's cloven hooved horseshit about Labour's profligate and wasteful spending.

[A Red]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I don't know how much you earn (none of my business) but don't underestimate how rich the very rich (individuals and corporations) are and how much could be raised by taxing them fairly.

 

The amount of inheritance tax that the Duke of Westminster dodged when his dad died was more than enough to pay for the unemployment benefit bill for the entire country for a year. 

 

Also, as long as VAT is 20%, don't think you're not already paying too much tax.

Its not about what I earn so much as the assets that the business owns in order to operate, a business that couldnt swallow an increase in council/land/mansion tax of 3k pa or over. An indication that council tax will be overhauled and no details would mean that i couldnt vote for him. 

 

Dont forget,  the amount of inheritance tax that Tony Benn dodged for his kids, whilst not in the Duke of Westminster league, was still a fair wack.

 

As for VAT i do prefer indirect to direct taxation.

[A Red]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The principle is that Conference determines policy, not the leader.

I know it does, I think the Vice President of CND, if he is a man of principle would stand down as PM rather than implement a policy of buying nuclear weapons. 

[SasaS]

9 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Our biggest period of growth for ten years was just after the credit crunch when Brown went all Keansian on its ass. 

 

But then the country in its eternal wisdom elected a party that previously destroyed its infrastructure which has once again, would you believe it, destroyed its infrastructure.

 

All while swallowing Cameron's cloven hooved horseshit about Labour's profligate and wasteful spending.

 

It wasn't, it was between 2013 and 2015.

[Anny Road]

We should at least not have people living on the streets. I don’t think it is about increasing taxes it is sensible borrowing for investment. Every business grows with debt. A nation is no different.

[Denny Crane]

1 hour ago, moof said:

We’ve had incompetent leaders for the past decade who’ve enacted a regime of austerity. That might’ve had something to do with lack of growth

 

All whilst historically low interest rates. Massive incompetence from the coalition and Conservative government. 

[Vincent Vega]

Council Tax desperately needs reforming. It’s scandalous that people in Westminster, Wandsworth and Kensington & Chelsea pay lower Council Tax than many parts of Liverpool.

[Section_31]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

 

It wasn't, it was between 2013 and 2015.

I meant the previous 10 years to that bit of growth just after the credit crunch, it may have been one particular quarter but the piece I read ages ago said it was basically the shot in the arm that helped save the world economy, that he wanted the EU to expand it but Merkel wouldn't. Sarkozy and Obama thought he was some kind of maverick genius though by all accounts.

 

The coalition's economy policy killed the recovery in its crib. No doubt that was the plan mind, the wealthy got richer and the poor got poorer, and all our public assetts got sold off. It was a pre-planned gank and grab and a job very well and expertly done.

 

As the former Bank of England policy-maker Danny Blanchflower notes in the most recent New Statesman, the budget stimulus led to Britain's economy actually growing 3.1% between the autumns of 2009 and 2010. Under the coalition in the year afterwards, it grew 0.3%.

[The Guest]

1 hour ago, A Red said:

As for VAT i do prefer indirect to direct taxation.

Honestly this is up there with the most daft things I’ve read on here.

[SasaS]

46 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I meant the previous 10 years to that bit of growth just after the credit crunch, it may have been one particular quarter but the piece I read ages ago said it was basically the shot in the arm that helped save the world economy, that he wanted the EU to expand it but Merkel wouldn't. Sarkozy and Obama thought he was some kind of maverick genius though by all accounts.

 

The coalition's economy policy killed the recovery in its crib. No doubt that was the plan mind, the wealthy got richer and the poor got poorer, and all our public assetts got sold off. It was a pre-planned gank and grab and a job very well and expertly done.

 

As the former Bank of England policy-maker Danny Blanchflower notes in the most recent New Statesman, the budget stimulus led to Britain's economy actually growing 3.1% between the autumns of 2009 and 2010. Under the coalition in the year afterwards, it grew 0.3%.

It's possible, but the base was very low at that period, credit crunch peaked in March 2009 globally, and 3.1% annual growth was routine during the Blair years, I don't think the growth period you mentioned was much higher than elsewhere in the biggest EU economies.

 

There are various theories what could have been would have been if this was done or that, you can spend a lifetime studying that.

[Numero Veinticinco]

6 hours ago, A Red said:

Its not about wage earners, its the tax on businesses and land that worries me most. I'm not worried about income tax. Its most definitely his politics to do that.

If you're worried about income tax, then it is about wage earners. He won't want to raise income tax on low to medium earners. Just not happening. What he will do is use rising economy to borrow money that will then expand it even more and hope to balance the books that way. If you're a big business owner, own a mansion or two, and own half of Cornwall, you'd be better voting for somebody else. If you're not, then he's probably not going to shaft you. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, A Red said:

Its not about what I earn so much as the assets that the business owns in order to operate, a business that couldnt swallow an increase in council/land/mansion tax of 3k pa or over. An indication that council tax will be overhauled and no details would mean that i couldnt vote for him. 

 

Dont forget,  the amount of inheritance tax that Tony Benn dodged for his kids, whilst not in the Duke of Westminster league, was still a fair wack.

 

As for VAT i do prefer indirect to direct taxation.

Why would you assume that Labour’s tax plans would be destructive? If I remember the Manifesto correctly, Labour are more likely to introduce a system of taxes, rates, etc to support small businesses and to implement  a moderate increase to corporation tax and try to make corporations actually pay it.  By making taxes fair and by investing in infrastructure, training, education and health, Labour's manifesto proposed supporting businesses in a way that the Tories have utterly failed to do. 

 

Are you happy with the way Council Tax works now? Are you convinced that it is a fair and efficient way of raising funds for essential services? Are you so convinced of that that you are willing to put up with more years of Tory greed, waste and deprivation, just to stop anyone even looking at Council Tax? It doesn't seem to me a good enough reason not to vote Labour. 

 

I think you missed the point I was making when I referred to the Duke of Westminster.  The point is that there are individuals and corporations who are massively wealthy and a fair fiscal system could raise billions for essential public services and investment, just by moderate taxation. 

 

(I'm not sure of your point about Tony Benn. If he was a tax-dodger, then that smacks of hypocrisy and reinforces my view that you should never idolise humans; they'll let you down, because they're human.)

 

VAT is regressive. I prefer progressive taxation.  Preferring indirect to direct makes no sense; you still pay it.

[Section_31]

Stories all over the press today about a third of Britain's billionaires leaving the country for tax havens.

 

The notion that Labour will drive these people out and the Tories won't and that somehow by keeping them hear we all benefit is all clearly bollocks. 

 

They hoover up the cash and then they take the rest of us like a beer can, crush it and throw it over their shoulder. Philip Greene's BHS pensions, slaves Ineos wages, it's just wealth extraction pure and simple until there's nothing left.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, A Red said:

I know it does, I think the Vice President of CND, if he is a man of principle would stand down as PM rather than implement a policy of buying nuclear weapons. 

He's not a Vice President of CND. In fact, I don't think he's ever had any senior role.

 

He was Chair of the Stop the War Coalition, but he stepped down on becoming Leader of the Labour Party. 

[Section_31]

Rico negging my posts now because I can't read and respond to his, desperate times indeed for the wee man.