Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Section_31]

8 hours ago, Strontium Dog said:

Can we stop pretending that the 34th largest lobby in America is controlling American policy in a way that lobbies 1-33 could only dream of? I know Jews are good at getting value for money, but that would be ridiculous. 

Nobody said that. I just found it interesting how one of the new breed of members of the other opposition party in the West is currently being accused of 'shocking anti-Semitism' by its more traditional members when the subject of her original comments appear to be about Israel/Palestine.

[Section_31]

7 hours ago, Hades said:

Which lobby group has the most bankers?

The 'Jews and money' thing is misleading, Jews traditionally weren't forbidden from lending money but Christians were.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 hours ago, Strontium Dog said:

Can we stop pretending that the 34th largest lobby in America is controlling American policy in a way that lobbies 1-33 could only dream of? I know Jews are good at getting value for money, but that would be ridiculous. 

The Israelis don't really need a hugely expensive lobby, because successive US regimes have always strongly supported Israel, first as a bulwark against  (perceived or actual) Soviet imperialism and subsequently as a key strategic ally in US post-Cold War imperialism.  It's ridiculous  (and a bit, y'know, anti-Semitic) to claim that Israel controls any US policy; but it's undeniable that Israel has a special place in US strategic thinking and that the Israeli government enjoys more access and influence in Washington than most nations.

 

I can't help thinking that any member of Congress could freely criticise Germany, the UK, China, Canada or any other country and it would not be considered controversial. But if you criticise Israel, especially if you're a Muslim, then you're in for a shitstorm.

[aRdja]

8 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

The Israel lobby has relatively next to no power in American politics. I mean, in America, there are loads of laws in place which make it illegal for companies to boycott loads of countries. 

 

Such as Israel and.... er..... er..... give me a minute....er....

That would violate the first amendment, no?

[Jose Jones]

Remember when the Scots were traditionally bankers (hence the tight fisted Scotsman stereotype)?

 

We could have had the Scottish lobby in DC getting favourable trade deals for North Sea oil and Irn Bru. 

 

Sean Connery would still be in films and Rab C Nesbitt would still be on the box.

 

They sure fucked that up, what with Bank of Scotland and the GFC and all that.

 

You’ve got to credit the Jews for being far better than the Scots.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

The 'Jews and money' thing is misleading, Jews traditionally weren't forbidden from lending money but Christians were.

This is one of the things that pisses me off about the "Jews funded the slave trade " bollocks. Financiers and bankers funded the slave trade; Jews were over-represented in those professions (in Christian Europe) as a result of centuries of anti-Semitism, which is now being used to fuel new anti-Semitism. 

[Creator Supreme]

I see Dame Margaret is at it again, accusing JC of misleading her now! Just cancel her subs and tell her to go and join the GIMP's, the fucking big paedo enabler! (Allegedly (c) HIGNFY)

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

21 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

I see Dame Margaret is at it again, accusing JC of misleading her now! Just cancel her subs and tell her to go and join the GIMP's, the fucking big paedo enabler! (Allegedly (c) HIGNFY)

She quotes an article in the Observer about individuals intervening and asking for a lesser sanction (warning letter instead of suspension) for defending the infamous mural which, at best, was subtly antisemitic. What one person calls "interfering" another person calls "making representations." 

 

The mural takes us back into the dangerous "trope" territory. If you clumsily fall into using an antisemitic trope, should Hodge et al really be screaming for suspension? Do we ignore context, previous good character, intent etc? If people want to tackle antisemitism, surely raising awareness and educating is part of that process? A firm but fair formal warning to outline that what was said isn't really appropriate and that their future conduct will be monitored and they should be more aware of what they say going forward? Hodge appears to want suspension, suspension, suspension irrespective of the facts and context of an individual case. 

 

Further, in her interview, she fails to mention that the article she seeks to rely on also claims that individuals also intervened in the disciplinary process to propose a more serious level of discipline than the complaints panel were originally going to apply. I wonder why Hodge omitted this bit??? 

 

I won't begin to guess as to why the once media shy Margaret, particularly when she didn't want to give interviews around the time of the child abuse scandal she was linked to, is now practically the co-host of the Radio 4 Today programme... 

[Red Phoenix]

The Guardian were doing ok for a while, but now that it's dinnertime there's the usual Labour antisemitism story right at the top. Predictable boring bullshit. Scrolled down a few paragraphs then closed the page.

 

Would maybe be a bit more realistic if they had a day off every now and then.

[Section_31]

4 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

This is one of the things that pisses me off about the "Jews funded the slave trade " bollocks. Financiers and bankers funded the slave trade; Jews were over-represented in those professions (in Christian Europe) as a result of centuries of anti-Semitism, which is now being used to fuel new anti-Semitism. 

It's also bemusing that people from Liverpool would go on about it, you can't get a brew at the Albert Dock without tripping over something some poor bastards were chained to back in the day.

[Section_31]

49 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

The Guardian were doing ok for a while, but now that it's dinnertime there's the usual Labour antisemitism story right at the top. Predictable boring bullshit. Scrolled down a few paragraphs then closed the page.

 

Would maybe be a bit more realistic if they had a day off every now and then.

I don't think it's calculated smears, I just think your average guardian journo has more in common with a Berger or an Umuna than an old school Labour member. They share much of the same background and views. 

 

You'll find most stuff written about Berger by female guardian journalists for example will talk about her being a woman in a man's world juggling motherhood with a career and all that jazz, will little debate about her politics (or lack of).

 

Same with Umuna. Your average guardian senior editor would be like a pig in shit going for a babycham with him, Clegg and Osborne and putting the world to rights. Three empty, monied suits.

[aRdja]

1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

I don't think it's calculated smears, I just think your average guardian journo has more in common with a Berger or an Umuna than an old school Labour member. They share much of the same background and views. 

 

You'll find most stuff written about Berger by female guardian journalists for example will talk about her being a woman in a man's world juggling motherhood with a career and all that jazz, will little debate about her politics (or lack of).

 

Same with Umuna. Your average guardian senior editor would be like a pig in shit going for a babycham with him, Clegg and Osborne and putting the world to rights. Three empty, monied suits.

Or that it’s a story that sells and generates clicks.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Just had a bit more of a read up on this Hodge interview. Why is what is nothing more than a hearsay allegation with (at the moment) no substantiating evidence being given airtime and reported on as of it's the truth? That's truly astounding. 

 

Plus, Hodge is not happy with Corbyn. Not happy with Formby. Not happy with Labour. Not happy with Falconer. Wasn't happy with Milliband. I think we all know the one thing which will make her happy...

 

Which takes us back to the Williamson appeasement standpoint. Nothing will ever be enough. 

 

Basically, Hodge appears to be saying that she believes an anonymous whistle-blower over everybody else. Also, I believe she equated anti-zionism (which isn't exclusively being against Israel existing, zionism ended in 1948, anti-zionism in its current context includes anti-colonialism and anti-occupation) with antisemitism. Nope. Sorry Marg. Not having that. 

 

Plus, without any correction being issued, I believe Nick Robinson falsely claimed that Corbyn shared the now infamous ambiguous bankers mural on social media. That's simply untrue. He commented on a post which had a picture of the mural attached. Robinson also went on to claim that the Labour "antisemitism crisis" had resulted in TWO Jewish MP's leaving the Labour Party. He again appears to be incorrectly claiming that Joan Ryan is Jewish, when she's not. 

 

It's totally ridiculous. There's barely anybody willing to hold these people to account for the falsehoods they're spewing out on live TV/radio. 

[Section_31]

Clarkson finding it amusing and calling Corbyn a cunt now, unlike May who is 'just ineffective'.

 

Ironically Clarkson is emblematic of the double standards on display in the media, an absolute laundry list of 'racist bantz' under his belt. I see Alan Sugar is back on telly again too promoting his new show after comparing an African football team to sunglasses salesmen in Spain.

 

It's this double standards 'the left' gets sick of, it's not even subtle - comically so in fact.    

[Babb'sBurstNad]

5 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

Remember when the Scots were traditionally bankers (hence the tight fisted Scotsman stereotype)?

 

We could have had the Scottish lobby in DC getting favourable trade deals for North Sea oil and Irn Bru. 

 

Sean Connery would still be in films and Rab C Nesbitt would still be on the box.

 

They sure fucked that up, what with Bank of Scotland and the GFC and all that.

 

You’ve got to credit the Jews for being far better than the Scots.

Mel Gibson disliked this

[cloggypop]

9 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Mel Gibson disliked this

Mel Gibson also disliked my mate Adrian lashing a full cabbage off his head while filming Braveheart. The cabbage smashing off his face makes it into the film and Mel went with it but as soon as filming was cut he was screaming which cunt threw that fucking cabbage and was watching the rushes to try and find out while Adrian tried not to snigger. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/05/margaret-hodge-corbyn-misled-me-over-antisemitism-labour

 

If this is what all the latest Hodge tantrum is over, well, it's quite pathetic. And is being twisted. A request to clarify why somebody thinks a mural (which some think is antisemitic and others don't) is "great" is entirely reasonable. As is deciding whether education or suspension is appropriate once those clarifications have been provided. 

 

I'm extremely pleased that Labour have such a common sense disciplinary process which recognises that the "trope" aspect can often lead to clumsy borderline antisemitism, for which education and a reminder of appropriate conduct is sufficient sanction, and is different to intentional, malicious antisemitism done to cause offence, for which sterner sanctions are necessary. 

 

I hope the artificially created "crisis" doesn't pressurise Labour to depart from this common sense approach. 

[Dr Nowt]

38 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Mel Gibson also disliked my mate Adrian lashing a full cabbage off his head while filming Braveheart. The cabbage smashing off his face makes it into the film and Mel went with it but as soon as filming was cut he was screaming which Jewish cunt threw that fucking cabbage and was watching the rushes to try and find out while Adrian tried not to snigger. 

 

[Anubis]

43 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Mel Gibson also disliked my mate Adrian lashing a full cabbage off his head while filming Braveheart. The cabbage smashing off his face makes it into the film and Mel went with it but as soon as filming was cut he was screaming which cunt threw that fucking cabbage and was watching the rushes to try and find out while Adrian tried not to snigger. 

 

Health and safety issue there. Surely it should have been a sponge cabbage prop? 

[Section_31]

52 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Mel Gibson also disliked my mate Adrian lashing a full cabbage off his head while filming Braveheart. The cabbage smashing off his face makes it into the film and Mel went with it but as soon as filming was cut he was screaming which cunt threw that fucking cabbage and was watching the rushes to try and find out while Adrian tried not to snigger. 

*emails Gibson's agent with information and bank details 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

It appears that poor Hodgey might have had a bit of a "senior moment." 

 

Corbyn told her that the leadership team don't get involved in the decision making process for antisemitism complaints under the revised process introduced by Jennie Formby. Formby took office as General Secretary on 8 April 2018.

 

The leaks about the mural complaint and the email showing that advice was sought from the leadership team on one complaint are from March 2018. Before Formby officially took office. Therefore, not the current complaints process. 

 

If anything, Hodge should be applauding Corbyn and Formby etc for making the complaints process more transparent and less politicised. She's got herself a bit mixed up. Like she does when paying tax. 

 

Here are the leaked emails. Again, we'll done Murray for adopting a common sense approach. 

 

 

[cloggypop]

22 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

*emails Gibson's agent with information and bank details 

Adrian has since won multiple gold medals in Kung Fu. Just imagine how hard he can lash a cabbage at your head. 

 

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2014/03/25/limerick-man-kearns-claims-five-medals-in-kung-fu-worlds/

[Rico1304]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-islamophobia-racism-suspended-member-conservatives-a8808571.html

[Anubis]

6 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Adrian has since won multiple gold medals in Kung Fu. Just imagine how hard he can lash a cabbage at your head. 

 

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2014/03/25/limerick-man-kearns-claims-five-medals-in-kung-fu-worlds/

 

I'm sure Gibson can afford a team from Blackwater (or whatever they call themselves now) to take Adrian down.

[Red Phoenix]

4 hours ago, Section_31 said:

I don't think it's calculated smears, I just think your average guardian journo has more in common with a Berger or an Umuna than an old school Labour member. They share much of the same background and views. 

 

You'll find most stuff written about Berger by female guardian journalists for example will talk about her being a woman in a man's world juggling motherhood with a career and all that jazz, will little debate about her politics (or lack of).

 

Same with Umuna. Your average guardian senior editor would be like a pig in shit going for a babycham with him, Clegg and Osborne and putting the world to rights. Three empty, monied suits.

 

Could be partly that, won't be surprised if there's an agenda from at least a few of the staff though. Will try to check regularly for a while and see how many days we actually have without the story being mentioned. If it's almost every day would definitely think there's more to it.

 

Apparently Hodge this morning on Radio 4 called out "anti-Zionism" as being unacceptable instead of anti-Semitism. Maybe it was just a slip up, but good if she really meant it and more of them do the same because this will be exposed a lot sooner if so. Probably a mistake though, they seem to be doing well as things are with the bullshit and pushing it that far would be a stupid move on their part.

 

Omar is getting a lot of support in the US at the moment too. If someone in Labour would just fucking speak out and keep at it on social media or something, even if suspended from the party, they could get something similar going as people start connecting the two issues together.