Jump to content
  • Sign up for free and receive a month's subscription

    You are viewing this page as a guest. That means you are either a member who has not logged in, or you have not yet registered with us. Signing up for an account only takes a minute and it means you will no longer see this annoying box! It will also allow you to get involved with our friendly(ish!) community and take part in the discussions on our forums. And because we're feeling generous, if you sign up for a free account we will give you a month's free trial access to our subscriber only content with no obligation to commit. Register an account and then send a private message to @dave u and he'll hook you up with a subscription.

Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?


Sugar Ape
 Share

Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?  

218 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?



Recommended Posts

There is a simple reason for the discrepancy here. People cheating the welfare state are taking other people's money, whereas someone trying to diminish their tax burden is trying to keep more of their own money.

 

In pithier terms, welfare cheats are stealing money, and tax avoiders are trying to stop their money being stolen.

Is this the Toryest quote ever posted on here? Has to be a contender.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is this the Toryest quote ever posted on here? Has to be a contender.

 

I am explaining to you why common attitudes towards tax avoidance and benefit theft are at variance to each other.

 

Quite how this is "Tory", I do not know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Been catching up in here and it's interesting. 

 

It seems to me that there is a mood to swing over to a fairer society, and while it's not quite irresistible yet, it will get there. A hung Parliament is a big step in the right direction for Labour. And from afar, I'd have to say that there's a lot more substance to Corbyn than I first thought. 

 

I'm hoping the same sort of thing catches on over here. There was a lot of hope as Bernie Sanders ran for the Democratic nomination, but then it hit the buffers. I don't think it's going to go away though, and it will organize again and come back again, stronger. 

 

I think that's what will happen for Labour. It's desperately difficult to overcome the status quo as not only are you trying to get your ideas across, but you are doing so in a situation where the deck is stacked against you as you do not hold the machinery of power in your hands. 

 

If the Tories hang on with a hung Parliament it will be ineffective. Labour will come again. People want a fairer society. At our best we are decent. Most people want the right to earn and do well for themselves and their families, but never to the extent that it puts loads of others on the scrapheap. That strikes me as un-British. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This just raises more questions than it answers, to be honest. Is the argument that more tax (and, consequently, less control of personal spending) is equal to more civilisation? Because I can show you some extremely uncivilised places where people get to keep less of their own money than we do.

 

As Rico has pointed out, he's not opposed to paying tax, he just feels that he pays enough. Chances are that he's paid a lot more tax in his life than some sad little virgin living in his mum's cellar ever will, yet the latter would no doubt decry the former as selfish, which I find supremely ironic.

 

Well, what's the Lib Dems answer to it? Borrowing 15 billion out of the 30 billion pound bill your manifesto costs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just wanted to comment on the dialog with Rico and others I've been reading over the last few pages too.

 

I don't know any of the players involved, and can only go by what I'm reading on here, but I just want to say Rico is more than entitled to vote as he pleases. I disagree ideologically with the Tories, but the fact is they are one of the two great political parties in Britain, and the way it is coming across is almost as though Rico has voted for some sort of extremist fringe outfit. 

 

The thinking is reasonable too. Nobody likes to pay tax, but it's a fact of life. Rico pays his taxes according to the tax bracket he is in, based on his income, and as such he does his bit for society. 

 

Surely there's bigger fish to fry if we are intent on having a spat about people paying their taxes? What about the whole system of tax cuts and avoidance for large corporations? Then what about the various schemes for the super rich, the 1%? 

 

Anyhow, peace and love to all. The political threads on here make for interesting and informative reading. 

  • Upvote 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, what's the Lib Dems answer to it? Borrowing 15 billion out of the 30 billion pound bill your manifesto costs?

 

The Lib Dems' own costings admitted that they would borrow £14bn out of the £30bn of spending commitments in their manifesto, so I'm not sure what your point is?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know any of the players involved, and can only go by what I'm reading on here, but I just want to say Rico is more than entitled to vote as he pleases. I disagree ideologically with the Tories, but the fact is they are one of the two great political parties in Britain, and the way it is coming across is almost as though Rico has voted for some sort of extremist fringe outfit. 

 

This version of the Tories, hell bent on hard Brexit and extreme austerity, is an extremist fringe outfit.  The British public are conned into thinking they're a mainstream competent party.  They are not - look at the state of the country.  

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just wanted to comment on the dialog with Rico and others I've been reading over the last few pages too.

 

I don't know any of the players involved, and can only go by what I'm reading on here, but I just want to say Rico is more than entitled to vote as he pleases. I disagree ideologically with the Tories, but the fact is they are one of the two great political parties in Britain, and the way it is coming across is almost as though Rico has voted for some sort of extremist fringe outfit. 

 

The thinking is reasonable too. Nobody likes to pay tax, but it's a fact of life. Rico pays his taxes according to the tax bracket he is in, based on his income, and as such he does his bit for society. 

 

Surely there's bigger fish to fry if we are intent on having a spat about people paying their taxes? What about the whole system of tax cuts and avoidance for large corporations? Then what about the various schemes for the super rich, the 1%? 

 

Anyhow, peace and love to all. The political threads on here make for interesting and informative reading. 

 

Agreed. They're not a fringe outfit, sadly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just wanted to comment on the dialog with Rico and others I've been reading over the last few pages too.

 

I don't know any of the players involved, and can only go by what I'm reading on here, but I just want to say Rico is more than entitled to vote as he pleases. I disagree ideologically with the Tories, but the fact is they are one of the two great political parties in Britain, and the way it is coming across is almost as though Rico has voted for some sort of extremist fringe outfit.

 

The thinking is reasonable too. Nobody likes to pay tax, but it's a fact of life. Rico pays his taxes according to the tax bracket he is in, based on his income, and as such he does his bit for society.

 

Surely there's bigger fish to fry if we are intent on having a spat about people paying their taxes? What about the whole system of tax cuts and avoidance for large corporations? Then what about the various schemes for the super rich, the 1%?

 

Anyhow, peace and love to all. The political threads on here make for interesting and informative reading.

 

Spot on, completely agree. I've never knocked Rico for his political beliefs or his reasons for voting the way he does. That's his business and it is to be respected. My argument was the reason many didn't vote Labour - not because of policies, but rather the horrendous treatment Corbyn has received from the Tory owned press, the BBC and the right wing of his own party. As per the thread title...
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My understanding is the British people voted for Brexit in a referendum. The Tories are implementing it as they are the government in power. Theresa May wanted clarity and a better mandate to do that, so called for an election. Unfortunately a hung Parliament has only delivered more uncertainty. 

 

Further, I think she was personally against Brexit. From afar it looked to me as though a load of sniveling little sh**s stirred all that up, and then when they won the vote, they either scarpered, or stabbed each other in the back and then scarpered. 

 

Corbyn is better than I first thought though. There's more substance there. I had dismissed him as some sort of Geography teacher-type, but there's a bit of steel to the fella to go along with the joined up thinking. 

 

A fairer society will emerge. 

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My argument was the reason many didn't vote Labour - not because of policies, but rather the horrendous treatment Corbyn has received from the Tory owned press, the BBC and the right wing of his own party. As per the thread title...

 

That's all fair enough. Corbyn has had a rough ride. It looks like enough people are starting to see that, so hopefully change will come. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My understanding is the British people voted for Brexit in a referendum. The Tories are implementing it as they are the government in power. Theresa May wanted clarity and a better mandate to do that, so called for an election. Unfortunately a hung Parliament has only delivered more uncertainty. 

 

Further, I think she was personally against Brexit. From afar it looked to me as though a load of sniveling little sh**s stirred all that up, and then when they won the vote, they either scarpered, or stabbed each other in the back and then scarpered. 

 

Corbyn is better than I first thought though. There's more substance there. I had dismissed him as some sort of Geography teacher-type, but there's a bit of steel to the fella to go along with the joined up thinking. 

 

A fairer society will emerge. 

I'm sorry G I've had to neg you for that outrageous slur against Geography teachers

I'm sure what you meant to say was that he was so good he almost reached the giddy heights occupied only by Geography teachers and Jurgen Klopp

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Lib Dems' own costings admitted that they would borrow £14bn out of the £30bn of spending commitments in their manifesto, so I'm not sure what your point is?

 

My point is Labour and the Tories both have an answer to the problems you pose about taxes.

 

Labour believe that public services are essential to the proper functioning of a society. It's important to create a free healthcare system that we all pay into because everyone will need it at some stage of their life. It's important to pay for free schooling because every child needs to be educated to become a productive member of society etc. Everything has to be paid for, so they tax people a bit more and make up the majority of the money from the richest people and the corporations because they have the most money to give. 

 

The Tories answer is no public services, or as little as possible to function. They believe in privatising everything so they don't have to pay for it. You pay for your healthcare, you pay for your education and you pay for everything else in life. In return they'll lower your taxes so you'll have more personal spending. They make up the money by selling off the public services so you can pay less tax.

 

Both ideologies answer the question of funding the economy. The Lib Dems don't. The Lib Dems have never been in power so they don't understand the reality of balancing the books. They want to keep taxes low like the Tories but also have the public services running the same as Labour. That's impossible. So what ends up happening is they have to borrow money to make their manifesto a reality. Then they have the temerity to attack Labour and accuse them of having a "magic money tree" when they borrow at a near 50% ratio.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Labour has gained 150,000 new members in the three days since the election.

 

The Conservative Party has just under 150,000 members in total.

Only just catching up with this thread but I ended up joining myself this morning. I'd been thinking about it for a while but Corbyn's the only real reason I've joined and it would have been a waste of my time if the media agenda had succeeded and Labour had lost in a landslide.

 

Going back further than that, Corbyn's the main reason I started taking a real interest in politics. That along with getting ill and realising I'm gonna be making more use of the NHS than a lot of others will need to. Looking forward to getting involved now.

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...