Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[dennis tooth]

Oh for the luxury of pumping drains.

And there for the party, lies the problem.

Well they elected him so it's what they want. There's a few here struggling to grasp democracy.

[Chip Butty]

Well they elected him so it's what they want. There's a few here struggling to grasp democracy.

The policies and democracy I'm bought in to and the more left of center the party sits, the happier I am but, as sad and as ethically and politically bankrupt as it is, personality is key to win an election.

With the floating voter being a major loss for the party in the last election, its key we win those votes back and policy alone is not going to do that, there has to be someone at the helm that people believe in. Yes core labour voters will stick with the party, but those floating voters need to be brought back in. Is Jeremy the man to do that? I'd like to think yes, which is what my heart tells me, but my head tells me not a chance. 

[Denny Crane]

I seen a few commentators in America say that Hillary Clinton talked more about the black vote and gender than Obama did.

 

In other words they were saying if you make skin colour or gender the issue you are fucked.

 

No surprise that when Khan ran to be mayor the opposition did their best to drag religion/race into it. London is the outlier though; even though I think people in the UK are less bigoted and tolerant than has been suggested. Don't underestimate the ability for the opposition to invoke patriotism as a tactic as we have seen countless times.

 

 

I think people overlook two key reasons why Corbyn appeals to the membership. Firstly he genuinely wants to have them involved not just have all the power centrally. Corbyn and his team genuinely want a more democratic approach to politics. Secondly he has a track record of 30 odd years of making good judgement calls on key issues.

[dennis tooth]

The policies and democracy I'm bought in to and the more left of center the party sits, the happier I am but, as sad and as ethically and politically bankrupt as it is, personality is key to win an election.

With the floating voter being a major loss for the party in the last election, its key we win those votes back and policy alone is not going to do that, there has to be someone at the helm that people believe in. Yes core labour voters will stick with the party, but those floating voters need to be brought back in. Is Jeremy the man to do that? I'd like to think yes, which is what my heart tells me, but my head tells me not a chance.

It's not like you have ever been wrong on anything or that you are somewhat skewed in you only occupy the here and now of timespace.

 

There won't be an election any time soon. Theresa May would not call one she wants to oversee us leaving or part one of the process, she is naturally cautious and low self esteem and scared stiff by the prospect and it's very difficult to do that now even if she wanted. Her party has enough obstacles to navigate ahead and the media may not be able to hold public opinion whwre it is now as time under her leadership progresses.

Every desperate attack on corbyn is the oppositte of what many are claiming as it tells you he is a threat and he will continue to build.

[Denny Crane]

ANATOMY OF MAINSTREAM, ANTI-CORBYN FAKE-NEWS: A CASE-STUDY

31/03/2017 · by SKWAWKBOX · Bookmark the permalink. ·

Over the last 24 hours on Twitter there was a perfect example of how mainstream fake news happens. Of course, it’s an old story – on Wednesday, a lazy article claimed Corbyn had asked no questions on Brexit in PMQs (Prime Minister’s Questions) even though the reporter knew that Theresa May was making her Article 50 statement after PMQs, to which Corbyn asked many pointed questions – but the fake news stuck in the minds of some, perhaps many.

Similarly, the nonsense about Corbyn ‘failing’ to declare part of his income in his tax return was thoroughly debunked immediately after it was claimed – but just a couple of days ago, mainstream publications like the Evening Standard were repeating it as fact. Lazy journalism or malicious – either way it’s inexcusable.

Today’s example started with an ill-phrased Twitter comment yesterday by Buzzfeed journalist Marie Le Conte in which she complained about slow responses by Labour to requests for quotes from the leadership:

Others jumped in, ready (or keen) to reinforce the apparent point that Corbyn’s comms team is slow and, presumably, ill-organised:

Within half an hour, Jeremy Corbyn’s ‘LOTO’ (Leader of the Opposition) head of communications, Matt Zarb-Cousin, responded quickly to make the point that he, well, always responds within half an hour:

To her credit, Ms Le Conte was quick to backtrack and clarify:

 

[Denny Crane]

However, in the interim, a host of ‘journalists’, no doubt happy to have a ready-to-eat Corbyn-kicking/Labour-bashing story on hand, had already started to spread the original, misleading comment as ‘news’. Sam Coates of the Times appears to have been fastest:

Quickly followed by a ‘Who’s Who’ of anti-Corbyn/pro-LibDem journalists and hacks:

That vital ingredient in the anti-Corbyn fake-news soufflé – the self-serving blairite malcontent(s) keen to stir the excrement – wasn’t absent for long. In this case, it was one of the worst, Neil Coyle, who was quick to capitalise:

[Denny Crane]

Once word got around about Matt Zarb-Cousin’s response and Ms Le Conte’s subsequent correction, other journalists, including right-wingers such as Guido Fawkes – plus one or two of those who’d jumped on the wrong bandwagon, to be fair to them – acknowledged it:

Not the odious Coyle, of course.

But the narrative of incompetent/inefficient comms at Jeremy Corbyn’s office was already set – and anyone who didn’t catch the later corrections or who only followed those who failed to correct will still be carrying the fake-news around with them as if factual.

Ms Le Conte did make one serious point, of course. The official Labour press and social media teams are very poor – but according to Labour insiders, that’s by design – and we’ve already seen the evidence, such as last year’s ‘#TeamGlitterballs’ fiasco.

A senior Labour source told the SKWAWKBOX:

The Labour Press team has been dire, but that’s not by accident, and some people are all too happy to portray performance as poor to try to make Jeremy look week. That’s why he had to set up his own comms team on Twitter – and they’ve done brilliantly.

Indeed. So well, it seems, that some are more than happy to exploit any opportunity to undermine them – even while some of Labour’s natural enemies acknowledge the job they’re doing.

This case study will, I hope, make it all too clear how the mainstream is often responsible for either generating or propagating fake-news, whether it starts by accident or design – and how important it is for us not only to be awake to how it happens, but to take responsibility for getting real news and truer perspectives out into general circulation.

Jeremy’s own team is clearly doing well – but they can’t do it all on their own. Over to you, dear reader.

 

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/03/31/anatomy-of-mainstream-anti-corbyn-fake-news-a-case-study/

[Rocky Sullivan]

None of that matters really does it? The project failed, Labour are tonking in the polls and Nuttalls of the UKIPs is more popular than Corbs in a poll conducted in London. It would be nothing short of miraculous if Labour came even close to the Tories in 2020 under current circumstances. I'm speaking as one who enthusiastically voted JC in 2015 and rather reluctantly last year. He has to go or we definitely will be heading for 2 decades of the horse-fuckers in charge.

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Neil G]

He's not the new Obama he is the new other black labour guy who the likes of sec bigged up that I can't remember the name of as a form of voodoo doll for projecting their ideals onto because they loved the social justice warrior fakes who look like they've walked out of a catalogue their ma used to order their trackies in as they heard they once helped an old lady cross the road from their pr agency secretley run by spooks as no right minded spook would leaver democracy to nutters like the general population. Or something. They fall for it every time. Pity them.

I wasn't saying he's the new Obama, I was simply saying that people were wrong when they said Americans would never elect a black president, and it's wrong to imply British voters won't elect a black PM.

 

If you want to get into comparisons though, Obama is the very definition of the kind of politician you're slating there, a blank canvas that people project their hopes and ideals onto. Lewis isn't like that, he's genuine. He's been consistent in his opposition to neoliberalism and austerity since before he became an MP.

 

Sounds like the other guy you're thinking of is Chuka Umunna, again very different from Lewis.

[Jairzinho]

Wasn't it Umunna who edited his own wiki page to call himself the British Obama?

[Neil G]

Wasn't it Umunna who edited his own wiki page to call himself the British Obama?

The story I read was that one of his staff did it without his knowledge.

[Denny Crane]

None of that matters really does it? The project failed, Labour are tonking in the polls and Nuttalls of the UKIPs is more popular than Corbs in a poll conducted in London. It would be nothing short of miraculous if Labour came even close to the Tories in 2020 under current circumstances. I'm speaking as one who enthusiastically voted JC in 2015 and rather reluctantly last year. He has to go or we definitely will be heading for 2 decades of the horse-fuckers in charge.

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

You could make a case small details definantly matter as they shape the perception. 

 

Project failed, a collective failure more like.  It's like some of your team have been bought by the dodgy Asian markets and are scoring in their own net. Then blaming the manager. The biggest deliberate sabotage that most of us will ever witness.

 

But my overriding view is certain influential people within politics and the media won't be satisfied; until the direction of Labour conforms to a path extremely close to the conservatives. I'd be astonished if in 2017 that doesn't end up in complete anhilation.

 

Labour will be in exile as long as they refuse to look around the country and look introspectively. Corbyn and his team have recognised that.

 

Anyway it's only halftime.

[Bobby Hundreds]

My vote will be going to whoever wants to bring in proportional representation. Should start a PR party with the one intention of bringing in PR nothing else, then calling another election under PR. It's about time a vote felt like it was worth something.

[VladimirIlyich]

I seen a few commentators in America say that Hillary Clinton talked more about the black vote and gender than Obama did.

 

In other words they were saying if you make skin colour or gender the issue you are fucked.

 

No surprise that when Khan ran to be mayor the opposition did their best to drag religion/race into it. London is the outlier though; even though I think people in the UK are less bigoted and tolerant than has been suggested. Don't underestimate the ability for the opposition to invoke patriotism as a tactic as we have seen countless times.

 

 

I think people overlook two key reasons why Corbyn appeals to the membership. Firstly he genuinely wants to have them involved not just have all the power centrally. Corbyn and his team genuinely want a more democratic approach to politics. Secondly he has a track record of 30 odd years of making good judgement calls on key issues.

I think your last paragraph is spot on Dennis. I do have to admit that personality has now overtaken ability when it comes to being a political leader though,more's the pity.

[Denny Crane]

Haha an article in the Guardian written by a fellow red on Labour, Corbyn and adhd that references Rafa Benitez and Brendan Rodgers. Here are some snippets.

 

 

While I am highly sceptical of opinion polls, the apparent size of the gap between the parties is daunting. A seismic shift will be needed for Labour to take power, even in 2020, but seismic shifts can happen in politics. Two years ago, Donald Trump was the punchline to a joke, George Osborne was destined to be the next Tory prime minister and Corbyn was a lovely old guy from the 1980s. We suffer from societal ADHD: forgetting what we thought yesterday and thinking that how things are today is how they will always be.

 

The polling is frustrating because Corbyn has the policies to really break through. Building more council houses, nationalising the railways, properly funding the NHS, closing tax loopholes, defending the rights of workers. These are all popular with the public even while Corbyn himself languishes in the approval ratings.

 

Blaming “the media” for the Labour leader’s poor ratings might seem churlish and blinkered but I honestly can’t remember a time when every single national newspaper set its stall out against a leader of the opposition. Every comment from his allies is examined for signs of impatience and every disagreement on the left is couched in terms of his failings.

 

Corbyn, we are told, has lost the working northern vote that is Labour’s bedrock. But the working classes didn’t abandon Labour – the border moved and they found themselves sitting in no man’s land. The same Labour MPs who ignored the working classes for 30 years were now blaming Corbyn for not being able to win them back in 18 months.

 

But beyond the press and jittery MPs, we have to be honest about Corbyn’s failings. The main criticism, even among those who warm to his politics and integrity, is that he isn’t able to communicate his messages clearly. He hasn’t, so the charge goes, managed to present his story and himself in a way that is convincing to any but diehard supporters.

 

“I like him, I like his policies, I like his integrity,” they say, “but he can’t convince other people, so it’s all pointless.” I’d argue if you are on board with the policies then why not spend your energies in helping argue for them? Rather than thinking in terms of a leader coming in and doing all the work, let’s think of a movement with each of us doing our bit to bring about the changes we want. If Corbyn doesn’t give great speeches then someone else should do some of the heavy lifting. But if you can’t lend your hand, as Dylan said: “Don’t stand in the doorway, don’t block up the hall.”

 

I can’t say all of this, though, without admitting I have a fatal flaw. I’m unbearably loyal. I’m a Liverpool fan who was still chanting for Rafa Benítez and Brendan Rodgers long after their sell-by dates had passed. While the Tories focus on playing the man instead of the ball, there is always the opportunity to pass to another player and turn the polls on their heads. Decades of a centrally controlled Labour party, however, has led to a dearth of genuine socialist options. There are some young prospects but none that are obviously placed to take up the leftwing mantle. If it turns out that Corbyn isn’t the messiah but is, in fact, John the Baptist, I’ll be relaxed.

Although from memory, it didn’t end too well for John.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/31/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-general-election-2020

[Jairzinho]

Well in, JP.

[King Emlyn]

It matters.

Anyway corbyn will wipe the Tories off the map in the next election so it's just fools discussing unevents.

This level of delusion is borderline beautiful.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Ethically he is a sound guy, a modern day Micheal Foot(if modern is the correct word in this term) so to speak, but, like Foot, unfortunately for them both, personality is a key element of politics and to be fair the guy, he just ain't got it. Leaders need to be charismatic, influential and inspire, he just ain't any of them. Time to go Jeremy I'm afraid.

As charismatic, influential and inspiring as Theresa May?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

None of that matters really does it? The project failed, Labour are tonking in the polls and Nuttalls of the UKIPs is more popular than Corbs in a poll conducted in London. It would be nothing short of miraculous if Labour came even close to the Tories in 2020 under current circumstances. I'm speaking as one who enthusiastically voted JC in 2015 and rather reluctantly last year. He has to go or we definitely will be heading for 2 decades of the horse-fuckers in charge.

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Remember when we all started screaming "Rafa out" without thinking of who would, or could, replace him?

 

And then we got Hodgson.

 

Great times.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

But beyond the press and jittery MPs, we have to be honest about Corbyn’s failings. The main criticism, even among those who warm to his politics and integrity, is that he isn’t able to communicate his messages clearly. He hasn’t, so the charge goes, managed to present his story and himself in a way that is convincing to any but diehard supporters.

“I like him, I like his policies, I like his integrity,” they say, “but he can’t convince other people, so it’s all pointless.” I’d argue if you are on board with the policies then why not spend your energies in helping argue for them? Rather than thinking in terms of a leader coming in and doing all the work, let’s think of a movement with each of us doing our bit to bring about the changes we want. If Corbyn doesn’t give great speeches then someone else should do some of the heavy lifting. But if you can’t lend your hand, as Dylan said: “Don’t stand in the doorway, don’t block up the hall.”

Exactamundo!

 

It's a tragedy that that anti-democratic, anti-Labour cunt Watson got the Deputy's job. I've no idea how the other candidates would have acted, but I can't imagine they'd have been more of boon to the Tories than the silent-disco gobshite.

[Anubis]

Corbyn's not leaving the leadership before September, and the attacks on him from the right of the party will become more desperate and increase the nearer we get to voting on the McDonnell amendment at conference. Sadly, that's inevitable.

[Cardie]

As charismatic, influential and inspiring as Theresa May?

 

May fell in to the job so hasn't needed to be, if you want to win rather than maintain then you will.

[Rico1304]

Worth a read...

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/labour-bus-jeremy-corbyn-memes

[skend04]

Worth a read...

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/labour-bus-jeremy-corbyn-memes

No wonder he avoids the mainstream media game when he's clearly shit at it and got a team that's shit at using it. The tweets would make more sense if they just smashed their hands randomly on a keyboard and pressed send.

[Anubis]

The New Statesman are fully aware Corbyn doesn't control the Labour press office which is staffed with people loyal to Watson and McNicol. Hence having to set up an alternative Twitter account of his own. And no, he can't do anything about firing them as he doesn't have that power under the party structure.

 

And they're infographics, not memes.

 

You can make your cult comment now, Rico.