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Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?  

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  1. 1. Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?



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9 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Is Patel complaining that the French aren't racist enough? 


No, they’re too racist so they all need to come suckle of the safe, liberal bosom that is the forever welcoming UK teat.  

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18 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

Surely that's a parody?

I cant understand people who dislike Jeremy Corbyn. To not like Corbyn is to me the sign of a wrong en.

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12 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Haha. Oh, do fuck off! 

EffcFWFWAAARWd_.jpeg

Liam Thorp from the Echo tweeted this with the comment "The absolute state of this tripe" - which really leaves little more to be said.

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As a rule it's best to avoid lumping all Jewish people together into a homogenous mass called "the Jewish community" - and it's definitely best not to link "the Jewish community" with any anti-Semitic tropes.

 

How are people still not getting this?

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26 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

As a rule it's best to avoid lumping all Jewish people together into a homogenous mass called "the Jewish community" - and it's definitely best not to link "the Jewish community" with any anti-Semitic tropes.

 

How are people still not getting this?

Is it ok to (when it’s true) point out that a number of extremely wealthy men, a fair number of which happened to be Jewish, stood to lose a few extra quid based on Corbyn plans if he became PM and a campaign began falsely accusing the man of being anti-Semitic which gained so much traction that it ultimately cost him the election? Is it also fair to suggest that these men weald a lot of power in politics etc without being labelled anti-Semitic ? Or do we have to keep our mouths shut about it because a number of them are Jewish? 

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Just now, Stront19m Dog™ said:

This belief that Jews=Rich is the entire basis of the antisemitism issue on the left. The left liked Jews when they were poor, marginalised and stateless.

Who holds that belief? I personally don’t automatically assume that someone is wealthy if they are Jewish? I do know that something like16 of the wealthiest 100 men in the uk are Jewish when their population is more like 1%. That’s some stat. 
 

You have just generalised “the left” as well which is really quite some level of hypocrisy when complaining about generalising people. 

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4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Who holds that belief? I personally don’t automatically assume that someone is wealthy if they are Jewish? I do know that something like16 of the wealthiest 100 men in the uk are Jewish when their population is more like 1%. That’s some stat. 
 

You have just generalised “the left” as well which is really quite some level of hypocrisy when complaining about generalising people. 

 

So, you don't automatically think Jews are wealthy, but then you're pointing out how many wealthy Jews there are. Hmmm.

 

I'd say it was hard to talk about the antisemitism issue on the left without referring to the left, so some generalisation is inevitable. I accept that the left is not a monolithic movement.

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4 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

So, you don't automatically think Jews are wealthy, but then you're pointing out how many wealthy Jews there are. Hmmm.

 

I'd say it was hard to talk about the antisemitism issue on the left without referring to the left, so some generalisation is inevitable. I accept that the left is not a monolithic movement.

What is “hmmm” about it? If somebody tells me they are Jewish I don’t automatically assume they are wealthy. 
 

How is that hard to understand? If there were only 16 Jews in the uk and they all happened to be in the top 100 wealthiest and I said that them “hmmm” would be a perfect reply. Instead you are trying to twist a point. 
 

Nope SD, you were hypocritical. As usual. 

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16 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

This belief that Jews=Rich is the entire basis of the antisemitism issue on the left. The left liked Jews when they were poor, marginalised and stateless.

Well by your own explanation it seems the left are willing to help poor people with no home regardless of who or what they are.

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This growing jumping towards identity politics that is so popular is destructive. I'm left wing but I don't like 'the Jews' or dislike 'the Jews'; I like some Jewish people and dislike some other Jewish people, but not because they are Jewish but because of how they act and who they are as an individual. It's really easy not to be racist. You just stop prejudging people on arbitrary factors. 

 

As for wealth of Jews, you can quite easily not prejudge Jews as being wealthy whilst accepting that the list of the most wealthy have an overrepresentation of Jews. If it's a fact, it's a fact. It's absolutely no different from saying 'not all white people are wealthy but many wealthy people are white'. Males too. 

 

Anyway, attempting to direct it back to the topic. Corbyn's allies rarely seem to do him any favours. I think Murray's comments were so fucking stupid. Labourites can't seem to leave the subject of antisemitism alone. It's like a scab they can't stop picking. 

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20 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

This belief that Jews=Rich is the entire basis of the antisemitism issue on the left. The left liked Jews when they were poor, marginalised and stateless.

Remembering always that anti-Semitism is  very much a minority vice in left-wing politics  - while it remains commonplace on the right - the main source of anti-Semitism on the left is the elision from justifiable criticism of the Apartheid state of Israel to blaming of "the Jews". A secondary source of anti-Semitism is belief in conspiracy theories, which lead to Soros and the Rothschilds and all that anti-Semitic bullshit. 

 

If Corbyn's enemies hadn’t pressured the NEC into dropping its proposed Code of Conduct, the Party would be much better equipped to stamp out anti-Semitism before it takes root. 

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6 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Remembering always that anti-Semitism is  very much a minority vice in left-wing politics  - while it remains commonplace on the right - the main source of anti-Semitism on the left is the elision from justifiable criticism of the Apartheid state of Israel to blaming of "the Jews". A secondary source of anti-Semitism is belief in conspiracy theories, which lead to Soros and the Rothschilds and all that anti-Semitic bullshit.

 

I don't doubt that the existence of Israel plays its part, but the issue pre-dates the re-establishment of the Jewish state. That Hobson book that made disparaging remarks about Jewish financiers, which Corbyn got into hot water for writing a foreword to, was written in 1902, for instance.

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Just now, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

I don't doubt that the existence of Israel plays its part, but the issue pre-dates the re-establishment of the Jewish state. That Hobson book that made disparaging remarks about Jewish financiers, which Corbyn got into hot water for writing a foreword to, was written in 1902, for instance.

Hang on, the existence of Israel or the actions of its military? Again, making twisting statements. Very dishonest behaviour. 
 

So someone make remarks about some financiers who all happened to be Jewish. Should he have not made them remarks because they are Jewish? I don’t know exactly what was said but would you be arsed if it was say.... Muslim financiers he said it about? Or Christians? 

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He also said ‘we say Jews are rich and powerful…well actually it’s true. Jewish households are twice as wealthy and are more likely to well in higher education and banking and finance.'

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1 minute ago, Duff Man said:

He also said ‘we say Jews are rich and powerful…well actually it’s true. Jewish households are twice as wealthy and are more likely to well in higher education and banking and finance.'

I don’t get how calling people wealthy is an insult anyway. 

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4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Hang on, the existence of Israel or the actions of its military? Again, making twisting statements. Very dishonest behaviour. 
 

So someone make remarks about some financiers who all happened to be Jewish. Should he have not made them remarks because they are Jewish? I don’t know exactly what was said but would you be arsed if it was say.... Muslim financiers he said it about? Or Christians? 

 

I don't even know where to begin with this.

 

Look, Hobson's book talked about finance being controlled by "men of a single and peculiar race, who have behind them many centuries of financial experience" who "are in a unique position to control the policy of nations". All this shows is that antisemitism on the left is older than 1947.

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9 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I don’t get how calling people wealthy is an insult anyway. 

The problem is that anti-semitic tropes about controlling the world, being lizards, etc, etc exist. It makes it easy to blur the lines between someone saying "George Soros created covid in his shed so that he can make quadrillions with a vaccine that gives you leprosy" and just commenting on factual stuff about educational or financial attainment of different sections of society. The blurring of lines is done by both extremes of the argument. By the conspiracy loons and also by the likes of Mark Regev and Melanie Phillips.

 

The same is done regarding criticism of the actions of the Israeli government. The people that benefit from pretending that being anti-Zionist (or even just anti-Likud or Bibi) and anti-semitic are the same thing are anti semites on the right or left (most of them are obviously on the right) and hard core Zionists who wouldn't lose a minute's sleep if every Palestinian was shot dead tomorrow.

 

Whether conscious or not, and I think it often isn't from the loons (they are loons after all), it prevents anything from changing. Because any nuance or ability to even discuss anything is lost.

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1 minute ago, Jairzinho said:

"George Soros created covid in his shed so that he can make quadrillions with a vaccine that gives you leprosy"

Fucking Jews, man. Pah, whatcha gon' do. 

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A large number of right wing people (and groups) glorify the Nazis from saluting, rhetoric, tattoos to planning actual movements around the whole ideology. Does that make all right wingers Nazi scum? No. 

 

"The left liked Jews when they were poor, marginalised and stateless."

 

...... 

 

I class myself as left wing. I don't want to see anyone poor, marginalised or stateless. That goes for the people of Palestine who are being forced out of their homes/land and into it with violence by a power far greater who use lines like "right to exist" and anti-semitism" to deflect criticism. 

 

The HYPOCRISY is deafening yet almost everyone is too frightened to take about it and those who do get labelled. 

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