Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

2 minutes ago, Numero said:

Are you okay? Surely you can't already have forgot how this conversation started. Have you been on the sauce? 

Just answer my questions. I havent used a fantasy source. You're bonkers! 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Just answer my questions. I havent used a fantasy source. You're bonkers! 

I didn't say you've used a fantasy source, you incoherent twat. I said you made one up. Now, I suggest you go back and read how this started if you want the answer. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

1 minute ago, Numero said:

I didn't say you've used a fantasy source, you incoherent twat. I said you made one up. Now, I suggest you go back and read how this started if you want the answer. 

I haven't made anything up. You won't tell me what I've fabricated. You won't tell me what I've lied about. You're just being very strange. 

 

It's not my comprehension that's the issue. You're just being very vague. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

I haven't made anything up. You won't tell me what I've fabricated. You won't tell me what I've lied about. You're just being very strange. 

 

It's not my comprehension that's the issue. You're just being very vague. 

No, I'm not. I've been specific. I said it very clearly, and it's still there. Here, I'll help you out. 

2 hours ago, Numero said:

No, we won't be leaving it. You made it up, didn't you? You made up a bogus interaction with a bogus source that you can't name just so you could pre-emptively dismiss it? Anyway, I won't be leaving it; I'm going to back what I said, because asking for somebody to back up what they've said is actually a reasonable request. You didn't need to invent a load of bullshit to go with it.

You can click that link and it'll take you back to what you said. The context is all there. You're welcome. Now, feel free to address that and I will then respond to your other things in a very specific way.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

We're going round in circles. I haven't made anything up. And you're still an angry meff who is chatting utter shite so it seems pointless to carry on with this exchange. 

 

I'm still flummoxed about whose words/ideas I allegedly borrowed off Twitter though, or why you're so cock sure and arrogant to say that I definitely read the thoughts of this random, unnamed Twitter person, when Dianne Abbot clearly said about 10 hours ago that the whip withdrawal may be unlawful and that's where I read it. I mean, where do you get off on telling somebody that they didn't read something where they said they did and instead swear blind that they read it somewhere else? Wow. That's crazy stuff and just shows what an arrogant bellend you really are. 

 

p.s. you're on ignore now anyway, so waffle on to your heart's content. 

[sir roger]

1 hour ago, Numero said:

Also, back to the paragon of virtue himself.

 

https://www.channel4.com/

That piece doesn't suggest that there is not an exaggerated view of Labour a/s numbers it just queries the actual figures as far as I can see.

 

Corbyn's figures used show it as about 100 times less ( 34% against 0.3 % )

 

Following the guys logic and stripping out completely the two lots of 'dont knows' and,  lets be generous , doubling the actual anti-semitism cases

( Lets not also forget why Corbyn didnt have the exact figures, with the worst band ever ' Iain and the Whistleblowers ' allegedly ignoring and shredding files ) to 0.6%, my figure comes out at about 25 times less (16% against 0.6 % )

 

Would you suggest that 25 times less does not suggest exaggeration. ?

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, sir roger said:

That piece doesn't suggest that there is not an exaggerated view of Labour a/s numbers it just queries the actual figures as far as I can see.

 

Corbyn's figures used show it as about 100 times less ( 34% against 0.3 % )

 

Following the guys logic and stripping out completely the two lots of 'dont knows' and,  lets be generous , doubling the actual anti-semitism cases

( Lets not also forget why Corbyn didnt have the exact figures, with the worst band ever ' Iain and the Whistleblowers ' allegedly ignoring and shredding files ) to 0.6%, my figure comes out at about 25 times less (16% against 0.6 % )

 

Would you suggest that 25 times less does not suggest exaggeration. ?

So, here's what I think. I think this has nothing to do with the report. I also think that Corbyn was the recipient of political attacks that used antisemitism claims against him in an unfair and untrue way. I said it at the time, many times. I also think it has nothing to do with the report. 

 

I'm literally now just jumping on a Zoom call, but I'll be back tonight or tomorrow morning to respond properly. Sorry. 

[Captain Howdy]

1 hour ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Look up the meaning of unlawful. 

 

You don't have to break a statutory or common law of the land to have acted unlawfully. You can act unlawfully by breaking rules. I didn't once claim he'd acted illegally. 

 

Is this the bit where I put the condescending comments about intellectual rigour and that? 

You don’t have to break the law to to break the law, but he did break the law.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 hours ago, Numero said:

Just one socialist, I think. There are quite a few socialists who feel like being represented by him and Dianne Abbott is a bad thing. We can separate our views on policy and politics from how a person has acted. 

Really?

 

You think that Jeremy Corbyn is the only Socialist suffering as a result of the divisions that are going to keep the murderous and racist Tory kleptocracy in power until 2029 at least?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

I've touched on your lengthy post 

"Oh my, Mr Numero.  Your post is so... so lengthy!  May I... touch on it?"

 

I probably need to go to bed.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Really?

 

You think that Jeremy Corbyn is the only Socialist suffering as a result of the divisions that are going to keep the murderous and racist Tory kleptocracy in power until 2029 at least?

'Rico enjoying socialists...'

 

'Just one socialist, I think'

 

EDIT: To follow on, no I don't think the only socialist to suffer as a result of a murderous kleptocracy would be Corbyn. But I think, at the moment, there's one guy getting slapped down. Not socialists, not left wing politics, one guy. Corbyn isn't the left wing, he isn't socialism. He's just one guy. There's no need for this reaction to him getting the whip removed. I also think the lack of reaction by his supporters to the report and the fuckin' failure to do well, is pretty grim. It's way more about him than it needs to be. I resent being made two feel like I'm less of a left winger than I was prior to Corbyn because I have an issue with that one guy. I hate that. 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

That Rachel Swindon is something else. The Corbyn supporter to end all Corbyn supporters. She’s been stoking up some real hatred, telling her followers how Starmer is in deep trouble now, how they’re all going to have to answer for their actions in a court of law, and then finishing off with a PayPal link because she’s ‘doing this to support her family’. The similarities between her and her ilk and Trump supporters is uncanny. With friends like her, Corbyn doesn’t need enemies. 

[Gnasher]

This unity thing is going well 

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Gnasher said:

This unity thing is going well 

You started it 

[Bobby Hundreds]

 

[Gnasher]

10 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

 

I've just asked Maureen Lipman on Twitter if for the sake of the country her and Jeremy Corbyn can do a cover of this Queen Latifah classic for Christmas. Nelly and Numero to appear as backing singers.

 

 

 

I'll let you all know when I get a reply.

[Scooby Dudek]

Upsetting

Numero

Is

The

Yearning

[Numero Veinticinco]

10 hours ago, sir roger said:

That piece doesn't suggest that there is not an exaggerated view of Labour a/s numbers it just queries the actual figures as far as I can see.

 

Corbyn's figures used show it as about 100 times less ( 34% against 0.3 % )

 

Following the guys logic and stripping out completely the two lots of 'dont knows' and,  lets be generous , doubling the actual anti-semitism cases

( Lets not also forget why Corbyn didnt have the exact figures, with the worst band ever ' Iain and the Whistleblowers ' allegedly ignoring and shredding files ) to 0.6%, my figure comes out at about 25 times less (16% against 0.6 % )

 

Would you suggest that 25 times less does not suggest exaggeration. ?

Okay, so, like I was saying before I was rudely interrupted...

 

Like I said in my previous reply, there is no doubt that some people have thrown all sorts of horrible shit at Jeremy Corbyn. There’s no doubt that some used antisemitism as a stick with which to beat Corbyn, and that’s gross. There was also no doubt that the problem with antisemitism in the Labour Party wasn’t a problem with the entire Labour Party membership. There’s also no doubt that the level of exaggeration in the party membership had fuck all relevance to anything.

 

There’s also no doubt that, for me, when you react to a report with talk of exaggeration, rejection of findings, and denial that you’re part of the problem, then you’re still not getting it. There’s no doubt that if you choose that moment to push back, to skirt apologies, and to reject findings, then you’re still part of the problem. There’s also no doubt that his comments about the scale of the problem had nothing to do with the report and it was a reflexive undermining of the report.  

This report was not random twats making fake claims to land a glove. This report was not a politically motivated smear against Corbyn. It wasn’t Blairites, the right, or the media. It’s an independent report into the response of Labour to complaints received under his leadership, including his own actions and the actions of his office. To react to it as if it was Murdoch media mentalist is absolutely shameful and to defend him over it is shameful. 

 

You know what any sensible person would have done in that scenario, if he really cared about the Labour Party, about Jewish members, and about unity? They would have said they’re profoundly sorry for the findings of the report. Not ‘wasn’t me’ style rebuttals. Corbyn was thinking solely of himself and his own ass; when he had his first interview, and rejected some of the findings, he said he had only just seen the report and needs to read it properly. It’s unbelievable by Corbyn. I understand Corbyn fans having been so used to coming under fire with ridiculous claims that their natural response was to support their guy, but there has been plenty of time now and it’s striking to me that none of his fans on here have condemned his role and the things he’s responsible for from the report. I can only surmise they’ve not read the report properly or don’t understand it’s importance, because the only other reasonable outcome is that they support these things. 

 

He made everything so much worse for himself, mainly because despite the fact he has never really been anything else, he’s just a shitty politician when it comes to playing the political game. This is one major flaw of left wing politicians, the right are just way better at politics than they are. I hate right wing politics, but they’re calculated and ruthless in their pursuit of getting their policies in play. To quote Sorkin, ‘if the left are so fuckin’ smart, how do they lose so god damned always’. 
 

In any case, his supporters keep banging on about this ‘scale of the problem’ line, as if that’s the only reason for his suspension. Labour didn’t give an official reason as far as I can find, but considering the timing, it was probably about the entire reaction. As for removing the whip, I don’t know the laws and bylaws of the Labour Party in enough detail (though I’m sure some on here will pretend to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of them) to to know if Starmer has the right to arbitrarily kick people from the PLP, but I’d be very surprised if he did it from a position of ignorance on the matter. I actually think the reaction to the report probably hasn’t been strong enough. 
 

*shrug*

[Captain Howdy]

53 minutes ago, Numero said:

That Rachel Swindon is something else. The Corbyn supporter to end all Corbyn supporters. She’s been stoking up some real hatred, telling her followers how Starmer is in deep trouble now, how they’re all going to have to answer for their actions in a court of law, and then finishing off with a PayPal link because she’s ‘doing this to support her family’. The similarities between her and her ilk and Trump supporters is uncanny. With friends like her, Corbyn doesn’t need enemies. 

Yep, real nasty piece of work her.

[Bruce Spanner]

For those that don't subscribe to the Politico newsletter.

 

This is where we are currently at.

 

'NO TO CORBO: The Labour war over anti-Semitism remains as fierce as ever this morning after former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn was told he will remain without the whip for three months, pending an investigation into his comments about the EHRC report. Chief Whip Nick Brown wrote to the Islington North MP telling him the decision will be kept under review while the party probes whether he breached the PLP code, and his conduct in the meantime will be taken into account. Jess Elgot in the Guardian has a full write-up.

 

Pen pals: At the same time, 14 left-wing members of Labour’s ruling National Executive Committee wrote to General Secretary David Evans calling for the whip to be restored to Corbyn and taking direct aim at Keir Starmer. “The decision of the leader … to withhold the whip from Jeremy Corbyn MP is an act of deliberate political interference in the handling of a complaint,” the letter reads. Sienna Rodgers at Labour list has the details.

 

More pen pals: Meanwhile, Corbyn had his solicitors write to Labour to prepare the ground for legal action. The BBC’s Iain Watson has a write-up. And local Labour parties are voting on motions on the Corbyn row, which they were specifically told not to do. If this all sounds completely insane, well … it is. Starmer had hoped to close a lid on the anti-Semitism crisis but it continues to engulf the Labour narrative.

 

Going nuclear: Corbyn ally and former party Chair Ian Lavery mooted the possibility of a leadership challenge against Starmer in an interview with HuffPost. Political Editor of the site Paul Waugh wrote in his late-night memo that the issue has become one of trust, after Corbyn thought he had made a deal with Starmer about his reinstatement. “Even though there are still efforts on both sides to find some way out, I understand the former leader is reluctant to take any assurances at face value: if he agreed a new statement, there is real doubt Starmer could guarantee it would lead to a return to the PLP,” Waugh wrote.

 

JUST WHAT WE NEED: Former deputy leader Tom Watson weighed in on the BBC Newscast podcast last night. He said Corbyn should have been “more contrite and accept that whilst he might not have agreed with the scale of the issue, anti-Semitism entered our ranks under his and our leadership and therefore he was in some way responsible for dealing with it.” Watson added: “It would just be a lot easier if there could be more contrition, rather than lawyers’ letters flying around.”'

 

All seems in hand and measured...

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 hours ago, Numero said:

'Rico enjoying socialists...'

 

'Just one socialist, I think'

 

EDIT: To follow on, no I don't think the only socialist to suffer as a result of a murderous kleptocracy would be Corbyn. But I think, at the moment, there's one guy getting slapped down. Not socialists, not left wing politics, one guy. Corbyn isn't the left wing, he isn't socialism. He's just one guy. There's no need for this reaction to him getting the whip removed. I also think the lack of reaction by his supporters to the report and the fuckin' failure to do well, is pretty grim. It's way more about him than it needs to be. I resent being made two feel like I'm less of a left winger than I was prior to Corbyn because I have an issue with that one guy. I hate that. 

 

I took the reference to Rico's perverse glee to mean he was scoffing popcorn watching us on here and the Labour movement throughout the country tearing itself to shreds. I don't think it's just the beasting of Corbyn that he's enjoying. 

 

(As an aside, I've seen plenty of Corbyn supporters saying we need to unite specifically in order to implement the recommendations of the EHRC report.)

[Bruce Spanner]

Interesting the BBC are running with this line of thinking, to which I think there is a germ of truth...

 

‘Anti-Semitism was generally not regarded as a big problem in the Labour Party before Jeremy Corbyn's election as leader in September 2015.

Mr Corbyn and his allies on the left had spent decades campaigning for Palestinian statehood, in contrast with the more nuanced position taken by many of his predecessors.

 

Under his leadership, there was an influx of new members, many of whom were vocal critics of Israel and who believed the UK, along with the US, should be tougher towards Israel, especially regarding its policies towards the Palestinians and its building of settlements in the occupied territories.‘

[Rico1304]

32 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I took the reference to Rico's perverse glee to mean he was scoffing popcorn watching us on here and the Labour movement throughout the country tearing itself to shreds. I don't think it's just the beasting of Corbyn that he's enjoying. 

 

(As an aside, I've seen plenty of Corbyn supporters saying we need to unite specifically in order to implement the recommendations of the EHRC report.)

 Correct.  I remember getting shit for accusing you lot of trying to out lefty each other.  But it’s happening right before my eyes. 

[Gnasher]

24 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

 Correct.  I remember getting shit for accusing you lot of trying to out lefty each other.  But it’s happening right before my eyes. 

It seems a few are trying to out 'righty' each other rather than out lefty each other reading the last few pages.

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

It seems a few are trying to out 'righty' each other rather than out lefty each other reading the last few pages.

Name them.