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Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?


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Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?  

218 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?



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I think if Starmer had not joined the chicken coup and threw Corbyn's original cabinet place back in his face he would have stormed any upcoming party election , but that decision suggests that he would whisk Labour quickly back to the right which would make it difficult for him to win with the present party membership profile. 

 

Can't see any of the older guys being realistically involved like McDonnell or Gardiner ( I like him though, he is on top of his brief  and he takes no shit from Tory presenters ) for instance. No real contenders from the younger male element.

 

Of the female possibilities

 

- Pidcock will hopefully be back at some point but is not now in the frame

 

- Thornberry is not really likeable , will come in for stick about her comment that Labour is a remain party & still has history from her ' White van man with an English flag on his front door ' outburst & not sure another London-centric candidate is wise

 

- Rebecca Long-Bailey has a perfect cv for a Labour leader but has been recently seen as McDonnell's girl & not universally liked by the left-wing. Strong contender though

 

- Angela Rayner will be popular on the left and has a great back-story for achieving against all odds , but might be considered a bit rough and ready and has only been an mp since 2015. Might get the perv vote ( including mine )

 

- Yvette Cooper might be the answer if the question is ' Have you any available extras for the next Lord of the Rings film ? No real chance of success ( disastrous effort in 2015 leadership election and recently had a 35000 strong petition to get rid of her in her own constituency which was 69% leave, ) but the Guardian and Independent will fawn over her in any campaign.

 

- Jess Phillips - Just a horrible person

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He is a decent man but was a terrible leader and made terrible, stupid decisions which have and will cost us all dear.

He should go immediately

My choice would be Keir Starmer... Jess Philips is a lot more popular in the country than she is in the Labour Party so she hasn't got a hope

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Labour lost because of Corbyn. His past dealings with the likes of the IRA, his personality, his leadership qualities, his stance on Brexit and his socialist policies.

 

I'll take one example of the stupidity of his policies, nationalisation. Why the fuck would you waste money to take control of water/electricity etc? Particularly as he could just have introduced a new tax or control on existing companies to increase governments revenue without shelling out billions. Why, for example, claim VAT is a tax on the poor but not pledge to reduce it whilst pissing about buying out energy companies? The answer is socialist dogma, if you control the workforce of a nationalised industry via the unions, you will be able to use it to your advantage to bring down future tory governments. Loads of money wasted in order to benefit socialist labour at the expense of the electorate.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, A Red said:

Labour lost because of Corbyn. His past dealings with the likes of the IRA, his personality, his leadership qualities, his stance on Brexit and his socialist policies.

I'm getting tired of these assertions about why Corbyn lost, as if the person saying them in such a factual way is basing it on anything more than guesses. I think it's because of many different factors across many different people. Pushing your own views and agenda as the reason isn't particularly a reliable way of determining what went wrong. 

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1 minute ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I'm getting tired of these assertions about why Corbyn lost, as if the person saying them in such a factual way is basing it on anything more than guesses. I think it's because of many different factors across many different people. Pushing your own views and agenda as the reason isn't particularly a reliable way of determining what went wrong. 

I should have said, in my opinion. Of course thats all it is.

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10 minutes ago, mattyq said:

He is a decent man but was a terrible leader and made terrible, stupid decisions which have and will cost us all dear.

He should go immediately

My choice would be Keir Starmer... Jess Philips is a lot more popular in the country than she is in the Labour Party so she hasn't got a hope

What terrible, stupid decisions did he make , matty ?

 

the 2 main criticisms seem to be a) Brexit , where I would say his immediate acceptance of the referendum result and not trying to alienate Leavers seems very prescient looking at last night's results and you could argue it was the arch-remainers who fucked us up and bounced us into a referendum offer strategy , and b) anti-Semitism where has actually improved the system for processing complaints more than all of the previous labour leaders put together.

 

I think he needs to go after introducing a leadership contest as a leader needs to own disasters but to blame him totally is a bit one-eyed in my opinion.

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1 minute ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I'm getting tired of these assertions about why Corbyn won lost, as if the person saying them in such a factual way is basing it on anything more than guesses.

 

I don't know, A Red's assertions match what people have been saying on the doorstep. This country isn't going to elect someone like Corbyn. This isn't Venezuela. Despite the rhetoric trying to convince us all that we're on the brink of penury, most people live pretty comfortable lives.

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4 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I'm getting tired of these assertions about why Corbyn lost, as if the person saying them in such a factual way is basing it on anything more than guesses. I think it's because of many different factors across many different people. Pushing your own views and agenda as the reason isn't particularly a reliable way of determining what went wrong. 

You could almost say that is also pushing your own views (and, I guess, an agenda).

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19 minutes ago, mattyq said:

He is a decent man but was a terrible leader and made terrible, stupid decisions which have and will cost us all dear.

He should go immediately

My choice would be Keir Starmer... Jess Philips is a lot more popular in the country than she is in the Labour Party so she hasn't got a hope

 

More fucking FBPE nonsense. I see the Remain jihadists are absolving themselves of all blame.

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Sadly, I think he should go sooner rather than later. Still think he's sound. Still think he's been fairly abysmall treated. 

 

And, I still think that the change of course in the Labour Party that he orchestrated shouldn't be totally abandoned. Despite it not being reflected in last night's election result, there are huge swath of the country still crying out for drastic, revolutionary change. They won't be served by "more of the same" politics. 

 

To a degree, Corbynism should live on. But, the electorate should be given the impression that it's not. It needs a new face, but not a drastically new direction. 

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4 minutes ago, Anubis said:

 

More fucking FBPE nonsense. I see the Remain jihadists are absolving themselves of all blame.

There's plenty of blame to go around after yesterday, mate.

Not quite sure why you're mentioning FBPE etc

The simple fact is that Labour have had the worst night since 1935. This loss was worst than 1983.

Jeremy is responsible for this and should go this fucking instant.

If you want to blame outside agitators, 5th columnists or other mythic enemies that's up to you 

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Lisa Nandy probably has a stronger chance than most even if she wouldn't be my choice. One of the few Labour politicians with Corbyn who weren't completely dismissive of the leave voters and thought a bit about the impact. Although not sure how sincere she really is about leave/remain or in general as she ran Owen Smiths campaign who was much more pro remain. Did she pivot that way because of her seat being heavily leave - nonetheless she took a lot of criticism for her position of being open to voting for a deal and being reluctant about a referendum. 

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49 minutes ago, sir roger said:

What terrible, stupid decisions did he make , matty ?

 

the 2 main criticisms seem to be a) Brexit , where I would say his immediate acceptance of the referendum result and not trying to alienate Leavers seems very prescient looking at last night's results and you could argue it was the arch-remainers who fucked us up and bounced us into a referendum offer strategy , and b) anti-Semitism where has actually improved the system for processing complaints more than all of the previous labour leaders put together.

 

I think he needs to go after introducing a leadership contest as a leader needs to own disasters but to blame him totally is a bit one-eyed in my opinion.

I don't blame Jeremy totally... after last night there's plenty of blame to go around but he is the Leader and as you say, he needs to own the disaster... for the Party's sake more than anything else. A new broom etc.

His Brexit strategy worked in 2017 but, obviously, was a complete failure last night. Negotiate a new deal then have most of the Party campaign against it doesn't make a lot of sense. The Tories own Brexit so if he pivoted to a Leave position he'd lose a lot of his London seats. His problem was that he's a Lexiteer at heart and so he couldn't lead  a Remain coalition and he couldn't get too Brexity as the Party wouldn't stand it and it would have been shades of working with the Tories on the Indy Ref and then getting wiped out for their troubles.

 

Re AS I mostly agree but the problem is that the Public don't really care about Processes and complaints procedures. They wanted him to apologise quickly and to look like he meant it. He's just too stubborn for this sort of thing

 

He should have personalised it a lot more and been so much more aggressive. The Tories are cunts and have wrecked our country for the last 9 years. If you can't go on the offensive with Johnson and his gang of cronies then you shouldn't be in front line politics

 

Both his Brexit policy and all the AS stuff made him appear weak & indecisive which came up a lot on the doorstep, apparently

 

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3 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

If Labour wants to keep the hard left project alive, the tactically astute thing to do would be to throw Corbyn under the bus and blame everything on his personal toxicity rather than his politics. Difficult choices ahead.

Is this what the Lib Dems are going to to with Swinson ?

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1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

If Labour wants to keep the hard left project alive, the tactically astute thing to do would be to throw Corbyn under the bus and blame everything on his personal toxicity rather than his politics. Difficult choices ahead.

You really bring it on yourself SD. I had a serious word with myself a few days ago for giving you down the banks wondering if I should just ignore him and stop getting emotionally invested in calling you out for being a stupid cunt. That line there is pure trolling. Im too exhausted and done with caring about anything at all to get angry but I truly hope you have a really painful shit at some point today. 

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7 minutes ago, Dougie Do'ins said:

Is this what the Lib Dems are going to to with Swinson ?

 

I'm sure she'll carry her share of the "blame" for winning an extra 1.3 million votes as it is, without us having to do anything.

 

6 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

You really bring it on yourself SD. I had a serious word with myself a few days ago for giving you down the banks wondering if I should just ignore him and stop getting emotionally invested in calling you out for being a stupid cunt. That line there is pure trolling. Im too exhausted and done with caring about anything at all to get angry but I truly hope you have a really painful shit at some point today. 

 

It's really, really not trolling at all. Personally I have no interest whatsoever in the survival of The Project, but I'll give clear-headed, objective advice wherever I can, because that's the kind of guy I am. And it's immaterial whether you believe Corbyn was personally toxic or not, I'm only suggesting that it can safely be trotted out as an excuse.

 

Someone or something has to carry the can for Labour's massive defeat, and it might as well be Corbyn rather than his policies, especially if you hope to serve similar policies up to the public in future.

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