Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

They want him gone because he’s not a Corbyn supporter, 

 

1 hour ago, Barry Wom said:

it's obvious it's about who's in the role and not what the role does. It's such a stupid Labour thing to do. How can we make ourselves look as fucking stupid as the Tories. We don't like the democracy of the party, so we'll just remove the role. 

Of course it's about who is in the role, but it's bullshit to pretend this is a purge because he "doesn’t support Corbyn" or that "we don’t like democracy".

 

There are plenty of non-Corbynite MPs who could have filled this role and NOT spent 4 years working against the party.  Seriously  - try to remember five good things that Watson has done that helps the working class, helps Labour and/or hurts the Tories. 

 

As for "democracy" the current party power structures deny the members a vote. It's obvious that if Watson were to submit to a democratic vote, he would be deservedly trounced.  The members want - and the country needs - a Labour leadership team that works together to get the party elected. Watson has proved time and again that he's more of a drain on the party than any use. We should have lanced this boil ages ago.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, viRdjil said:

 

"We can't really have this sectarianism".

Tom Watson 

21 September 2019

With a straight fucking face.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

He's a dickhead. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Barry Wom said:

It's not the point. Both sides are as bad as each other and it needs to stop. The centrists have undermined Corbyn and his team since he was elected, but equally the left has done nothing but attempt to push the centrists out of the party as apparently now the only version of labour that is allowed is a left wing one. 

This is untrue.

 

All the changes "the Left" have been trying to make in the last 4 years are aimed at wresting control away from a centralised party bureaucracy and towards the members.  It's democracy. If half a million members get inspired by any great vision that Watson or Streeting or Benn jr or Kinnock jr may have, then the party would be a Centrist party. 

 

It's not about one faction against another. It's about party decision-making and whether it should be top down or bottom up.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

33 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

My view is that Corbyn should put a stop to this on the agreement that Watson steps down at a more convenient time.  Fucking left can't help but eat itself. We are stupid twats most of the time. 

Agreed.

A more sensible move would be a motion to change the terms of the Deputy Leader role (and maybe the Leader, too) so that it's not left entirely to the PLP to decide when they are up for reelection. 

 

Although I can understand the questioning of whether we need a Deputy Leader since we've survived 4 years without one.

[aRdja]

41 minutes ago, skend04 said:

How Not to Win an Election by Labour. When the Tories sweep to power again at the end of this year we all going to blame Rupert, Laura and Rachel or can we agree that Momentum and Corbyn are just a bit shit at politics? It's conference season, we should be talking policy but Lansmann is too busy on a public purge of the party. 

 

Where's Corbyn? There's a huge chasm right where there should be some leadership. Absolutely scandalous.

Why even pretend that for you it’s about Labour winning the next election? If the deputy leader wasn’t an FBPE centrist twat that you wouldn’t have been so outraged.

[Numero Veinticinco]

It annoys me a little bit that ‘centrist’ is becoming a pejorative term thrown around by some on the left. It’s a step towards a more extreme type of discourse and beliefs that won’t win a damned thing. 

[Rico1304]

They dropped it now.  Damage has been done. 

[aRdja]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/21/tom-watson-plan-to-remove-me-as-deputy-leader-is-drive-by-shooting?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

Labour’s national executive committee will not vote on whether to abolish Tom Watson’s post of deputy leader but will instead carry out a review of the role, following an intervention by Jeremy Corbyn.

 

He’s too decent a man for his own good Jez. 

[Jenson]

I agree it's not the best look especially with the way every media outlet will jump on it, but Watson, Streeting, Phillips et al can all get to fuck as far as I'm concerned.

It's one thing having different ideas or beliefs but it's completely different using your position to continuously undermine what the Labour Party are trying to achieve. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

They dropped it now.  Damage has been done. 

What damage? 

 

[aRdja]

4 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

It annoys me a little bit that ‘centrist’ is becoming a pejorative term thrown around by some on the left. It’s a step towards a more extreme type of discourse and beliefs that won’t win a damned thing. 

What else do you call pro-LGBT rights politicians who don’t want to pay tax?

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

They dropped it now.  Damage has been done. 

What damage? 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

What else do you call pro-LGBT rights politicians who don’t want to pay tax?

Normal? 

 

More seriously, I don’t have somebody who is a centrist being described as a centrist. I have an issue with it being a pejorative, as if being a centrist is some disgusting extreme position like neo-nazi, or hardline gulag loving Commies. 

[aRdja]

A bit disappointed by Corbyn actually.  He should’ve just been more ruthless here.

[Barrington Womble]

52 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

 

Of course it's about who is in the role, but it's bullshit to pretend this is a purge because he "doesn’t support Corbyn" or that "we don’t like democracy".

 

There are plenty of non-Corbynite MPs who could have filled this role and NOT spent 4 years working against the party.  Seriously  - try to remember five good things that Watson has done that helps the working class, helps Labour and/or hurts the Tories. 

 

As for "democracy" the current party power structures deny the members a vote. It's obvious that if Watson were to submit to a democratic vote, he would be deservedly trounced.  The members want - and the country needs - a Labour leadership team that works together to get the party elected. Watson has proved time and again that he's more of a drain on the party than any use. We should have lanced this boil ages ago.

Watson was elected. So you can't claim he's there undemocratically any more than Corbyn. Removing his position is deeply undemocratic. 

 

I don't like how Watson has conducted himself, he's part of the problem and I did day in my original post I think they're as bad as each other. But I do believe the people around Corbyn are 0artnof the problem too. Momentum can be a group for good, but like the erg for the Tories, they expect everyone to fall in line with them or fuck off. It's completely brainless. 

 

As for what Watson has done for the working classes. Well about the same as Corbyn. Fuck all, because labour isn't in government and won't be in government while they keep having these public spats. It's like labour is determined we stay under Tory rule. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

9 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

A bit disappointed by Corbyn actually.  He should’ve just been more ruthless here.

Disagree, mate. I know it seems like I'm doing it on purpose this morning, but honestly it's the right move. There are many more important things going on than having to worry about in-fighting. Whoever's bright idea it was to do it now deserves a kick up the arse, surely. Whether or not Watson is a good guy fighting for the moderate part of the party or a cunt is actually besides the point at the moment because other things are happening that are so important that unity is just about the most powerful weapon they could have. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

10 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

As for what Watson has done for the working classes. Well about the same as Corbyn. Fuck all, because labour isn't in government and won't be in government while they keep having these public spats. It's like labour is determined we stay under Tory rule. 

Yeah, and it's not just them; the left in general seems much more interested in having their perfect vision of a left-wing utopia put forward - even at the cost of losing - than getting rid of a Tory nightmare and having something much closer. The right are just better - much better - at politics than the left. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, skend04 said:

 

Where's Corbyn? There's a huge chasm right where there should be some leadership. Absolutely scandalous.

This aged well.

[aRdja]

8 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Yeah, and it's not just them; the left in general seems much more interested in having their perfect vision of a left-wing utopia put forward - even at the cost of losing - than getting rid of a Tory nightmare and having something much closer. The right are just better - much better - at politics than the left. 

Or just a moderately wing future for the country. I don’t think there’s anyone on the left who thinks that Corbyn is going to deliver the Communist Manifesto. Most of the ideas championed or supported by Corbyn and McDonnell are centre-left.

[skend04]

8 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

This aged well.

So you let your mate run round like a lunatic for a week and then shit yourself when the headlines and backlash are at a peak. Yeah, I'm wrong, it's great leadership. 

[aRdja]

Quelle surprise from the most insufferable wanker on that website.

 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

8 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Or just a moderately wing future for the country. I don’t think there’s anyone on the left who thinks that Corbyn is going to deliver the Communist Manifesto. Most of the ideas championed or supported by Corbyn and McDonnell are centre-left.

I'm not talking about Corbyn or McDonnell, who are both more accurately described as left-wing. I'm saying the left, as an entirety, can't get their act together and want their own version of perfection. Most of us aren't interested in good, they want great, even if it ends on shite. We pull ourselves apart over it and have been doing it for decades. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Quelle surprise from the most insufferable wanker on that website.

 

 

Sounds spot on to me. At least in terms of priority. Not sure if it was launched by Corbyn or not. I guess that is yet to be seen. 

[cloggypop]

They've got more chance of getting on with the rest of it with a greater degree of unity if that deflated balloon shuts the fuck up.