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Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?


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Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?  

218 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?



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3 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

What?  

So if there was an opinion poll, in this hypothetical Remain scenario, that 3 years later showed that 80% of the population now wanted to leave the EU, they'd have to wait another 22 years before any government could table it?

Seems a bit wrong.

I’m not the biggest fan of referendum, but if you decide to hold one, you should respect the people and their votes.

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3 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

That's big of you. 'Oh, you want to avoid a disaster because you now know more than the lies you were told and have changed your mind? TOUGH SHIT. EAT RATS'. 

 

Fuck off. 

I’m not sure why this is riling you NV. Most of the UK voted to leave the EU. I voted for you to remind in the EU, but I respect the result of the votes. I don’t think it’s democratic to disregard the result of the referendum and hold another one asking the same question 3 years down the line. That’s treating the people with contempt. It’s my genuine belief, and I’m not trying to wind anyone up here. 

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Just now, viRdjil said:

The leave campaign did give the voters plenty of warning about what leaving the EU would result in.

Haha. Okay. So the leave campaign said tha...

 

You know what? Okay. I fundamentally disagree with you on this and actually think your view is antidemocratic and the result of being against a democratic choice for the people is not just fucking repugnant but the result of it would punish and even kill a lot of people. So there's no real point in discussing it. 

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1 minute ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Haha. Okay. So the leave campaign said tha...

 

You know what? Okay. I fundamentally disagree with you on this and actually think your view is antidemocratic and the result of being against a democratic choice for the people is not just fucking repugnant but the result of it would punish and even kill a lot of people. So there's no real point in discussing it. 

I respect your views, and won’t tell you to “fuck off”.

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Just now, viRdjil said:

I voted for you to remind in the EU, but I respect the result of the votes. 

What? You voted? 

 

Can you please explain to me how giving people more democracy is antidemocratic? I don't want you to repeat that you think we should respect the results of the referendum. I'm asking how giving more democracy and more choice is less democratic. 

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4 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

What? You voted? 

 

Can you please explain to me how giving people more democracy is antidemocratic? I don't want you to repeat that you think we should respect the results of the referendum. I'm asking how giving more democracy and more choice is less democratic. 

I did of course. All Australian citizens living in the UK could. It’s democratic only of the result is to be respected. We haven’t left the EU. The people voted to leave. You can put it to the people again after you leave the union.

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7 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I don't respect your views and have already told you to fuck off because of it. 

It’s fine, it’s not the MF, so you could abuse me all you want. It just distracts from having a ‘grown-up’ conversation IMO. I’m always open to hearing other views, even (especially) if they’re different to mine.

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Just now, viRdjil said:

I did of course. All Australian citizens living in the UK could. It’s democratic only of the result is to be respected. We haven’t left the EU. The people voted to leave. You can put it to the people again after you leave the union.

Yes, you keep saying what we can do - thanks for that. I would prefer a democratic choice. You've still not explained how giving us more democracy is less democratic. You never will, because it's impossible. The result of the non-binding referendum that was built upon a back of fucking lies and only narrowly passed by a couple of percent, lead to triggering of article 50 and negotiations. We now have a much, much clearer picture of what brexit entails. Can you, for a final time, explain how - now that there's more information available - giving more choice to the electorate, including the ability to leave and self-destruct, is less democratic. How is giving more democratic choice less democratic? 

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Just now, viRdjil said:

It’s fine, it’s not the MF, so you could abuse me all you want. It just distracts from having a ‘grown-up’ conversation IMO. I’m always open to hearing other views, even (especially) if they’re different to mine.

I've never seen you change your view. Not one time. What's the point? Also, there's nothing mature about respecting antidemocratic, potentially very dangerous and destructive views, so I'm not really interested. 

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14 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I've never seen you change your view. Not one time. What's the point? Also, there's nothing mature about respecting antidemocratic, potentially very dangerous and destructive views, so I'm not really interested. 

That’s not true. I voted to remain, but at this point in team I think you should leave the union. If they ask me to vote again, I’d vote remain again. That’s me changing my view twice on the topic of Brexit. 

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12 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Yes, you keep saying what we can do - thanks for that. I would prefer a democratic choice. You've still not explained how giving us more democracy is less democratic. You never will, because it's impossible. The result of the non-binding referendum that was built upon a back of fucking lies and only narrowly passed by a couple of percent, lead to triggering of article 50 and negotiations. We now have a much, much clearer picture of what brexit entails. Can you, for a final time, explain how - now that there's more information available - giving more choice to the electorate, including the ability to leave and self-destruct, is less democratic. How is giving more democratic choice less democratic? 

It’s not democratic if the result is not respected. I’m sure I’ve said that before.

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13 hours ago, Boss said:

I agree with ciggies and petrol because they damage the environment and others in a passive sense. Alcohol doesn't, it's self inflicted, so no there shouldn't be a tax on alcohol.  

You do realise that alcohol is one of the biggest resource drainers of the NHS don’t you? 

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31 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

No I meant the remain campaign, apologies

Aah, good. For a minute then I thought you’d gone mad.

 

The big difference between 2016 and now is that if anyone back then had suggested Brexit would mean leaving without a deal, stifling GDP to the tune of tens of billions - and tens of thousands of jobs - for upwards of 15 years, the end of the Good Friday Agreement and throwing the NHS open to the worst of American corporate vultures, it would have been laughed down as "Project Fear" gone mad. Now we know that all this and more is a very real prospect, the option of sticking with what we've got has to be on the table.

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2 hours ago, viRdjil said:

I’m not sure why this is riling you NV. Most of the UK voted to leave the EU. I voted for you to remind in the EU, but I respect the result of the votes. I don’t think it’s democratic to disregard the result of the referendum and hold another one asking the same question 3 years down the line. That’s treating the people with contempt. It’s my genuine belief, and I’m not trying to wind anyone up here. 

Does it bother you that the campaign to leave broke electoral law, was based on a pack of lies, and will almost certainly lead to hundreds of thousands of people losing their jobs and thousands of people dying?

 

Yeah, but there was a vote just doesn't quite cut it, for me. It's a Daily Mail version of democracy.

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Just now, Jairzinho said:

Does it bother you that the campaign to leave broke electoral law, was based on a pack of lies, and will almost certainly lead to hundreds of thousands of people losing their jobs and thousands of people dying?

 

Yeah, but there was a vote just doesn't quite cut it, for me. It's a Daily Mail version of democracy.

No-deal would be catastrophic I agree, and should be avoided at all costs, but how come something like the EEA agreement hasn’t been seriously explored?

 

it does bother and I think they should be punished for it (heavily fined or jailed).

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2 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

 

it does bother and I think they should be punished for it (heavily fined or jailed).

Not that it will happen, but even if it did it wouldn't actually help anyone though would it?

 

The referendum was a fucking sham. I'm considerably more interested in the outcome than clinging on to an example of pseudo democracy as some kind of great virtue.

 

Do you think your opinion would be the same if Brexit was likely to lead to you losing your job? Or not receiving the medicine that you require to stay alive?

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2 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Not that it will happen, but even if it did it wouldn't actually help anyone though would it?

 

The referendum was a fucking sham. I'm considerably more interested in the outcome than clinging on to an example of pseudo democracy as some kind of great virtue.

 

Do you think your opinion would be the same if Brexit was likely to lead to you losing your job? Or not receiving the medicine that you require to stay alive?

No, if the choice is between no-deal or remain then of course I’d choose remain, but you can’t argue that it’s democratic to do so. I believe the government should focus on trying to get the least damaging deal possible though to avoid the scenario you mentioned above. Something like the EEA where you continue to have free trade but you have less of a say in the decision-making.

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2 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

No, if the choice is between no-deal or remain then of course I’d choose remain, but you can’t argue that it’s democratic to do so. I believe the government should focus on trying to get the least damaging deal possible though to avoid the scenario you mentioned above. Something like the EEA where you continue to have free trade but you have less of a say in the decision-making.

I can argue it's democratic to do so. Because I don't feel the first vote was democratic, as it broke electoral law and was based on lies. 

 

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