Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Section_31]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

No. But I do follow them closely, I've attended a few meetings and I took part in some of their GE 2017 campaigning  (for Centrist MPs, as it happens). So I know that their aims are closer to mine than this fictional "cull" you're talking about. 

Momentum have done some excellent local campaigning which has often put the local Labour CLPs to shame, and not just for their own candidates either. 

 

It's a tough one. I can see why some established MPs and Labour councillors are wary of change, but at the same time there are some really stale Labour politicians doing absolutely fuck all because they know they've got jobs for lives in their areas. So there should he new people and new ideas breaking through.

[mattyq]

I'd like to get rid of Dennis Skinner and the other Tory Brexit supporters

[Red Phoenix]

4 hours ago, Boss said:

It's blatantly obvious to anyone with a clue that the CLP and Momentum are trying to push out the moderate voices in the party to make way for far left socialist MP's.

 

Not trying to argue just confused at your take on this subject. I don't get why you go from "moderate" straight to far left. Can't it just be accepted that there's a good deal of people that are simply left wing? Maybe it's been so long without an actual left wing that it seems far left in comparison.

 

I don't think moderate is the answer at all though, especially if our environment is getting as bad as scientists have been reporting lately. I think they'll be too corporate friendly and it doesn't seem like we're able to put up with that for much longer. Flat out ignorance of this issue and business as usual will cause huge protests and probably riots in the streets soon, people will take the view that the planet is worth more than a bunch of cronies and the consequences of bringing parts of the country to a stand still won't mean anything in comparison. Governments will have to back down or society will start to collapse, nothing but change will be accepted if it looks like there's nothing to lose.

 

Moderate will have to move well to the left, so it's actually moderate again if it's going to stand a chance. Green New Deals and similar proposals are scoffed and laughed at, if the scientists are right though they soon won't be. They'll have to be implemented on some level and quickly or we'll be in serious trouble. Oceans will be fucked, emissions could cause the weather to spiral out of control and sea levels to rise, species will start dying out. So yeah, maybe if moderates move well back into an actual center instead of remaining on the right we'll have a chance.

 

I think just an actual sensible left wing government would be the best option though. It doesn't have to be far left or trying to implement anarchism or communism, just a government that actually gives a shit about priorities instead of lining their pockets for a change.

[moof]

Why would anybody want dianne Abbott deselected? She’s a brilliant mp 

[cloggypop]

8 minutes ago, moof said:

Why would anybody want dianne Abbott deselected? She’s a brilliant mp 

Her constituency seem to love her. 

[Rico1304]

Just now, cloggypop said:

Her constituency seem to love her. 

Which is the most important thing surely.  Not toeing the party line all the time or being a darling of momentum. 

[Denny Crane]

Diane Abbott has faced deselection issues twice. Once in 1994 and then in 2003 for opposing the Iraq war after it was reported she said Blair should resign. 

 

Labour MP Diane Abbott is in the midst of a bitter reselection battle after supporting a call for Tony Blair to resign over the war in Iraq.

Ms Abbott is the first anti-war MP to face deselection calls over her position on Iraq. Pro-war government loyalist Oona King had to fight off an attempt by local activists to deselect her. Martin Linton, another loyalist, is also encountering local opposition to his automatic reselection.

Though it is unlikely that Ms Abbott will have to stand against other candidates in an all-members ballot, her Hackney constituency party's reselection process has revealed sizeable opposition to her - three branch Labour parties and one party affiliate, the Coop party, have voted for her to be forced to seek reselection.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/mar/27/labour.uk

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Boss said:

But presumably you don't want Abbott replaced, even though she's a walking PR disaster. The people being squeezed are all conveniently centrist voices within the party. The goal - is it not - is to have a unified Socialist Party?

I want Dianne Abbott, like every MP, to face mandatory reselection by the full membership of the CLP. (As it happens, she'd walk it, given the way that the voters who know her best returned her with a massive majority. )

 

I've already told you what the goal is.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The party needs a diverse set of centre-left to left-wing voices, from a variety of backgrounds.  Above all, it needs the local members (one member, one vote) to decide who would be the best candidate for their constituency. 

The goal.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

Which is the most important thing surely.  Not toeing the party line all the time or being a darling of momentum. 

Yes.

 

Nobody in Labour is threatening to cull anyone. People who support grass-roots democracy want the CLPs to select their candidates. If Hodge, Mann, Berger, etc.  get selected, good luck to them.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Jennie Formby's response to the latest bit of dishonest whining from the usual suspects. 

 

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/12/excl-formbys-email-to-mps-deals-with-complaints-in-full-but-reminds-them-of-proper-party-procedure/?fbclid=IwAR34Z6HOKggX7RwGVrzGzG1XVdL2cBNHq0wM-Q3ulzHtWlw1PF-2Q-XJc7s

[Boss]

I'm fully aware what the goal is, to replace centrist voices with left wing voices, by democratic means or by foul. Hence what I said.

[Jairzinho]

4 hours ago, Anubis The Jackal said:

Pro socialist MPs will do.

Super extreme hard left loony socialists?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Boss said:

I'm fully aware what the goal is, to replace centrist voices with left wing voices, by democratic means or by foul. Hence what I said.

You can't follow "I'm fully aware of what the goal is" with some shit you've just made up.

 

Why ask questions if you intend to ignore the answers?

[Boss]

Just now, AngryofTuebrook said:

You can't follow "I'm fully aware of what the goal is" with some shit you've just made up.

 

Why ask questions if you intend to ignore the answers?

 

You've been honest by saying that you'd like to see Hodge, Berger and Mann deselected democratically. That's fine, but it's a shifting line, and the line changes every time. What starts as rational, becomes more and more irrational over time. 

 

Ask yourself this question, let's say the CLP and Momentum get their wish, the party is full of left leaning Socialist MP's. What if Corbyn loses? What if the premise on which you've built your castle is flawed?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

You've been honest by saying that you'd like to see Hodge, Berger and Mann deselected democratically. That's fine, but it's a shifting line, and the line changes every time. What starts as rational, becomes more and more irrational over time. 

 

Ask yourself this question, let's say the CLP and Momentum get their wish, the party is full of left leaning Socialist MP's. What if Corbyn loses? What if the premise on which you've built your castle is flawed?

When pressed, I said I'm not a lover of three MPs who consistently work against the party.  I don't live in any of their constituencies; for all I know, they may do great work locally and be very popular as a result.  That's why the selection decision is best left to the local membership.  It's called "democracy". No changing lines; it's perfectly rational.

 

I'll answer myself this question; if Momentum and the CLPs get their wish, the party will be what it's supposed to be  - a broad church of the centre-left and Socialists, in which the diversity of the membership is reflected in the PLP.

 

Your premise that Momentum  (or whoever) want to cull MPs who lack ideological purity is more than flawed: it's bollocks. 

[Creator Supreme]

2 hours ago, mattyq said:

I'd like to get rid of Dennis Skinner and the other Tory Brexit supporters

Dennis is a legend, a fucking brilliant MP, and has been consistently anti-EU his whole parliamentary career. I disagree with him on that, but if anybody is entitled to that opinion he is!

[Boss]

2 hours ago, moof said:

Why would anybody want dianne Abbott deselected? She’s a brilliant mp 

And there you have it. The patients are running the asylum.

[Red Phoenix]

2 hours ago, Boss said:

And there you have it. The patients are running the asylum.

 

[Denny Crane]

Not sure where to put this but worth a read. 

 

 

 

As part of the pitch document, named “Project Ball”, Crosby said CTF Partners could set up full-time war rooms around the world to spread negative stories about Qatar in the mainstream media, run fake grassroots campaigns on social media, and lobby potentially friendly politicians, journalists and academics. 

 

In the document Crosby lays out a proposal to coalesce global criticism of Qatar into a single narrative and “expose and undermine the actions of the current regime” in Doha, including linking the state’s activities to terrorism in the minds of the public

[AngryOfTuebrook]

7 hours ago, Boss said:

And there you have it. The patients are running the asylum.

Because she twice (I think) gave interviews in which she hadn't rote-learned some figures?

 

In Hackney North & Stoke Newington - where the voters presumably know her better than any other voters in the country - she was returned by 75% of the electorate; an increased majority of 35,000.

 

You're not a fan of democracy, are you?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

One of the speakers at a launch event for Turning Point UK reckons Hitler would have been fine if he'd stayed in Germany.

 

https://forward.com/fast-forward/419053/candace-owens-turning-point-usa-hitler-germany/

 

Media hysteria about Tory anti-Semitism incoming in 10...9...8...   ...  ...  ...

[Denny Crane]

28 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

One of the speakers at a launch event for Turning Point UK reckons Hitler would have been fine if he'd stayed in Germany.

 

https://forward.com/fast-forward/419053/candace-owens-turning-point-usa-hitler-germany/

 

Media hysteria about Tory anti-Semitism incoming in 10...9...8...   ...  ...  ...

 

At the same time they said this. 

 

[Jose Jones]

8 hours ago, Boss said:

And there you have it. The patients are running the asylum.

Spot on. @moof has been using his socialist mind powers to control all the Labour Party members.

Again.

[The Guest]

16 hours ago, Boss said:

 

It's blatantly obvious to anyone with a clue that the CLP and Momentum are trying to push out the moderate voices in the party to make way for far left socialist MP's. The no confidence vote proves it. They were trying to pull a fast one, and it caused such a stink they had to climb down. 

Stop reading the daily mail.  The “Moderate voices” are actually rightwing voices.  The “far left” are just left wing and probably more moderate left when you look at the policies.  They basically just want to roll back the right wing economic decisions that have been made in recent years like dropout corporation tax to the laughable low it’s going to become and get rid of the disgusting level of tuition fees which are going to bankrupt the country in the long run.  Far left would be introducing a top rate of tax of 90%, renationalising every industry possible, making child care free etc which isn’t happening.