Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Denny Crane]

Just now, Strontium Dog said:

 

Get fucked. We're talking about something that came out THIS WEEK.

 

I thought you would appreciate me posting the evidence for you. At this rate we will need a factchecker for the shite you and ricoh post.  Simple Labour numerous times defending the rights of EU citizens here, incumbent government saying no.

 

Now if you were being honest and not playing at being a boring splitter you might conclude that Labour can't just override the government. We are where we are on EU citizens rights because this incumbent government have pursued this path. 

 

 

[Section_31]

53 minutes ago, rico1304 said:

I want him to be vocal about how shit Brexit will be for his target voters, that it’s a disaster and then to offer a credible opposition.  Stop voting with the government on Brexit and offer the electorate a way out and guaranteeing a second referendum.  Then I and millions of others could vote for him if the opportunity arises.  

You realise the last sentence shows you how pointless this all is though don't you?

 

I'd vote for the blow jobs party but they don't exist.

 

You deal with the political realities you're faced with not the ones you want. Corbyn bemoaning Brexit would achieve approximately nothing you personally want- it would not lead to a second referendum or stop Brexit.

 

What it would do is strengthen May's hand and unify the right.

 

This shit's chess it ain't chequers (sic).

[Rico1304]

5 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

You realise the last sentence shows you how pointless this all is though don't you?

 

I'd vote for the blow jobs party but they don't exist.

 

You deal with the political realities you're faced with not the ones you want. Corbyn bemoaning Brexit would achieve approximately nothing you personally want- it would not lead to a second referendum or stop Brexit.

 

What it would do is strengthen May's hand and unify the right.

 

This shit's chess it ain't chequers (sic).

Ha ha 8d chess.  Bollocks 

[cloggypop]

It's more Kerplunk than chess. 

[Section_31]

6 minutes ago, rico1304 said:

Ha ha 8d chess.  Bollocks 

Why is it bollocks? Talk me through the stages of parliament that would result in Brexit being scrapped once Corbyn goes on the Andrew Marr show and says there should be a 'people's vote'.

 

Put some facts where your mouth is I dare you.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Just reading about one of the ferry companies who won the government contract to run increased ferry services between Ramsgate and Ostende, in the event of no deal. 

 

They don't own any ferries, were only formed in 2015 and are yet to run any sort of ferry service yet, in their short period of existence. 

 

Questions need to be asked about why Corbyn allowed this contract to be entered into!!!... 

[SasaS]

Why does almost everybody in the UK think there will be an extension if the UK wants or needs an extension, you can renegotiate ad infinitum what you said you've already negotiated, you can hold other referendums / referenda on the same thing or have general election in some unspecified time in the future, and then go back to the process as if no time has passed?  

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Isn't the default positon a no deal Brexit?

Not necessarily.  The UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50 at any time.  There's also the option of agreeing an extension to the leaving date.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

THERE'S NO SUCH FUCKING THING.

 

I know.  I also know that voting for Brexit is a really bad idea; that didn't stop 17 million people from doing it.

 

Fun fact: most of those people are still alive and still eligible to vote.

[Barrington Womble]

9 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Why does almost everybody in the UK think there will be an extension if the UK wants or needs an extension, you can renegotiate ad infinitum what you said you've already negotiated, you can hold other referendums / referenda on the same thing or have general election in some unspecified time in the future, and then go back to the process as if no time has passed?  

 

 

Because Europe want no deal almost as little as we do. No deal won't be allowed by either side because it's fucking stupid. If May fails to get her deal (which she will fail), an extension will be the only choice because she's already run down the clock and there's no time to strike a deal thay she might get through parliament. 

[SasaS]

13 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

Because Europe want no deal almost as little as we do. No deal won't be allowed by either side because it's fucking stupid. If May fails to get her deal (which she will fail), an extension will be the only choice because she's already run down the clock and there's no time to strike a deal thay she might get through parliament. 

I think you may be underestimating EU's desire to get it over with in the face of a total political stalemate in the UK over how to leave.

[Barrington Womble]

Just now, SasaS said:

I think you may be underestimating EU's desire to get it over with in the face of a total political stalemate in the UK over how to leave.

The EU isn't about to shoot themselves in the foot financially because they can't be arsed to negotiate a bit more. They're not stupid and they're not tories. 

[polymerpunkah]

So the negotiations are now between Parliament and the EU, with May acting as the arbitrator, shuttling between the two?

[Section_31]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

Why is it bollocks? Talk me through the stages of parliament that would result in Brexit being scrapped once Corbyn goes on the Andrew Marr show and says there should be a 'people's vote'.

 

Put some facts where your mouth is I dare you.

 

Hello?

[Barrington Womble]

57 minutes ago, polymerpunkah said:

So the negotiations are now between Parliament and the EU, with May acting as the arbitrator, shuttling between the two?

There aren't any negotiations at the moment are there? I don't see may going back to Europe till she's lost the meaningful vote, unless Europe tell her they have figured a way around the backstop, which seems very unlikely. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 hours ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

They have to appear to be an opposition,  without actually opposing anything in any meaningful way. Witness the utter silence at the most shameful, disgraceful thing a British government has done in years (the sinister implicit threat to deport people who have lived here for years if they don't apply to stay). Labour supporters should be disgusted. Actually,  many are, but the Corbyn cultists make a lot more noise here.

A real opposition would be calling for a recall of Parliament to vote this shit down.

 

Oh, wait...

[polymerpunkah]

1 hour ago, Barry Wom said:

There aren't any negotiations at the moment are there? I don't see may going back to Europe till she's lost the meaningful vote, unless Europe tell her they have figured a way around the backstop, which seems very unlikely. 

If there aren't currently negotiating some way to get Parliament onside, then the Conservatives are even more incompetent than they look.

 

[Jose Jones]

7 hours ago, rico1304 said:

I want him to be vocal about how shit Brexit will be for his target voters, that it’s a disaster and then to offer a credible opposition.  Stop voting with the government on Brexit and offer the electorate a way out and guaranteeing a second referendum.  Then I and millions of others could vote for him if the opportunity arises.  

Such a fucking lie.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 hours ago, rico1304 said:

I want him to be vocal about how shit Brexit will be for his target voters, that it’s a disaster and then to offer a credible opposition.  Stop voting with the government on Brexit and offer the electorate a way out and guaranteeing a second referendum.  Then I and millions of others could vote for him if the opportunity arises.  

You want him to talk like a Lib Dem on this?

 

How do you think that would pan out electorally? Who do you think would benefit from that?

[Denny Crane]

12 hours ago, rico1304 said:

  Stop voting with the government on Brexit

Ok we need a fact check for this statement. This reads like Labour constantly vote with the government on Brexit.

 

Since the majority of parliament did the only democratic thing at that time and triggered article 50 how many times have Labour voted with the government on Brexit. 

 

Between Feb 2017 and July 2018 there were 83 votes on Brexit. Labour voted with the government zero times in that period. Probably closer to 100 now since that clip is a bit out of date but you get the gist. See below link. 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/EL4JC/status/1014175560501776384

.  

[TheBitch]

24 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

Ok we need a fact check for this statement. This reads like Labour constantly vote with the government on Brexit.

 

Since the majority of parliament did the only democratic thing at that time and triggered article 50 how many times have Labour voted with the government on Brexit. 

 

Between Feb 2017 and July 2018 there were 83 votes on Brexit. Labour voted with the government zero times in that period. Probably closer to 100 now since that clip is a bit out of date but you get the gist. See below link. 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/EL4JC/status/1014175560501776384

.  

People are bored of facts, mate. 

 

Facts and experts. Nobody needs them any more. 

[Rico1304]

40 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

Ok we need a fact check for this statement. This reads like Labour constantly vote with the government on Brexit.

 

Since the majority of parliament did the only democratic thing at that time and triggered article 50 how many times have Labour voted with the government on Brexit. 

 

Between Feb 2017 and July 2018 there were 83 votes on Brexit. Labour voted with the government zero times in that period. Probably closer to 100 now since that clip is a bit out of date but you get the gist. See below link. 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/EL4JC/status/1014175560501776384

.  

Abstaining is fucking wank, and Labour had a chance to actually defeat the government but didn’t.  I believe Corbyn didn’t turn up, claimed he wasn’t paired but then retracted that claim when it was proved to be untrue.  

[Numero Veinticinco]

Voted against 72

Abstained 11

Voted with 0

 

Rico says that is voting with the government. Little point listening to a guy like that. You’ll never change his mind, nor do you have anything to learn. 

[Rico1304]

And it’s also disingenuous to say Corbyn can’t come out against Brexit for fear of losing votes but then claim to be against Brexit because of voting patterns.  

[Section_31]

9 minutes ago, rico1304 said:

And it’s also disingenuous to say Corbyn can’t come out against Brexit for fear of losing votes but then claim to be against Brexit because of voting patterns.  

The important fact you keep deliberately ignoring is the main reaon he hasn't come out against Brexit is because it wouldn't make ANY difference.