Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Barrington Womble]

Just now, AngryofTuebrook said:

The Tories won't have another referendum; Labour have explicitly included another referendum as an option, when they are in Government. 

Labour won't be in government before we leave. 

[Plev]

1 minute ago, Barry Wom said:

Not thay I agree with it, but I don't think stopping brexit has ever been on the agenda for the Labour Party  

Don’t disagree with you, I just wish they’d be honest about it. 

[Barrington Womble]

Just now, Plev said:

Don’t disagree with you, I just wish they’d be honest about it. 

I think they are. It's pretty clear to me the Labour agenda for brexit is not much different to that of large parts of the cabinet. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog said:

Yeah, but it's motivated people to do a bit of digging into Corbyn's outriders. In the last few days "lifelong Labour voter" Rachel Swindon has been exposed as a Green Party supporter in 2015, and Aaron Bastani has been revealed as a pusher of Soros/Rothschild conspiracy theories.

 

Meanwhile Corbyn had to delete his praise for a tramp when it turned out said tramp was a rapist. Oops.

Aren't you the first to start whining when anyone round here plays the ball rather than the man? You're the world's worst.

 

I'd call myself a lifelong Labour voter - even though, when the Labour Party leadership abandoned Labour principles in the 90s, I would be more likely to vote for whichever Green or Socialist most closely represented those principles.  So what? Does that make me a fraud, too? Are you also one of those weirdos who was hounding Rachel Swindon and claiming that she was really a man?

 

And then you pair that with the usual "we've got nothing of substance on Corbyn, so we'll try a bit of guilt-by-association". Classy. Nice use of the word "tramp" too, you illiberal cunt.

 

Any chance you could try to answer the question: how do you propose to stop Brexit with a Tory Government?

[Strontium]

5 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Aren't you the first to start whining when anyone round here plays the ball rather than the man? You're the world's worst.

 

I think it's important to establish when we're dealing with liars and antisemites. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 minutes ago, Plev said:

Don’t disagree with you, I just wish they’d be honest about it. 

If they come down unequivocally for or against Brexit, they will lose the next General Election, leaving us with a Tory Government, with the racist neoliberal hardliners calling all the shots, for the foreseeable future. 

 

The more nuanced approach agreed at Conference, infuriating as it seems, is still the best hope for a future that's not completely shit - at least, I've not seen anyone come up with a better plan.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

I think it's important to establish when we're dealing with liars and antisemites. 

You're funny.

You're a funny guy.

[moof]

21 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

I think they are. It's pretty clear to me the Labour agenda for brexit is not much different to that of large parts of the cabinet. 

Such bullshit. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

26 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

I think they are. It's pretty clear to me the Labour agenda for brexit is not much different to that of large parts of the cabinet. 

 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

34 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

I think they are. It's pretty clear to me the Labour agenda for brexit is not much different to that of large parts of the cabinet. 

So why not just vote with the PM? 

[Barrington Womble]

22 minutes ago, moof said:

Such bullshit. 

In what way? I am sure corbyn would work towards a noway type solution as would large parts of the cabinet. 

[Strontium]

6 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

So why not just vote with the PM? 

 

They have to appear to be an opposition,  without actually opposing anything in any meaningful way. Witness the utter silence at the most shameful, disgraceful thing a British government has done in years (the sinister implicit threat to deport people who have lived here for years if they don't apply to stay). Labour supporters should be disgusted. Actually,  many are, but the Corbyn cultists make a lot more noise here.

[Barrington Womble]

16 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

 

 

As per my post to moof, I don't think corbyn and the remainers within the cabinet are very far apart on what brexit they would like. And what is certain, corbyn wants brexit and brexit is labour's position. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Mixed emotions about Corbyn allegedly being "upset." 

 

On the one hand, if you've got an issue with Palestinian children being blown to pieces by sociopathic war criminals and your willingness to stand up for these people gets twisted by poisonous apartheid apologists into weaponised, tactical antisemitism claims, I can understand that such a pathetic, malicious and underhand tactic might cause upset. 

 

But, on the other hand, Corbyn should expect such treatment both as leader of the opposition and a vocal critic of Israeli war crimes and fight fire with fire. Save all the faux, weepy "oh, woe is me" play acting for the likes of Margaret Hodge. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Barry Wom said:

As per my post to moof, I don't think corbyn and the remainers within the cabinet are very far apart on what brexit they would like. And what is certain, corbyn wants brexit and brexit is labour's position. 

Labour's position is "a Brexit that meets the six tests". The Tories don't want that: they just want whatever gets more money and power for them and their mates.

 

The Tories are squandering money preparing for a No-Deal Brexit. Labour wouldn't even countenance that; if we can't get an agreement before an arbitrarily imposed deadline, then we extend the deadline. 

 

May's deal doesn’t meet Labour’s 6 tests. (Such a Brexit probably isn’t even possible.) Labour’s policy is to try to negotiate that, try to get it through Parliament and - if required  - to go for another referendum. That's the best chance of stopping Brexit altogether. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

I think the best chance of stopping Brexit is when May’s Brexit gets rejected. They, surely to God, must have a second referendum. A N Brexit vs No Deal. 

[Barrington Womble]

12 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Labour's position is "a Brexit that meets the six tests". The Tories don't want that: they just want whatever gets more money and power for them and their mates.

 

The Tories are squandering money preparing for a No-Deal Brexit. Labour wouldn't even countenance that; if we can't get an agreement before an arbitrarily imposed deadline, then we extend the deadline. 

 

May's deal doesn’t meet Labour’s 6 tests. (Such a Brexit probably isn’t even possible.) Labour’s policy is to try to negotiate that, try to get it through Parliament and - if required  - to go for another referendum. That's the best chance of stopping Brexit altogether. 

I deliberately said corbyn and labour's position was that of large parts of the cabinet and not the Conservative position. I'm aware corbyn and Labour do not share the same position as May's official government stance, most of the tory party do not support that position either, which is why there wasn't a meaningful vote.

 

However, if you look at the 6 tests, it leads to the conclusion of a norway like solution, which according to the press before Christmas was a position of many of the cabinet. My personal opinion is we will take an extension to leaving the EU. Get a Norway like deal that the labour party will support. We will not get a labour government within the period of the current term and if the Norway like solution is liked by the public and tory press, I think it will lead to another tory government after that. 

[Section_31]

4 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I think the best chance of stopping Brexit is when May’s Brexit gets rejected. They, surely to God, must have a second referendum. A N Brexit vs No Deal. 

Isn't the default positon a no deal Brexit?

[Rico1304]

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Isn't the default positon a no deal Brexit?

I guess we will either see a referendum or a vote of no confidence in government, meaning we need a delay. 

[Section_31]

Rico genuine question, what do you want Corbyn to do AND what do you realistically expect it to achieve? Please explain.

[Strontium]

25 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Labour's position is "a Brexit that meets the six tests".

 

THERE'S NO SUCH FUCKING THING.

 

It's about as honest as promising every household in Britain a unicorn that shits ten pounds notes.

[Rico1304]

I want him to be vocal about how shit Brexit will be for his target voters, that it’s a disaster and then to offer a credible opposition.  Stop voting with the government on Brexit and offer the electorate a way out and guaranteeing a second referendum.  Then I and millions of others could vote for him if the opportunity arises.  

[Denny Crane]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog said:

 

They have to appear to be an opposition,  without actually opposing anything in any meaningful way. Witness the utter silence at the most shameful, disgraceful thing a British government has done in years (the sinister implicit threat to deport people who have lived here for years if they don't apply to stay). Labour supporters should be disgusted. Actually,  many are, but the Corbyn cultists make a lot more noise here.

 

This is extremely dishonest it's laughable. To clarify Labour tabled an amendment in Feb 2017 guaranteeing the rights of EU citizens. It was voted down and those people's vote champions like Soubry and Jo Johnson who get lauded by the FBPE mob were among those who voted it down. It then went to the Lord's, Corbyn gives numerous speeches defending EU citizens rights in 2017 and Labour put it in their manifesto see Cloggypops post. Parliament is presently closed and Labour have requested they return early. Not that any of this is fresh news. 

 

 

MPs have voted against guaranteeing the rights of EU citizens in the UK before Theresa May triggers Article 50.

By 332 votes to 290, a majority of 42, MPs voted down an amendment to the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill, which was brought by Labour’s Harriet Harman.

 

 

It would have ensured that all EU citizens legally living in the UK on June 23 - the date of the EU referendum - would have their right to stay protected

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bill-full-list-mps-voted-against-guaranteeing-eu-citizens-rights-article-50-a7570421.html

Lord's.

 

The Conservative government is likely to be defeated in the House of Lords over the issue of securing the rights of EU citizens living in the UK, despite a last minute plea from the home secretary, Amber Rudd.

Peers are lining up to support a Labour party amendment – which now has the formal backing of a Conservative, a Liberal Democrat and a crossbencher – calling on ministers to bring forward proposals to protect Europeans resident in Britain within three months of article 50 being triggered.

 

 

Then rejected 

 

Peers accept MPs’ decision to reject amendments aimed at guaranteeing rights of EU citizens and meaningful vote on final Brexit bill

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/13/brexit-vote-article-50-eu-citizens-rights-lords-mps

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/28/theresa-may-faces-defeat-in-lords-over-rights-of-eu-citizens

 

[Strontium]

17 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

 

This is extremely dishonest it's laughable. To clarify Labour tabled an amendment in Feb 2017 guaranteeing the rights of EU citizens.

 

Get fucked. We're talking about something that came out THIS WEEK.