Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Numero Veinticinco]

Haha, fair point.

[Jairzinho]

The problem with getting rid of armies and nukes and even Corbyn's attitude to conflict in general is that, while admirable, it presumes everyone else in the world is as nice as you.

 

Now if you could take Russia and China out of the world I'd be happy with disarmament, but if anything the Russians have shown since the Obama era that it you show any weakness at all they'll capitalise.

 

The flying near our airspace, the sailing the Admiral Cornetto down the North Sea etc is all done to see what they can get away with.

 

They reckon the reason the Cuban missile crisis was diffused when it was was because Khrushchev became convinced the yanks were prepared to destroy the planet rather than back down.

 

It's a game of cards, the whole things is, and Europe especially has folded too many times in the last few decades when it's come to conflict and bullying on its doorstep.

 

The problem isn't just how nice other countries are, it's how nice we are. We're a cunt country. And therefore in the short/mid term there probably would be a decent chance of Russia bumming us. Because they're also a cunt country.

 

Uruguay aren't shitting it about being nuked because they're not antagonising Russia, playing monopoly with the Middle East, or using their media to paint Russia as the big bad wolf. 

 

We're a cunt country, and have been for a long, long time. And it seems post Brexit we're going to turn it up to 11.

[cloggypop]

Yup

[cloggypop]

The Netherlands had a thing a while back where they tried to arrest a Russian bloke for smacking his kids. Ended up with the Dutch diplomat getting broken into and the shit getting kicked out of him.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The problem with getting rid of armies and nukes and even Corbyn's attitude to conflict in general is that, while admirable, it presumes everyone else in the world is as nice as you.

It's utter bollocks to pretend that Corbyn's attitude to conflict is premised on everyone else being nice.

[cloggypop]

.

[Section_31]

It's utter bollocks to pretend that Corbyn's attitude to conflict is premised on everyone else being nice.

I never said it did. Why is abrasiveness ALWAYS your opening gambit with threads like this? I used to like debating with you back in the day but whenever I see you've posted these days I assume you've just waded in with your size nines, which you usually have.

[Section_31]

The problem isn't just how nice other countries are, it's how nice we are. We're a cunt country. And therefore in the short/mid term there probably would be a decent chance of Russia bumming us. Because they're also a cunt country.

 

Uruguay aren't shitting it about being nuked because they're not antagonising Russia, playing monopoly with the Middle East, or using their media to paint Russia as the big bad wolf.

 

We're a cunt country, and have been for a long, long time. And it seems post Brexit we're going to turn it up to 11.

I don't disagree with any of that I'm talking about Corbyn being a nice bloke. As long as there are cunts in the world it is - to paraphrase Darth Vader - unwise to lower your defences.

[Gym Beglin]

I think Corbyn committed political suicide this week, but he did the right thing, which is a damning indictment of politics.

[Numero Veinticinco]

If you think the UK is a cunt country, your perspective is skewed to the point of silliness.

[Gym Beglin]

The problem with getting rid of armies and nukes and even Corbyn's attitude to conflict in general is that, while admirable, it presumes everyone else in the world is as nice as you.

 

Now if you could take Russia and China out of the world I'd be happy with disarmament, but if anything the Russians have shown since the Obama era that it you show any weakness at all they'll capitalise.

 

The flying near our airspace, the sailing the Admiral Cornetto down the North Sea etc is all done to see what they can get away with.

 

They reckon the reason the Cuban missile crisis was diffused when it was was because Khrushchev became convinced the yanks were prepared to destroy the planet rather than back down.

 

It's a game of cards, the whole things is, and Europe especially has folded too many times in the last few decades when it's come to conflict and bullying on its doorstep.

I think you underestimate the morality of the majority of Russian people. Sure, Putin could lead a takeover of Europe, but if everyone else disarmed then he’d need to persuade his people that their cause was just. I think that Russia would pull itself apart.

 

America are a bigger threat than Russia. They use Russia as a smoke shield for CIA bullshit, and then refuse to sign agreements banning weapons from space. How is Russia expected to react?

 

Disarmament isn’t the answer, you have to take away the incentive to fight, and that’s all based on natural resources diminishing. We should pile our money into becoming 100% based on renewable energy within 15 years, and when that process is complete we could disarm and never worry about war again.

[Anubis]

If you think the UK is a cunt country, your perspective is skewed to the point of silliness.

Nah NV. I think if you ask around the world I don't think we're viewed with any particular fondness.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Nah NV. I think if you ask around the world I don't think we're viewed with any particular fondness.

Although I would disagree with that point, I'm not sure it's the same thing as being a cunt country. Nobody is worried about Russia nuking us, and the governments aren't going to start a war with Russia. For some reason, it seems taken as a given by those in a rush to prove how left-wing they are - like Jairzinho always has, it's practically his only political view - that we are attempting to start a war with Russia. It's utterly bollocks and devoid of all common sense. We are annoyed that it looks likely the Russians have used Chemical Weapons in the UK. What a bunch of cunts we are for not being happy about that. It's increasingly obvious to me why those on the right, centre right, centre, and even centre left, dislike us on the 'real' left so much, especially when most have because cardboard cutout, unthinking drones. It's a bit frustrating if I'm honest.

[Jairzinho]

Well, feel free to put me on ignore, you tedious patronising cunt.

[Numero Veinticinco]

I do feel free to do what I want, I certainly don't need your permission you blinkered prick.

[Rico1304]

Although I would disagree with that point, I'm not sure it's the same thing as being a cunt country. Nobody is worried about Russia nuking us, and the governments aren't going to start a war with Russia. For some reason, it seems taken as a given by those in a rush to prove how left-wing they are - like Jairzinho always has, it's practically his only political view - that we are attempting to start a war with Russia. It's utterly bollocks and devoid of all common sense. We are annoyed that it looks likely the Russians have used Chemical Weapons in the UK. What a bunch of cunts we are for not being happy about that. It's increasingly obvious to me why those on the right, centre right, centre, and even centre left, dislike us on the 'real' left so much, especially when most have because cardboard cutout, unthinking drones. It's a bit frustrating if I'm honest.

The ‘out leftying’ is my favourite thing on here.

[Numero Veinticinco]

The ‘out leftying’ is my favourite thing on here.

No it's not, it's my favourite thing on here! Etc, etc.

 

It's like they've listened to a Galloway podcast and decided the best thing you can be is as far left as you can go. The more left you are, the better you are, the the more credible you become. It's just ridiculous. I say that as a life long lefty. If that makes me patronising, so be it; it's fucking hard not to be patronising on here at times, such is the height of the bar one must pass under.

[BatChainPuller]

I think Corbyn committed political suicide this week, but he did the right thing, which is a damning indictment of politics.

Definitely did the right thing, as he usually has in these situations. He has consistently bucked ‘conventional wisdom’ and it hasn’t done him any harm - authenticity is far more important than jumping on whatever the current jingoistic bandwagon happens to be. His principled line on shoot-to-kill during after the London attacks during the election didn’t affect the party’s support despite all the baying from tabloids at the time.

 

Still a novelty to see a party leader who doesn’t automatically fall into line and mouth pious platitudes on foreign policy - that’s what has re-engaged so many of us in politics.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Definitely did the right thing, as he usually has in these situations. He has consistently bucked ‘conventional wisdom’ and it hasn’t done him any harm - authenticity is far more important than jumping on whatever the current jingoistic bandwagon happens to be. His principled line on shoot-to-kill during after the London attacks during the election didn’t affect the party’s support despite all the baying from tabloids at the time.

 

Still a novelty to see a party leader who doesn’t automatically fall into line and mouth pious platitudes on foreign policy - that’s what has re-engaged so many of us in politics.

Let's hope that it stays that way, because he needs to win the next election. I can't be doing with another government of these Tory twats.

[skend04]

I'm surprised no one has interviewed those plants from the Election debates. The ones who were all for pressing the nuke button first. What do they feel about a nerve agent attack on UK soil and what's their opinion on us not having launched any nukes at the Kremlin? I'd really like to know.

[BatChainPuller]

Let's hope that it stays that way, because he needs to win the next election. I can't be doing with another government of these Tory twats.

Yes I can't remember a time when things were so bad for so many people. I thought we could never sink lower than the Thatcher era but this lot have passed that and still falling. Labour's main asset under Corbyn is the massed membership - boots on the ground to help get your voters out is what makes the difference. The Tory party machine is pretty decrepit nowadays.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I dont think Labour would win the next election.

[Kevin D]

I dont think Labour would win the next election.

Stop moaning and get behind the lads.

[Numero Veinticinco]

I dont think Labour would win the next election.

That... is probably true.

[Anny Road]

Keir Starmer comes across well. I confess I don’t know much about his politics but he is certainly well presented and an excellent communicator.

Him as the public face with JC’s policies would be great.