Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[cloggypop]

Labour courting votes by telling new members to f*ck off

 

 August 12, 2016

 

 Written by Lucas Wilde

 

The Labour party reckons the first step to a successful election is to tell a good proportion of their own party to sod right off.

 

The declaration comes after the party successfully overturned a ruling which allowed members of the party to vote in the party’s election without paying £25 (or two London pints) for the privilege.

 

“Go on, fuck off,” beamed party spokesperson, Simon Williams.

 

“None of you matter because you’re new. But don’t forget to vote for us come election-time, we are your party, at least in that context.

 

“But for now, sling your hook, and take your Jeremy Corbyn posters with you. Maybe you can have a whale of a time recycling them like the pack of bubble-wrapped hippies you so obviously are.”

 

“Once again, please don’t forget to vote for us in the election when it comes up.

 

“We really are so much better than the Conservative party – by the way did we mention you could have voted in this thing if you paid £25, you pack of fucking cheapskates?”

 

http://newsthump.com/2016/08/12/labour-courting-votes-by-telling-new-members-to-fck-off/

[FieldingMellish]

WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks  2h2 hours ago

#Corbyn vote exclusion Court of Appeal judge Philip Sales was Blair insider for years http://is.gd/sales1  & http://is.gd/sales2 

 

 

https://twitter.com/wikileaks

 

It's hard to be surprised by anything anymore.

[Red Phoenix]

I think one of the key problems here is purely capitalism, and capitalist swine. This is what I think they're really scared of, and I think it's why Corbyn and McDonnell have been attacked from the off : https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/thomas-hanna-joe-guinan/democracy-and-decentralisation-are-their-watchwords-for-corbyn-and-mcdonn

 

Almost all of the rest coming from the media and the PLP, imo, is just varying forms of bullshit.

[Spy Bee]

Wrexham CLP nominated Smith today. I can't say I really understand that,

[Strontium]

Wrexham CLP nominated Smith today. I can't say I really understand that,

 

 

Even less understandably, Barrow in Furness CLP nominated Corbyn. Essentially a vote to put 8,000 locals on the dole and destroy the town's economy.

[RedBadger]

The mainstream press conveniently omits the fact that one of the judges, Philip Sales QC, is one of Tony Blair's long standing cronies. What was that about justice not just being done but being seen to be done?

[sir roger]

I suppose you will get quirks around the country with CLP's. You only need a couple of small number of people with strong personalities who have a certain view left or right who will have control of the meetings and can steer the nominations in their chosen direction.

 

I can't believe it is going to be late-September before an announcement of the winner, it's getting a bit tedious already.

[sir roger]

The mainstream press conveniently omits the fact that one of the judges, Philip Sales QC, is one of Tony Blair's long standing cronies. What was that about justice not just being done but being seen to be done?

 

Not seen any report on whether it was a unanimous or split decision.

[magicrat]

Wrexham CLP nominated Smith today. I can't say I really understand that,

Must be a Welsh thing

[RedBadger]

Not seen any report on whether it was a unanimous or split decision.

It doesn't really matter if a third of the judges is biased that probably enough to convince the others

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Even less understandably, Barrow in Furness CLP nominated Corbyn. Essentially a vote to put 8,000 locals on the dole and destroy the town's economy.

It's almost as if people are capable about thinking beyond what they are told is their narrow, short-term best interest.

 

Baffling, I know.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I suppose you will get quirks around the country with CLP's. You only need a couple of small number of people with strong personalities who have a certain view left or right who will have control of the meetings and can steer the nominations in their chosen direction.

 

 

From my extensive research (i.e. attending one CLP meeting to discuss the leadership election) that's probably less likely than ever.  People who may not ordinarily attend a CLP meeting, during the quiet times, are probably more likely to attend them now.  The larger numbers of attendees (especially first-time attendees) would mean that local loudmouths would be less able to steer things one way or another.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Some thoughts from Alun Parry - Scouse leftie activist (but not a Trotskyite entryist), singer songwriter, erstwhile chairman of AFC Liverpool and a good Red.

 

On my travels singing up and down the country, I have played for several local Labour Party events. I'm not sectarian and so, despite my dissatisfaction with Labour's policies, I imagined they may not represent the actual activists on the ground and I would happily play for them.

I only started refusing to play for Labour events when the racist mug came out and I turned down a friend during the election campaign telling him that I couldn't in all conscience assist any party in electioneering for that.

I would often leave these events feeling both puzzled and optimistic. If the party members were enthusiastic about its leadership and policies, there is no way they'd have been so enthusiastic about my performances. What I experienced at those events were passionate people who wanted a better world, yet were wedded to a party who wasn't officially offering one.

There have been a number of polls now regarding the leadership election. The latest has Corbyn winning a majority straight off. I don't know if this is true. But I do know that there has already been one solid expression of local party desires, and that is nominations from constituency parties. And Corbyn came top.

This is the Labour Party I have been playing to.

Whoever wins, it is abundantly clear that there is a massive divide between the politics of Labour MPs and Labour members which is now sharply in focus.

If Corbyn wins, this will be his biggest problem. His parliamentary party will be against him while the party in the country will be for him. I imagine that the party in the country will see this and seek to ensure their candidates have the same politics as they do.

Even if Corbyn doesn't win, I imagine it will be a defeat that is relatively narrow and many MPs will be looking over their shoulder as the reselection trigger processes start to kick in.

Many Labour MPs have been silent in the face of the most vicious Tory attacks on the living conditions of ordinary people. Yet now find their voice to attack Corbyn with a fervour they have barely found when it comes to Tory policies.

They show themselves to be at odds with a huge portion of party members, and maybe even a majority of party members. Whoever wins, this imbalance will likely be played out.

The key dividing line in UK politics today in my view is between the "Thatcherites" who accept her political settlement, and those who don't.

The Thatcherites are represented by the Tories, the Liberal Democrats, and the majority of the parliamentary Labour Party.

Corbyn is on our side of that divide, and it appears that the party membership at large is broadly with him.

[Anubis]

Wrexham CLP nominated Smith today. I can't say I really understand that,

Maybe they wrote Owain Glyndŵr on the ballot paper instead of Owen Smith.....

[Anubis]

It's almost as if people are capable about thinking beyond what they are told is their narrow, short-term best interest.

 

Baffling, I know.

 

Or that the constituents appear to be assured that the 6000 Trident jobs are already secured by contract, leaving people to concentrate on the other 59,000 living in an area riven by poverty.

[xerxes]

Some thoughts from Alun Parry - Scouse leftie activist (but not a Trotskyite entryist), singer songwriter, erstwhile chairman of AFC Liverpool and a good Red.

A really good piece from Alun there, Angry, thanks.

 

It is difficult to disagree with any of it.

 

No-one real knows what the new 500,000 membership really comprises, what it means, and what impact it will have on politics across the board. The coming couple of years will give us a better idea.

[VladimirIlyich]

Some thoughts from Alun Parry - Scouse leftie activist (but not a Trotskyite entryist), singer songwriter, erstwhile chairman of AFC Liverpool and a good Red.

On my travels singing up and down the country, I have played for several local Labour Party events. I'm not sectarian and so, despite my dissatisfaction with Labour's policies, I imagined they may not represent the actual activists on the ground and I would happily play for them.

I only started refusing to play for Labour events when the racist mug came out and I turned down a friend during the election campaign telling him that I couldn't in all conscience assist any party in electioneering for that.

I would often leave these events feeling both puzzled and optimistic. If the party members were enthusiastic about its leadership and policies, there is no way they'd have been so enthusiastic about my performances. What I experienced at those events were passionate people who wanted a better world, yet were wedded to a party who wasn't officially offering one.

There have been a number of polls now regarding the leadership election. The latest has Corbyn winning a majority straight off. I don't know if this is true. But I do know that there has already been one solid expression of local party desires, and that is nominations from constituency parties. And Corbyn came top.

This is the Labour Party I have been playing to.

Whoever wins, it is abundantly clear that there is a massive divide between the politics of Labour MPs and Labour members which is now sharply in focus.

If Corbyn wins, this will be his biggest problem. His parliamentary party will be against him while the party in the country will be for him. I imagine that the party in the country will see this and seek to ensure their candidates have the same politics as they do.

Even if Corbyn doesn't win, I imagine it will be a defeat that is relatively narrow and many MPs will be looking over their shoulder as the reselection trigger processes start to kick in.

Many Labour MPs have been silent in the face of the most vicious Tory attacks on the living conditions of ordinary people. Yet now find their voice to attack Corbyn with a fervour they have barely found when it comes to Tory policies.

They show themselves to be at odds with a huge portion of party members, and maybe even a majority of party members. Whoever wins, this imbalance will likely be played out.

The key dividing line in UK politics today in my view is between the "Thatcherites" who accept her political settlement, and those who don't.

The Thatcherites are represented by the Tories, the Liberal Democrats, and the majority of the parliamentary Labour Party.

Corbyn is on our side of that divide, and it appears that the party membership at large is broadly with him.

Like us 'trotskyites' on here have been saying about how the PLP doesnt even come close to representing the views of ordinary Labour Party members,and ordinary people for that matter. The 'thatcherite' statement is especially true as you have Labour MPs almost fawning over the bitch instead of reminding everybody of the serious damage her government did to the country. It really is like two different political parties instead of one.

[thechap]

It's almost as if people are capable about thinking beyond what they are told is their narrow, short-term best interest.

 

Baffling, I know.

 

Wow.  Did you or anyone else on here hold that view about the EU referendum result? Or were those who voted out called everything under the sun?

[FieldingMellish]

How George Galloway sees it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-aSa4g3CoE

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Wow. Did you or anyone else on here hold that view about the EU referendum result? Or were those who voted out called everything under the sun?

My understanding is that the bulk of Leave voters were voting in what they perceived as their self-interest.

But that's a different argument for a different thread.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I see that twat Debonair has been crying "death threat" because some student tweeted the phrase "get in the sea".

[Spy Bee]

How George Galloway sees it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-aSa4g3CoE

Listened to about 40 mins of that. He's a brilliant orator.

[xerxes]

It really is like two different political parties instead of one.

I think there are four.

 

There is Corbyn and his extra parliamentary cohorts. There is the majority of the PLP and all the MEPs. There is the 500,000 membership of indeterminate motivation, and a vote of around 9.3m.

 

The current situation is madness. Corbyn the leader with the policies, but who has not the competence to implement them. The PLP, who have the voters, but little future, facing deselection/reselection committees of random motivation. The 500,000 have their man, but beyond that, I am not sure they have much idea beyond that, a continuation of the Brexit phenomena. The voters? Well it remains ro be seen who and what they have to vote for.

[ZonkoVille77]

Another shitty post on the matter by sexrex.

 

"The PLP, who have the voters"

 

What are you blubbering on about?

 

Most of them are there by default, simply because they were the labour option. Like having the choice between which testicle you'd prefer to be kicked in.

 

Proper left leaning Labour MP's should be there, not Tory-lite, Blairite goons and if the "voters" had a left leaning option these goons would be gone, and finally is looking like they will be gone.

[VladimirIlyich]

Another shitty post on the matter by sexrex.

 

"The PLP, who have the voters"

 

What are you blubbering on about?

 

Most of them are there by default, simply because they were the labour option. Like having the choice between which testicle you'd prefer to be kicked in.

 

Proper left leaning Labour MP's should be there, not Tory-lite, Blairite goons and if the "voters" had a left leaning option these goons would be gone, and finally is looking like they will be gone.

Yep.

There is simply a choice between the current and recent Labour Party represented by the PLP,who the voters rejected despite the tories getting less than a quarter of the vote and those who agree that the party needs to change and get a lot closer to its roots who are siding with Corbyn's policies. While the PLP continue to attack Corbyn because its almost impossible to attack what he represents,his support gets stronger and more resolute,especially as his leadership is an ex corporate PR man.

The simple solution is for the PLP to realise that the party members,and voters imo,want to see a Labour Party further to the left yet they seem even more stubborn than us Corbyn supporters and seem not to realise why Corbyn remains popular,or care even.