The 97

[Arniepie]

15 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I get what you're saying. But here's the thing to me. I don't believe among the general population the flowers were seen as "self pity city". In fact I think that is a narrative that was built because we refused to take their lie, in part thanks to that cunt who is now our prime minister. So yes today that has stuck. And nobody sees the irony with the reaction to their queen of hearts. But in 1989 where that lie started and was delivered complete by the 1st inquest, I don't believe the general population saw what happened at Anfield as anything but the genuine grief and coming together it was. Sadly every thing we did then and since has been the exact bulldog spirit we're always told we should admire, yet we're resented for it. What could be finer than coming together in an hour of need and fighting injustice? 

 

Don't get me wrong, I do see how it's become acceptable to leave us as one of the final groups it's ok to absue. But I just feel that government and police force would have behaved exactly the same had it been say spurs there that day, who themselves were lucky to survive that death trap. How it would have evolved over the next 30 years remains to be seen, but I've no doubt it would have started and got as far as the first inquest in the exact same way. 

Yep agreed..I think that initial blame the fans approach would have applied to any other club.

And maybe it is the what came after which is different?

I genuinely can't think of another city in the country which would be labelled as 'self pity city'and these levels tend to stick.

I remember there was even a gag on have I got news for you about not saying anything which would offend the city.

[Harry Squatter]

Not really sure about this so correct me if I'm wrong but has there been much of a division between the Hillsborough families/campaigners down the years?. 

 

A couple of times new groups have been started and some say the club hasn't been overly supportive sometimes.

 

In both the 1996 film and Anne there's no mention of Margaret Aspinall who has been at heart of the campaign. I know a lot of people were annoyed at her a couple of years back for accepting an award on behalf of the families and accepting it off Theresa May. 

 

Like I say, I've only ever heard the odd rumour that they've been divided and disagreed on a few things.

[Barrington Womble]

6 hours ago, Arniepie said:

Yep agreed..I think that initial blame the fans approach would have applied to any other club.

And maybe it is the what came after which is different?

I genuinely can't think of another city in the country which would be labelled as 'self pity city'and these levels tend to stick.

I remember there was even a gag on have I got news for you about not saying anything which would offend the city.

I think there's every chance if this had happened to another set of fans, they may not have fought the way we did. That's not to disparage other fans, it's just the nature of the size of our city and we were already used to fighting the establishment, allowed that to happen. Using spurs as an example, the nature of London means it's slightly less close knit. I know it is different in the 80s to now, but lots and lots of the core spurs fan base had already moved from there to places like Hertfordshire and Essex. 

4 hours ago, Harry Squatter said:

Not really sure about this so correct me if I'm wrong but has there been much of a division between the Hillsborough families/campaigners down the years?. 

 

A couple of times new groups have been started and some say the club hasn't been overly supportive sometimes.

 

In both the 1996 film and Anne there's no mention of Margaret Aspinall who has been at heart of the campaign. I know a lot of people were annoyed at her a couple of years back for accepting an award on behalf of the families and accepting it off Theresa May. 

 

Like I say, I've only ever heard the odd rumour that they've been divided and disagreed on a few things.

I'm sure there is someone who remembers this better than me. There was a point where the majority of the HFSG didn't want to continue the fight for justice as they felt all legal avenues had been explored and this spawned the HJC - which had a strong focus on fundraising to help fund future actions. I think Anne Williams was part HJC originally (in fact maybe was the chair) and then at some point she stepped away to purely focus on her own campaign. From a club position for a long time the club refused to acknowledge the HJC, with Parry saying something like "how many groups do we have to talk to". So the club continued dialogue only with the HFSG. 

[Arniepie]

From memory,and its implied in the programme,I think.the division was caused because some were seen as being a bit too passive shall we say? (I remember trevor hicks getting a lot of criticism at one point)and the hjc were definitely seen as a lot more 'bolshie'.(scouse?)I think there was 1 incident where the rag offered them money and some wanted to discuss it,whilst others wanted to tell them to shove it.

Saying that,they certainly were a lot more visible and seemed to invigorate the campaign.Them stickers were everywhere at one point.

I also remember the club definitely recognising the hfsg and not the hjc..however I also remember another incident when the club I think charged the group for refreshments which was a bit of a pr disaster.

Obviously people involved would know a lot more than me,bit that's the impression I've gleamed over the years.

[Frank Dacey]

I think all football fans were regarded with enormous suspicion, hence the fences at every ground and the proposed membership scheme, which was scrapped after Hillsborough, but which had been the subject of intensive campaigning. Remember the Luton Chairman (a Tory MP, can't remember his name) and the horrible Sports Minister Colin Moynihan.

There were also pens at various grounds, Hillsborough infamously. At Anfield you could move about the terraces and the crowd could find its level. I never once felt my safety was in doubt standing at Anfield, even in a full house.

I remember talking to a colleague of mine who'd gone to watch West Brom at QPR. He walked up to the turnstiles eating a bag of chips. The copper on duty stopped him, searched him and then deliberately knocked all his chips on the ground on the pretext that he might have had a weapon concealed in them. A couple of weeks later this guy went to a Rugby match at Twickenham. He and his mates were the worse for drink as they went in but the only response from the police was to say, 'Enjoy the game, sir.'

[Arniepie]

The fences themselves would often vary,the fences at the likes of Anfield and goodison were relatively low,the ones at Hillsborough were literally like a cage.

[Barrington Womble]

6 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

The fences themselves would often vary,the fences at the likes of Anfield and goodison were relatively low,the ones at Hillsborough were literally like a cage.

I'm pretty sure though those Anfield ones would have been even harder to get out of. They were just solid steel and sloped in to the terrace. They were horrible times. 

[Arniepie]

4 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I'm pretty sure though those Anfield ones would have been even harder to get out of. They were just solid steel and sloped in to the terrace. They were horrible times. 

The ones at Hillsborough were the worst I'd seen..they were about 12 foot high with big spikes on the top.

The only word I could describe them with,would be a cage. 

I remember climbing quite easily onto the fences at goodison as a particularly short arsed 13 year cos I couldnt see,not realising they were covered in burglar paint.

[Barrington Womble]

6 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

The ones at Hillsborough were the worst I'd seen..they were about 12 foot high with big spikes on the top.

The only word I could describe them with,would be a cage. 

I remember climbing quite easily onto the fences at goodison as a particularly short arsed 13 year cos I couldnt see,not realising they were covered in burglar paint.

As a kid I used to stand on the railings to watch at Anfield in the paddock before it was seated. I think the burglar point was only over the spikes at Anfield, so you could use the railings as a good spec to watch the game. What I remember from those ones at Hillsborough, you're right that they were like a cage, an animal cage in fact. So they were steel frames with mesh over them. I se.to recall the mesh was kicked out at Hillsborough and the gaps in the steel frames were big enough to get through. I've struggle to find pictures of our fences, but I think these were similar - with a nice picture of a manc to remind people just how much fun 70s & 80s football could be! But there's no getting through them, just over and they were designed the way they point in that if you climbed up them it was difficult to get back and over. 

 

 

[redinblack]

On 08/01/2022 at 21:06, Frank Dacey said:

I think all football fans were regarded with enormous suspicion, hence the fences at every ground and the proposed membership scheme, which was scrapped after Hillsborough, but which had been the subject of intensive campaigning. Remember the Luton Chairman (a Tory MP, can't remember his name) and the horrible Sports Minister Colin Moynihan.

 

David Evans. Absolute Cunt.

[dockers_strike]

I first saw the 'Hillsbrough Law' mentioned in the telegraph of all places a few days ago. It appears Brighton have come out and lent their support to it. Also, Shrewsbury Town FC have issued a strong statement about the 'fans' shown making those vile chants last night.

 

Brighton have become the first Premier League club to join Liverpool in backing the Hillsborough Law Now campaign.

 

On Friday, politicians from across the political spectrum, including two former Prime Ministers, bereaved relatives, trade unionists and the victims of other historic injustices gathered to demand the introduction of a Hillsborough Law.

 

In just a matter of days, the movement has gathered plenty of interest and Brighton have become the next Premier League club to publicly show support. 

 

The Seagulls issued a powerful statement on their official website to show their support for the campaign. It read: “ Brighton & Hove Albion are proud to add their support to the campaign to launch a Hillsborough Law to provide transparency to bereaved families and rebalance the scales of justice in the UK.

 

“The new law, proposed in 2017 by the Hillsborough families and survivors, and championed by the Mayors of Liverpool and Manchester, Steve Rotherham and Andy Burnham, seeks to compel all public officials to be truthful at inquiries into public tragedies.

“It also aims to ensure bereaved families have access to adequate public funding to support their quest for answers.

 

“We stand in solidarity with all the families who lost their loved ones at Hillsborough on 15 April 1989, or as a result of the tragic events; the survivors and Liverpool Football Club – who have carried themselves with such dignity for almost 33 years in the search for truth and justice – and call for a Hillsborough Law Now.

“Justice for the 97.

“Brighton & Hove Albion FC”

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-hillsborough-law-brighton-22697402

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

Shrewsbury forum's response to the chants:

 

https://blueandamber.proboards.com/thread/102667/shameful-club-statement-issued

 

Most of the posters on there seem like proper, decent football fans you could have a pint with and talk about the match. More than a few bemoaning the fact that those anti-LFC songs were sung instead of getting behind their own team. There's the odd incredulous denier, a couple of anti-Scouse/ anti-LFC types, and a lot seem genuinely shocked to learn that we have to routinely put up with all that 'merderer' and victims shite (and all the rest of the naked bigotry, disguised as 'banter'). A couple of posts that seem to think we still sing the Munich song, which is a bit disheartening; but the majority of responses are of the type you would see on here about the shitness of modern football, or UK society.

 

Reading the first few pages was actually refreshing, as all we tend to see of away fans is the bigotry.

[Arniepie]

23 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

I first saw the 'Hillsbrough Law' mentioned in the telegraph of all places a few days ago. It appears Brighton have come out and lent their support to it. Also, Shrewsbury Town FC have issued a strong statement about the 'fans' shown making those vile chants last night.

 

Brighton have become the first Premier League club to join Liverpool in backing the Hillsborough Law Now campaign.

 

On Friday, politicians from across the political spectrum, including two former Prime Ministers, bereaved relatives, trade unionists and the victims of other historic injustices gathered to demand the introduction of a Hillsborough Law.

 

In just a matter of days, the movement has gathered plenty of interest and Brighton have become the next Premier League club to publicly show support. 

 

The Seagulls issued a powerful statement on their official website to show their support for the campaign. It read: “ Brighton & Hove Albion are proud to add their support to the campaign to launch a Hillsborough Law to provide transparency to bereaved families and rebalance the scales of justice in the UK.

 

“The new law, proposed in 2017 by the Hillsborough families and survivors, and championed by the Mayors of Liverpool and Manchester, Steve Rotherham and Andy Burnham, seeks to compel all public officials to be truthful at inquiries into public tragedies.

“It also aims to ensure bereaved families have access to adequate public funding to support their quest for answers.

 

“We stand in solidarity with all the families who lost their loved ones at Hillsborough on 15 April 1989, or as a result of the tragic events; the survivors and Liverpool Football Club – who have carried themselves with such dignity for almost 33 years in the search for truth and justice – and call for a Hillsborough Law Now.

“Justice for the 97.

“Brighton & Hove Albion FC”

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-hillsborough-law-brighton-22697402

I know I'm proballly being a bit naive here but the fact that we need to enshrine in law,that public officials need to tell the truth, when innocent people have died,is almost beyond comprehension

 

[dockers_strike]

4 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I know I'm proballly being a bit naive here but the fact that we need to enshrine in law,that public officials need to tell the truth, when innocent people have died,is almost beyond comprehension

 

I agree. But we've been living in an age for sometime where public officials, police and other bodies cover their own arses first and foremost.

 

The option is do nothing and continue to let the cunts get away with it.

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Arniepie said:

I know I'm proballly being a bit naive here but the fact that we need to enshrine in law,that public officials need to tell the truth, when innocent people have died,is almost beyond comprehension

 

I don't know what a new law would achieve in that regard. I thought all official statements from the police is effectively like being under oath. And we have perjury laws. It's almost like they've gone "well perjury is just a law for the rest of you, we're above the law of the common person"

[Anubis]

Will never be forgotten.

[Pete]

Rest in Peace. Never forgotten. 

[Bernard Diomede]

Feels somehow starker to me this year as we plan to travel to a semi final in the morning. 
 

May they rest in peace. 

[coachpotato]

RIP to the 97, not forgetting all who have been affected over the years since.

[DalyanPete]

1 hour ago, Anubis said:

Will never be forgotten.

Amen. RIP friends.

[DalyanPete]

43 minutes ago, Bernard Diomede said:

Feels somehow starker to me this year as we plan to travel to a semi final in the morning. 
 

May they rest in peace. 

Well said. Enjoy the win.

I swapped my Lepping lane ground ticket for the stand the night before. There but for the grace of God ...

[Tj hooker]

God bless them all and everyone affected by this injustice 

[an tha]

[Lario]

LFCTV is free on Sky at the minute for all the Hillsborough tributes.

[Bjornebye]

YNWA x