Jump to content
Anubis

The 97

Recommended Posts

The thing that knobheads outside of Liverpool don't understand is the build up of fans before the game outside the stadium, was a direct result of Duckenfield's incompetance and lack of planning. There are some great threads on twitter about it,especially from Adrian Tempany who  forensically lays out the timeline and mistakes and lack of action by SYP, that led to the build up. It completely debunks the idea that late ,drunken and ticketless fans caused the crush - as do the Inquests and Taylor report.

This part of the tragedy often gets overlooked, as the human and heartbreaking part for the families occured after the events in the stadium, but it is important to put people right who still think otherwise.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 06/01/2022 at 12:37, Barrington Womble said:

the thing i hate about it is anyone who went to football supporting any club back then, knows what the police were like. they were utter cunts. to be fair to them, football was fucking wild back then and if you were an away fan anywhere, you were sure to run into or see trouble that had absolutely nothing to do with the police. The 80s was a violent time and we pretty much had a kind of military police. Thatcher allowed the cunts to do whatever they wanted without consequence, no matter the setting and it wasn't just football, it was daily life. It's funny, I sometimes stick on that "80s Liverpool" radio station on in the car and they always have this sound bite "from the decade of decadence". To me that is such a South East Tory point of view of that time. The rest of us were effectively living under the breadline within a violent police state. And they wondered why we were a handful. 

Exactly how it was Baz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very well done series. Maxine Peake is a fabulous actress and was brilliant in the role.

Tough watch at times though, and brought back feelings of sadness and of course, anger.

Don’t mind admitting there were a few tears being brushed away.

I had a mate a few years ago who was a copper in Merseyside Police, he’s a Blue too, but a pretty sound lad. We only ever talked about Hillsborough once, several years after it happened, and he said to me that they were trained to treat crowds, particularly football crowds, as a “fluid force”, that if you stopped the flow at one point, then it would flow around you to another point, but that it was their job to anticipate and counter the flow becoming dangerous to the public.

I remember he said that they’d plainly got it wrong at Hillsborough, and he was always uncomfortable with how the West Midlands and South Yorkshire Police forces had gone about their “duties” afterwards. He also said Bettison was disliked and couldn’t understand how he’d been appointed Chief of Merseyside Police.

Sadly, we’ve all known for decades what went on, and I will never forgive the slimy cover up from our so called betters that caused so many years of hurt and angst for everyone affected by it.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 05/01/2022 at 15:10, Harry Squatter said:

"What about Justice for Heysel?"

 

"The police chief, Belgian authorities were prosecuted and a load of Liverpool fans were either arrested in Belgium or extradited there to be charged with Manslaughter. No one tried to cover anything up"

 

"Not really justice is it?"

 

The one I had a go at was some tit from Shrewsbury who said that Liverpool fans have blood on their hands for turning up late without tickets. I sent him the statistics of the pens and the findings of the latest inquiry but he never came back with anything.

 

Also seems to be a lot of Nottingham Forest fans who pipe up every now and again saying they know "what really happened" yet never have the balls to say what they mean. 

Nottingham was a hotbed of scabs so no great surprise when they act like scabs and bender over for the higher ups with their bullshit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see there's lots of news coverage today of the Hillsborough law. Fair do's to Theresa May too despite her history as PM and Home Secretary, I thought she nailed it better than anyone today with this part of here words. 

 

 “The very bodies that we expect to protect and support the public seek instead to protect themselves, and this defensive attitude means that families are all too often denied access to the truth, and with that, often denied access to justice.”

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I see there's lots of news coverage today of the Hillsborough law. Fair do's to Theresa May too despite her history as PM and Home Secretary, I thought she nailed it better than anyone today with this part of here words. 

 

 “The very bodies that we expect to protect and support the public seek instead to protect themselves, and this defensive attitude means that families are all too often denied access to the truth, and with that, often denied access to justice.”

Listening to the testimonies of some of the other speakers - about Grenfell, Manchester Arena, Zane, the nuclear tests, etc. - was heartbreaking and infuriating in equal measure.

The Hillsborough Law is long overdue.

 

Screenshot_2022-01-07-16-23-37-81_a23b203fd3aafc6dcb84e438dda678b6.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Beno said:

The thing that knobheads outside of Liverpool don't understand is the build up of fans before the game outside the stadium, was a direct result of Duckenfield's incompetance and lack of planning. There are some great threads on twitter about it,especially from Adrian Tempany who  forensically lays out the timeline and mistakes and lack of action by SYP, that led to the build up. It completely debunks the idea that late ,drunken and ticketless fans caused the crush - as do the Inquests and Taylor report.

This part of the tragedy often gets overlooked, as the human and heartbreaking part for the families occured after the events in the stadium, but it is important to put people right who still think otherwise.

I don't disagree with a single word, however anyone who needs to be put right is not worth bothering with IMO. I understand that have a greater interest and understanding of the events but anyone who does not now know roughly what happened, especially after the HIP and the unlawful death findings is either wilfully ignorant or a lying cunt. Either way I would suggest not wasting time on them. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whenever the likes of the mail starts banging on about 'looking after our own ',I always think back to that period.

Nearly 100 lost their lives and it was met with the biggest institutional cover up the country has ever seen,whilst the media and police conspired to blame the victims(and it's still never come out where those twisted lies exactly came from originally,I'm guessing not some lowly plod)

I'm also convinced those high up in government knew exactly what went on.

Agree completely about Teresa may.Despite what you think of her,the only home secretary to make a difference, and I include that pimp jack straw in that.

Thought the bit in it which showed how the hjc came about was quite interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Listening to the testimonies of some of the other speakers - about Grenfell, Manchester Arena, Zane, the nuclear tests, etc. - was heartbreaking and infuriating in equal measure.

The Hillsborough Law is long overdue.

 

Screenshot_2022-01-07-16-23-37-81_a23b203fd3aafc6dcb84e438dda678b6.jpg

What is a reflection of where we are, is we need to ask for "candour" of our public servants. So we're asking for the police to be "open and honest". Are they not supposed to be that already? Do we not have laws governing this already? It's a terrible reflection of who the police are institutionally that anybody feels the need to deliver a law that requires them to be honest. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

A reminder of how the football authorities viewed fans in the 1980s.

 

Screenshot_2022-01-07-23-29-01-26_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

Only last week I was trying to convince my wife that this was true - they actually treated us like that back then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I don't disagree with a single word, however anyone who needs to be put right is not worth bothering with IMO. I understand that have a greater interest and understanding of the events but anyone who does not now know roughly what happened, especially after the HIP and the unlawful death findings is either wilfully ignorant or a lying cunt. Either way I would suggest not wasting time on them. 

The thing to remember is Hillsborough was nearly 32 years ago, so anyone under 45 probably wasn't fully aware or cared much about finding out about it, especially fans from other teams, who go the game and sing the songs.

I never get worked up by anything on social media, as most of it is done just by knobs thinking they're funny, but the more that the whole story of police incompetance and corruption is placed front and centre,  these knobs can't plead ignorance or hide behind lack of information .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if any other club,bar maybe Everton ironically, been playing that day,if the reaction would have been the same?

If say Norwich had have been involved,would their fans have been labelled as a tanked up mob,who piss on the dead?

 

Somehow,I doubt it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I wonder if any other club,bar maybe Everton ironically, been playing that day,if the reaction would have been the same?

If say Norwich had have been involved,would their fans have been labelled as a tanked up mob,who piss on the dead?

 

Somehow,I doubt it.

I think all football fans were seen as a subclass by the government, police and right wing press in the 80s. I don't know if Norwich fans would be so easy to blame, but I feel 100% certain, any side from an inner city would have been very easy to blame. In fact this is the part that's so annoying to me when anyone who's over 50 and went to football back then doesn't have sympathy with what happened. Everyone knows the disaster could have been them (ask spurs) and the cover up as we've seen with countless injustices could also be anyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think all football fans were seen as a subclass by the government, police and right wing press in the 80s. I don't know if Norwich fans would be so easy to blame, but I feel 100% certain, any side from an inner city would have been very easy to blame. In fact this is the part that's so annoying to me when anyone who's over 50 and went to football back then doesn't have sympathy with what happened. Everyone knows the disaster could have been them (ask spurs) and the cover up as we've seen with countless injustices could also be anyone.

I just get the mpression that it being liverpool ,gave an extra impetus to the viciousness of the response.

The city was fairly much a pariah in the 80s and was out on it's own politically, its no surprise therefore the loudest voices where those on the right of the political spectrum, Ingram,the rag,the mail etc

Scousers, still have,a stereotype about being robbers, and that certainly tied in with the robbing of the dead narrative. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I wonder if any other club,bar maybe Everton ironically, been playing that day,if the reaction would have been the same?

If say Norwich had have been involved,would their fans have been labelled as a tanked up mob,who piss on the dead?

 

Somehow,I doubt it.

Thatcher's response to Heysel was something along the lines of "what do you expect from that city". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

I just get the mpression that it being liverpool ,gave an extra impetus to the viciousness of the response.

The city was fairly much a pariah in the 80s and was out on it's own politically, its no surprise therefore the loudest voices where those on the right of the political spectrum, Ingram,the rag,the mail etc

Scousers, still have,a stereotype about being robbers, and that certainly tied in with the robbing of the dead narrative. 

 

Maybe it helped the narrative that everyone hates us. But football was a subclass, the rag hated all of it. And people seem to think this was the only place in the country that voted labour and stood up to her. Just because we let Hatton to wreak his own damage on the city doesn't mean we weren't the only people opposing Thatcher. In fact the actions of the police that day were routed in their behaviour and subsequent lauding as thatchers army during the miners strike. If there's no miners striker, Hillsborough as a lie is much harder to pull off, because it was the miners strike that allowed our police forces to believe they were above the law, because as we've seen both then, Hillsborough and since, they very much are.  

 

Edit.. Thatcher was as close as you can get to running a police state and an almost military dictator. She used the Falklands to flex her muscles abroad and the miners to flex them here. Like any military dictator, you're always at risk if you show any opposition. I just think it's wrong to suggest we were an opposition of 1. She broke up anything that reflected the working classes, football, miners, dockers and the metropolitan county councils. 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Thatcher's response to Heysel was something along the lines of "what do you expect from that city". 

She said something like a particularly violent city.

She also refused to publish a report which found the ground was unsuitable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Maybe it helped the narrative that everyone hates us. But football was a subclass, the rag hated all of it. And people seem to think this was the only place in the country that voted labour and stood up to her. Just because we let Hatton to wreak his own damage on the city doesn't mean we weren't the only people opposing Thatcher. In fact the actions of the police that day were routed in their behaviour and subsequent lauding as thatchers army during the miners strike. If there's no miners striker, Hillsborough as a lie is much harder to pull off, because it was the miners strike that allowed our police forces to believe they were above the law, because as we've seen both then, Hillsborough and since, they very much are.  

 

Edit.. Thatcher was as close as you can get to running a police state and an almost military dictator. She used the Falklands to flex her muscles abroad and the miners to flex them here. Like any military dictator, you're always at risk if you show any opposition. I just think it's wrong to suggest we were an opposition of 1. She broke up anything that reflected the working classes, football, miners, dockers and the metropolitan county councils. 

 

Oh yeah we were only part of the enemy within.

But if you look at the numerous sticks the city is beat with,thieves,whingers, always the victim..all tie in with the response to that day.

Look st the difference in responses to the flowers which covered Anfield to the flowers laid after diana died.one city was castigated for wallowing in grief,self pity city coined by our cunt of a pm,a tag that lives on today,the other a national outpouring of grief.

Maybe the response may not have been completely difference but I do feel there was a certain glee in certain quarters, as liverpool were involved

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Oh yeah we were only part of the enemy within.

But if you look at the numerous sticks the city is beat with,thieves,whingers, always the victim..all tie in with the response to that day.

Look st the difference in responses to the flowers which covered Anfield to the flowers laid after diana died.one city was castigated for wallowing in grief,self pity city coined by our cunt of a pm,a tag that lives on today,the other a national outpouring of grief.

Maybe the response may not have been completely difference but I do feel there was a certain glee in certain quarters, as liverpool were involved

 

I get what you're saying. But here's the thing to me. I don't believe among the general population the flowers were seen as "self pity city". In fact I think that is a narrative that was built because we refused to take their lie, in part thanks to that cunt who is now our prime minister. So yes today that has stuck. And nobody sees the irony with the reaction to their queen of hearts. But in 1989 where that lie started and was delivered complete by the 1st inquest, I don't believe the general population saw what happened at Anfield as anything but the genuine grief and coming together it was. Sadly every thing we did then and since has been the exact bulldog spirit we're always told we should admire, yet we're resented for it. What could be finer than coming together in an hour of need and fighting injustice? 

 

Don't get me wrong, I do see how it's become acceptable to leave us as one of the final groups it's ok to absue. But I just feel that government and police force would have behaved exactly the same had it been say spurs there that day, who themselves were lucky to survive that death trap. How it would have evolved over the next 30 years remains to be seen, but I've no doubt it would have started and got as far as the first inquest in the exact same way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×