Buying a house

[Oh Buoy]

We've just been gazumped. 

 

Agreed the sale price, vendor wanted to continue marketing the property, we asked for exclusivity/taking it off the market, vendor accepted, we sent our solicitor & mortgage in principle details over to the EA and 'out of the blue' someone put in a higher offer which was 1k below the asking price. 

 

Question for those with experience in this - is it typical for the EA to ask for your MIP as surely this just gives them the opportunity to gazump/cause chaos if you financially commit to anything? 

 

How do people usually deal with things on acceptance of final price? 

 

The whole process just seems to favour the vendor with no financial penalty yet the buyer risks everything.

[Rico1304]

They set a price, you went low. That’s the risk. If you want it pay the price.

[Oh Buoy]

They set a price, you went low. That’s the risk. If you want it pay the price.

I doubt even if we went in at asking price they'd have stuck to the agreement. The price wasn't the issue it was how much more could they up it.

[Furmedge]

It's a shithouse tactic agreeing to take the house off the market and not doing so. Happened to us when we bought our current place. Had the bid accepted, we actually offered the asking price. House was £8k under market value because the vendor wanted a quick sale and she'd not looked after it (house was only 4 years old so was mainly cosmetic) and we were the first to view it.

 

One of the conditions we stated upon acceptance was that it was taken off the market which they agreed to do, and we then started the ball rolling with surveyors and contacting contractors to do some work on the place once we had the keys. The seller and/or the estate agent got greedy and started offering more viewings on it, which we found out about because they actually offered us a viewing when they finally replied to an email enquiry we'd sent weeks earlier and had then got a viewing via telephone due to them not answering the email. A threat to pull out helped us get the property finally off the market but it's a shithouse tactic nonetheless.

[JagSquared]

We've just been gazumped.

 

Agreed the sale price, vendor wanted to continue marketing the property, we asked for exclusivity/taking it off the market, vendor accepted, we sent our solicitor & mortgage in principle details over to the EA and 'out of the blue' someone put in a higher offer which was 1k below the asking price.

 

Question for those with experience in this - is it typical for the EA to ask for your MIP as surely this just gives them the opportunity to gazump/cause chaos if you financially commit to anything?

 

How do people usually deal with things on acceptance of final price?

 

The whole process just seems to favour the vendor with no financial penalty yet the buyer risks everything.

Same thing happened to us, we agreed an offer and then got gazumped by someone by 10k. I blew a fit as I was on holiday at the time and had just signed mortgage papers and shelled out.

 

They claimed to have taken it off the market and the offer was from someone who viewed the property recently. As we wanted it and had agreed the deal in principle I refused to match but offered 5k more for them to agree to refuse any further offers.

 

I still feel I was ripped off but have no way of knowing if the other offer was genuine. But we wanted the property and still got a good deal on a place that had everything we wanted in the location we wanted.

 

Helpfully another property down the street which is identical save for a bigger garden has sold a year later for significantly more than we paid so in reality I would do the same again.

 

All situations are unique you need to see if you are happy to pay the price to get what you want.

[Oh Buoy]

It's a shithouse tactic agreeing to take the house off the market and not doing so. Happened to us when we bought our current place. Had the bid accepted, we actually offered the asking price. House was £8k under market value because the vendor wanted a quick sale and she'd not looked after it (house was only 4 years old so was mainly cosmetic) and we were the first to view it.

 

One of the conditions we stated upon acceptance was that it was taken off the market which they agreed to do, and we then started the ball rolling with surveyors and contacting contractors to do some work on the place once we had the keys. The seller and/or the estate agent got greedy and started offering more viewings on it, which we found out about because they actually offered us a viewing when they finally replied to an email enquiry we'd sent weeks earlier and had then got a viewing via telephone due to them not answering the email. A threat to pull out helped us get the property finally off the market but it's a shithouse tactic nonetheless.

 

I think the amusing part was the story changed when he rang the misses - "the bid was from someone who viewed the property at the same time as you" (given to me) to "it was from someone who hasn't viewed the property" (given to her). After a little bit of research it appears 'ghost gazumping' is becoming quite common as there's little/no regulation surrounding it. It's just frowned upon by the industry.

 

We'll see next week as to whether the bid was genuine I suppose and should a call be received, I think the only way we'd discuss it further would be to enter a lockdown agreement - potentially worth the additional cost just to ensure it doesn't happen again. 

 

Same thing happened to us, we agreed an offer and then got gazumped by someone by 10k. I blew a fit as I was on holiday at the time and had just signed mortgage papers and shelled out.

 

They claimed to have taken it off the market and the offer was from someone who viewed the property recently. As we wanted it and had agreed the deal in principle I refused to match but offered 5k more for them to agree to refuse any further offers.

 

I still feel I was ripped off but have no way of knowing if the other offer was genuine. But we wanted the property and still got a good deal on a place that had everything we wanted in the location we wanted.

 

Helpfully another property down the street which is identical save for a bigger garden has sold a year later for significantly more than we paid so in reality I would do the same again.

 

All situations are unique you need to see if you are happy to pay the price to get what you want.

 

Good to hear you've got some value from it. 

 

I think the benefit for us is we're first-time buyers and have no rush and therefore no urgency to get the deal done/enter bidding wars. We'd like a house but we have an agreed price on each house and should the other enter emotional bidding, the other will automatically withdraw. 

 

The price we agreed was a fair price but it's clear the vendors/estate agent wanted more. As there's no science as to what a house is worth it defaults back to a house is only worth what someone want's to pay for it. 

[Rico1304]

You know what, I think you’re being done over. If it’s an estate selling it then they are usually after a fair price as quickly as possible. Assuming there’s more than one person in the estate then a few grand ain’t gonna make much difference split 3 or 4 ways. Tell the estate agent you’ve found another place and have had a bid accepted.

[Oh Buoy]

You know what, I think you’re being done over. If it’s an estate selling it then they are usually after a fair price as quickly as possible. Assuming there’s more than one person in the estate then a few grand ain’t gonna make much difference split 3 or 4 ways. Tell the estate agent you’ve found another place and have had a bid accepted.

 

We're just going to walk away mate. Everyone we've shared the timeline with just says exactly the same thing. 

 

They've had two chances to put this right and blown both opportunities. Giving them a 3rd chance just allows them to do it with us being financially tied into the deal. 

 

Plenty more houses coming on the market and plenty more vendors wanting a quick sale. We're in no rush. 

[Rico1304]

We're just going to walk away mate. Everyone we've shared the timeline with just says exactly the same thing.

 

They've had two chances to put this right and blown both opportunities. Giving them a 3rd chance just allows them to do it with us being financially tied into the deal.

 

Plenty more houses coming on the market and plenty more vendors wanting a quick sale. We're in no rush.

Fair enough, it’d just fuck with them a bit. You might end up with it cheaper now.

[Oh Buoy]

Question about surveys —

 

The partner wants to get a Homebuyer survey and whilst I agreed, I've looked further into it and it seems to have mixed opinions on what is suggested for a 1930's semi-detached house. Some are saying that there's little difference in the two and that anything produced in the full structual survey will have caveats or statements such as "it is recommended to get an expert to look into this". 

 

The house we're looking at has no obvious cracks and is very good repair. It's had a conservatory and kitchen extension both of which have been there for quite some time. My only concern here really is the age of the property and what whether that justifies the full structural survey which is £50 more.

 

What's the consensus here?

[The Guest]

When I bought we understood it to be that you had the basic survey, which was the minimum as it gives the lender the confidence that the building is worth the mortgage, the homebuyers, which was the next level up and they will go around the house and list anything that they see as a potential issue and then finally you also had the structural survey, where the surveyor literally digs around every nook and cranny and gets an expert view on any major issues.

 

It’s all subjective I think but I’m surprised that you’re saying the structural survey is only 50 quid more. We went for the homebuyers and it come back with a few issues that were easily ironed out. It was things like leaking radiators, some mould and an outstanding certificate which I think was for the boiler. It cost us 400 quid for the survey.

 

My friends paid for the structural survey which cost them about 1600 quid I think as they had some major worries about the roof. It came back that they were right. It would cost around 10k to fix on a 180k house. They asked for the money off and the owner refused so they pulled out. It cost them the 1600 quid which was obviously painful but it did save them in the long run. It’s all a risk really and how much your willing to pay for it. I’d maybe ask them what their structural survey entails and why it’s so cheap.

[neko]

I'm blown away by these stories.

 

When you make an offer to purchase here (Canada), it is a legally binding contract. If the buyer or seller pull out without just cause (like entertaining higher offers), there is a financial penalty to pay, whether from a deposit on the purchase or suing in a court of law.

 

Allowing the seller to continue to market the property after an agreement has been reached is absolute insanity.

[The Guest]

I'm blown away by these stories.

 

When you make an offer to purchase here (Canada), it is a legally binding contract. If the buyer or seller pull out without just cause (like entertaining higher offers), there is a financial penalty to pay, whether from a deposit on the purchase or suing in a court of law.

 

Allowing the seller to continue to market the property after an agreement has been reached is absolute insanity.

It’s what happens when you let the right wing run wild. It’s an unregulated mess. When you’re in the midst of buying yours just constantly terrified of wasting money because there’s so many dickheads involved. The leasehold rules here are also absolutely laughable. It’s corrupt from top to bottom.

[JagSquared]

When I bought we understood it to be that you had the basic survey, which was the minimum as it gives the lender the confidence that the building is worth the mortgage, the homebuyers, which was the next level up and they will go around the house and list anything that they see as a potential issue and then finally you also had the structural survey, where the surveyor literally digs around every nook and cranny and gets an expert view on any major issues.

 

It’s all subjective I think but I’m surprised that you’re saying the structural survey is only 50 quid more. We went for the homebuyers and it come back with a few issues that were easily ironed out. It was things like leaking radiators, some mould and an outstanding certificate which I think was for the boiler. It cost us 400 quid for the survey.

 

My friends paid for the structural survey which cost them about 1600 quid I think as they had some major worries about the roof. It came back that they were right. It would cost around 10k to fix on a 180k house. They asked for the money off and the owner refused so they pulled out. It cost them the 1600 quid which was obviously painful but it did save them in the long run. It’s all a risk really and how much your willing to pay for it. I’d maybe ask them what their structural survey entails and why it’s so cheap.

I might be wrong but I don’t think they really do look around every knock and cranny it’s just a bit more detailed but they are all caveated to fuck to avoid blame. Better to get a builder you trust to look around.

[Oh Buoy]

When I bought we understood it to be that you had the basic survey, which was the minimum as it gives the lender the confidence that the building is worth the mortgage, the homebuyers, which was the next level up and they will go around the house and list anything that they see as a potential issue and then finally you also had the structural survey, where the surveyor literally digs around every nook and cranny and gets an expert view on any major issues.

 

It’s all subjective I think but I’m surprised that you’re saying the structural survey is only 50 quid more. We went for the homebuyers and it come back with a few issues that were easily ironed out. It was things like leaking radiators, some mould and an outstanding certificate which I think was for the boiler. It cost us 400 quid for the survey.

 

My friends paid for the structural survey which cost them about 1600 quid I think as they had some major worries about the roof. It came back that they were right. It would cost around 10k to fix on a 180k house. They asked for the money off and the owner refused so they pulled out. It cost them the 1600 quid which was obviously painful but it did save them in the long run. It’s all a risk really and how much your willing to pay for it. I’d maybe ask them what their structural survey entails and why it’s so cheap.

 

Yeah, there are effectively 3 types of surveys in addition to a mortgage valuation survey.

 

Mortgage Valuation: Convinces property is worth the mortgage.

Condition report: Basic level survey. £200-300.

Homebuyers: Points out all the required work and minor issues on a 3/2/1 scoring system. £400-600.

Full Structual: Looks in a little more detail and is used for houses over 100 years old or in poor state of repair (5 point scoring system). £500-800.

 

The majority of sales now have the mortgage valuation followed by an independant homebuyers (some do this with their lender but I'd rather get someone who doesn't have interest in the property to review).

[The Guest]

I might be wrong but I don’t think they really do look around every knock and cranny it’s just a bit more detailed but they are all caveated to fuck to avoid blame. Better to get a builder you trust to look around.

It’s caveated to say “there may be other things they we haven’t picked up on so you can’t hold us to it” but they clearly do go and look at the house in depth. Our homebuyers survey was fairly detailed and that was the middle range one but the things they found were things you could see on the surface when you know you’re looking for them.

 

The structural survey my mate got was like a fucking novel. They went into the problem with the roof and the specifics to get it fixed. They also explained every other issue in the house, going into a lot more detail than our did. Mine was built in 1990 so I think we chose the right option.

[redheart]

I would not touch the property market with a bargepole at the moment.

 

Its due a massive correction in the next 12 months

[JagSquared]

It’s caveated to say “there may be other things they we haven’t picked up on so you can’t hold us to it” but they clearly do go and look at the house in depth. Our homebuyers survey was fairly detailed and that was the middle range one but the things they found were things you could see on the surface when you know you’re looking for them.

 

The structural survey my mate got was like a fucking novel. They went into the problem with the roof and the specifics to get it fixed. They also explained every other issue in the house, going into a lot more detail than our did. Mine was built in 1990 so I think we chose the right option.

Fair enough I had a home buyers report on our last move and I honestly felt it was like a waste of time. It’s only from the 70s so wasn’t a need for structural survey. I guess theres an element of the company you use. On that front never use countrywide bunch of inept bastards they are.

 

Also people have been saying the market is due for a correction for a while now and fair enough it might be but if you can afford the house you have seen even if there is a drop in values and rates rise further and aren’t planning to move for a reasonable amount of time there’s an argument to do it. The value of the property only means something when you are looking to sell.

[Oh Buoy]

I would not touch the property market with a bargepole at the moment.

 

Its due a massive correction in the next 12 months

 

I posted about this on the previous page (re: Financial Crisis and it's impact on the housing market):

 

I've been reading a little into this and I'm not too sure it'll have much difference from here until October. 

 

In 2005, the average house price in the UK was £157k.

By 2006, 168k. 2007, and the pre-crisis peak, it had risen to £186k. 

2008, 181k, and at the depth of the crisis, 2009, it had fallen back to £159.5k.

 

Financial crisis: Pre-crisis: +29k, Mid: -5k, Post: -21.5k. 

 

2010, 171.6k;

2011, 167.7k; 

2012, 170k; 

2013, 172.6k;

2014, 187k;

2015, 200k;

 

Overall increase: 40.5k over 6 years / 6.75k a year.

 

2016, 215k (Brexit Vote)

2017, £221k. Change Since Vote: +6k

Today, 227k. CSV: +12k 

 

With the average yearly increase, it doesn't seem to have impacted house prices much.

 

At this moment it's not possible to see where Brexit ends but if we base it on the financial crisis, we're on the climb but not at the peak yet. 

 

Figures from: http://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ukhpi/browse?from=2005-06-01&location=http%3A%2F%2Flandregistry.data.gov.uk%2Fid%2Fregion%2Funited-kingdom&to=2018-06-01

 

Looking at the figures, what we've currently agreed and what our valuations have come back as - we've got a good price.

 

With regards to the mortgage, it's about what we're paying for rent at the moment so little change there too.

 

Fair enough I had a home buyers report on our last move and I honestly felt it was like a waste of time. It’s only from the 70s so wasn’t a need for structural survey. I guess theres an element of the company you use. On that front never use countrywide bunch of inept bastards they are.

 

Also people have been saying the market is due for a correction for a while now and fair enough it might be but if you can afford the house you have seen even if there is a drop in values and rates rise further and aren’t planning to move for a reasonable amount of time there’s an argument to do it. The value of the property only means something when you are looking to sell.

 

I have samples of both reports and if I'm honest, the stuff that is in the full structure survey is really basic (e.g. "Garden fences need replacing, speak with solicitor about boundary concerns" etc).

[mattyq]

I would not touch the property market with a bargepole at the moment.

 

Its due a massive correction in the next 12 months

I've thought the same for at least the last 5 years and it keeps on going up

We are due a crash and if Brexit happens and is as bad as expected that could well be that

But... you can't live your life like that and if you regard your house as somewhere to live rather than an investment vehicle you'll be ok 

[redheart]

https://www.nationwide.co.uk/about/house-price-index/headlines

 

Biggest monthly drop since 2012. And 37% of this study was on the help to buy scheme,

 

Without that scam the market would be in absolute freefall

[Ne Moe Imya]

Due to some issues with our eldest's health, we've moved out of Russia and back to the US (where the missus is from).

 

We originally came back last August to get him tested for some things, but now that it's clear we need to be here for a while, we're looking for a house.

 

I regret to report that I'm every bit as much a "spreadsheet freak" when it comes to looking at houses as I am when it comes to looking at **llers. We have done pretty well at keeping emotion out of it and just looking dispassionately at houses, listing pros and cons, and making what the Americans call "lowball offer" after lowball offer.

 

Our estate agent probably wants to shoot me, although he pretends to be nice as he's due a commission whenever we finally pull the trigger. We have been to at least 25 houses, made a formal offer on 7 or 8 (mostly well below asking price, on the off-chance they come down).

 

We are fairly close to actually buying, now - we've signed a contract for the second time and had the home inspection (what I think is called the "independent homebuyers survey" in the UK?) today. The first time we were under contract the inspector found a roof leak and recommended that the entire roof be replaced. The seller refused so we walked away (now they have to disclose an active leak to all potential buyers by law, so good luck to them!).

 

The whole process is stressful as anything. Today's inspection went better - some things are wrong, but the seller is being reasonable and seems willing to fix most of it. Hopefully in a month or so we'll be in a new house (or rather, we'll be working on renovations in a new house - we're buying it cheap and doing some work to it removing a wall, etc.).

[TheHowieLama]

On 14/07/2018 at 07:01, Seasons said:

We've just been gazumped. 

 

Two pertinent questions:

 

Is there a letter box?

 

Do you have a dog?

[TheHowieLama]

8 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

back to the US

What town are you looking in?

[Ne Moe Imya]

4 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

What town are you looking in?

Just south of Tampa, FL.

 

Amazing weather so far this winter, but it's making me scared about how hot the summer is going to be.