So, world war three

[VladimirIlyich]

 

 

 

 

Communism tends not to work because it takes power from the many and concentrates it in the hands of the few.

How is this any different from now?

 

 

It seems all systems fail due to greed and mismanagement,all except for the current one which the wealthy elite in Washington and London won't allow to fail.

 

 

 

 

[dennis tooth]

A great argument for communism is that is completely incompatible with human nature? What?

Its still more popular than lib dems.

[Arl arse]

Who plans WW3 on a fuckin leap year?

It's got to be a woman hasn't it, or is that marriage? I always get those two mixed up.

[Neil G]

I don't think I ever claimed that anyone here advocated outright socialism.  In fact I'm certain I didn't.

My apologies then, I inferred you did from your referencing the forum's views at the start of your post.

[stringvest]

I had no idea they were all based in Kirkby.

 

Kirkby's already been nuked several times, surely?

[stringvest]

Was in Venezuela when Chavez first got elected

Have to say I didn't really notice it as I was busy enjoying the country's, err, charms, shall we say

 

lucky lucky bastard

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

They nationalised the means of production. Therefore, socialism. It worked about as well as it ever has. How more thorough does your analysis need to be?

Well, more than two sentenced would be a good place to start.

[Section_31]

A great argument for communism is that is completely incompatible with human nature? What?

How so? If you mean people are self interested, surely that self interest would see them rather live in Atlee's Britain rather than Thatcher's one. Surely the only people who'd prefer the latter are those who want to hoover up everybody else's wealth and keep it for themselves, using the means of propaganda they all own to make the people who are being fucked up the arse want to apply their own petroleum jelly.

 

When I have a choice between a final salary pension scheme and an ER department where I can get seen while I'm still in my 30s, or a Britain where virtually everyone I know is one missed payday away from living on the streets, I know which one the self interested part of me wants.

[Boss]

How so? If you mean people are self interested, surely that self interest would see them rather live in Atlee's Britain rather than Thatcher's one. Surely the only people who'd prefer the latter are those who want to hoover up everybody else's wealth and keep it for themselves, using the means of propaganda they all own to make the people who are being fucked up the arse want to apply their own petroleum jelly.

 

When I have a choice between a final salary pension scheme and an ER department where I can get seen while I'm still in my 30s, or a Britain where virtually everyone I know is one missed payday away from living on the streets, I know which one the self interested part of me wants.

 

That's not communism though, that's socialism. 

[Section_31]

A lot of the spiel about state control being bad is pure neo liberal propaganda anyway.

 

Reagan, a bona-fide retard and stooge, giving it the 'government is the problem!' Speech, that is of course when it's not bailing out epoch-defining clusterfucks made by the private sector, with FDR's new deal and in 2008.

 

Britain survived the war through central planning, from food production to weapons research, it was all controlled and directed by powerful ministries in such a top-down fashion the likes of which would have made North Korea blush.

 

Even in the 70s we were leading the way technologically with state sponsored projects like Concorde, while NHS immunisation programmes wiped out centuries-old childhood diseases.

 

And say what you want about the Soviet Union, but Communism transformed a feudal society into an industrial powerhouse that destroyed the Nazis.

[dennis tooth]

The idea of self interest itself is capitalist propaganda, there is no self. Theres millions of genetically distinct creatures that keep me alive determine my mood intelligence when to eat what to eat etc and live and infest me themselves living and dying and i am just part of the sum of that. Its very simple.

[Stu Monty]

Are you claiming that real world conditions are irrelevant where the merit or otherwise of an idea is concerned?

 

I would also question this idea that Venezuela, and the other 358 attempts at socialism, all failed because the evil capitalists wouldn't allow it to succeed.

 

I would suggest that all attempts to undermine the liberty of the individual are doomed to failure, and history would appear to bear that out.

 

If you genuinely believe some of the things you throw out there then you're far less bright than I ever imagined. 

 

Actually read what you type back to yourself. It's just such fucking woefully thought out garbage. 

 

All history bears out is that attempts to undermine the liberty of the individual are continually successful and continually shift shape whenever one form of it hits a cul-de-sac. What fucking history are you reading? It's not the history of this planet, that's for sure. That's before you once again have to have it explained to you how being given free healthcare is quite liberating whilst being as free as your empty wallet allows you to be often isn't.

 

Never mind. We'll put socialism in the pile with the values of the Lib Dems as being of no worth as they aren't the defining values of our age, hence are shite. And we'll just call it a day at that and you can happily carry on banging the drum for ideas totally rejected be the population and ignoring the ironic clangs that echo through every post. 

[Stu Monty]

The idea of self interest itself is capitalist propaganda, there is no self. Theres millions of genetically distinct creatures that keep me alive determine my mood intelligence when to eat what to eat etc and live and infest me themselves living and dying and i am just part of the sum of that. Its very simple.

 

And if they don't do it well enough to pass on your DNA, they cease to exist. 

 

So the ones that function in their own self-interest, through competition or co-operation, continue into the next round. The one's that don't, don't.

 

Very simple.

 

You seem to feel self-interest is a thought process. It isn't. It's present in a jar of bacteria.

[dennis tooth]

Back and bang on form comrad but this battle cannot be won for you. There is no evidence of self interest then what you are doing is putting a spin on what is clearly at the very least a two way process between something and ignoring all outliers. Clearly co operation is by your own definition a bigger driving process if that even occurs at all. Physics knows no self interest. Could peadophile dawkins unprovable claims based on flimsy paper get you to the moon?

[Jose Jones]

And if they don't do it well enough to pass on your DNA, they cease to exist.

 

So the ones that function in their own self-interest, through competition or co-operation, continue into the next round. The one's that don't, don't.

 

Very simple.

 

You seem to feel self-interest is a thought process. It isn't. It's present in a jar of bacteria.

True at the basic level of course, but humans have also evolved brains with the power of independent thought.

[TheHowieLama]

Is this thing gonna go off or not Den?

[Jairzinho]

True at the basic level of course, but humans have also evolved brains with the power of independent thought.

 

Not many.

[TheHowieLama]

Yeah, what he said.

[Arl arse]

Yeah, what he said.

I agree.

[Rico1304]

Back and bang on form comrad but this battle cannot be won for you. There is no evidence of self interest then what you are doing is putting a spin on what is clearly at the very least a two way process between something and ignoring all outliers. Clearly co operation is by your own definition a bigger driving process if that even occurs at all. Physics knows no self interest. Could peadophile dawkins unprovable claims based on flimsy paper get you to the moon?

Medic!!!!

[Hades]

True at the basic level of course, but humans have also evolved brains with the power of independent thought.

 

Read Thinking, Fast and Slow by Nobel Prize winner Daniel Kahneman. We are very much not in control of our 'fast' mode of thinking, we are only in control of our 'slow' mode of thinking, which is much harder and is limited by working memory. It's been researched that professional athletes do things mostly without thinking, and justify the reasoning post-hoc.

[dennis tooth]

And if they don't do it well enough to pass on your DNA, they cease to exist. 

 

So the ones that function in their own self-interest, through competition or co-operation, continue into the next round. The one's that don't, don't.

 

Very simple.

 

You seem to feel self-interest is a thought process. It isn't. It's present in a jar of bacteria.

Who decides the self interest of billions of fused organisms whose interests dont all line up equally? You could state it is selfs interest rather more accurate descriptive and opens up the can of worms you are trying to keep the lid on. Organisms can act in self interest, or co operation or self destruction or mutual destruction and other variants indeed we see living things do this all the time, you are applying a catch all here so simplistic it doesnt bear scrutiny. In fact splitting your genes with your reproductive partner is an act of self destruction, since your particular dna will never reoccur wholly again and all you are doing is introducing new life that is not your own but which will compete with who. Self interest cannot exist in nature which does not recognise this concept which is artificial and drives nothing, since it would require millions of different dna inside a person to be aware of each other and in agreement on a level that strings of proteins must have magical powers.

Also nothing passes its dna on in the manner you describe. except clones and clones are uncommon in nature.

[Stu Monty]

True at the basic level of course, but humans have also evolved brains with the power of independent thought.

 

So have chimps, meerkats and thousands of other organisms. The ones that independently think things that aren't in the interest of their DNA, and act on them, still die off. We are not apart from nature no matter how much we'd like to think we are. We are clever apes. 

[dennis tooth]

Ironically, dawkins theory excludes gays more than any religious text.

[Strontium]

All history bears out is that attempts to undermine the liberty of the individual are continually successful and continually shift shape whenever one form of it hits a cul-de-sac. What fucking history are you reading? It's not the history of this planet, that's for sure. That's before you once again have to have it explained to you how being given free healthcare is quite liberating whilst being as free as your empty wallet allows you to be often isn't.

 

Anyone with a cursory appreciation of the history of the world should be fully aware that ideologies like feudalism and Nazism have been killed off, and communism and Islamofascism are on the same path. The last thousand years of human history have seen a fairly consistent growth in human rights and freedoms, to the extent that they are now legalising pot in America, of all places.

 

And why would you need to explain my own arguments to me? How utterly bizarre.