Inequality

[AngryOfTuebrook]

What the fuck are you on? I'm struggling like fuck here, who mentioned going back in time...you...who mentioned fucking slavery....you. Your point is shite and you are all over the place.

 

All businesses have to operate inside the law, that's the fucking reality of it. Applying morals is wank because your morals, my morals and your Aunty Edith's morals all differ so, the only fucking answer is they all act within the law. What's so fucking hard about that? If society finds that law needs changing then it's changed - like sex discrimination, race equality etc. Now a company might be progressive and adapt quicker but it doesn't mean all the others are cunts.

I'll help.

 

You said companies can do whatever they want as long as it's legal.  That is a clear abdication of any moral code.  If you really believe that, you are an amoral turd.

[Rico1304]

Classic "I'm alright Jack" perspective from Rico, this.

what are you talking about?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Ok here goes. What is it you do for a living?

Nothing relevant to this discussion.

 

I do read books, though, and I also sometimes think.  Try it.

[Stu Monty]

I start a business, decide I believe marriage is sacrosanct so I won't employ a divorced person. My morals, fuck you and your morals.

Bizarre. You should meet religious thread Rico. He's been making moral judgements on you for years now.

[Rico1304]

I'll help.

 

You said companies can do whatever they want as long as it's legal. That is a clear abdication of any moral code. If you really believe that, you are an amoral turd.

Oh gosh, next thing you'll be reminding me how clever you are and how thick I am.

 

They can, face it, they can do anything they want. I hate to break it to you. Do you want a moral business police? Who's moral code do we use?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

All businesses have to operate inside the law, that's the fucking reality of it. Applying morals is wank because your morals, my morals and your Aunty Edith's morals all differ so, the only fucking answer is they all act within the law. What's so fucking hard about that? If society finds that law needs changing then it's changed - like sex discrimination, race equality etc. Now a company might be progressive and adapt quicker but it doesn't mean all the others are cunts.

Also... not so.  It'd be nice if it were true, but it isn't.  Whether businesses operate within the law is a business decision; they weigh the risk of getting caught against the costs of compliance.  Just ask VW (and a million other examples).

[Rico1304]

Also... not so. It'd be nice if it were true, but it isn't. Whether businesses operate within the law is a business decision; they weigh the risk of getting caught against the costs of compliance. Just ask VW (and a million other examples).

They absolutely HAVE TO; they chose not to. There's a huge difference coco

[Stu Monty]

Oh gosh, next thing you'll be reminding me how clever you are and how thick I am.

 

They can, face it, they can do anything they want. I hate to break it to you. Do you want a moral business police? Who's moral code do we use?

YOU USE YOUR OWN!

 

LIKE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT RELIGION.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Oh gosh, next thing you'll be reminding me how clever you are and how thick I am.

 

They can, face it, they can do anything they want. I hate to break it to you. Do you want a moral business police? Who's moral code do we use?

Anyone's.  Mine. Yours.  

 

Do you have one?  Or are you the sort of amoral turd who is genuinely so supine and cowardly as to just leave the regulation of business conduct to whatever loopholes there are in the law (and then walk away whistling a happy tune about how all businesses stick to the law and how customers can vote with their feet)?

[Rico1304]

Bizarre. You should meet religious thread Rico. He's been making moral judgements on you for years now.

What? That's what I'm pointing out - you can't use morals you've got to use the fucking LAW!!!

[Rico1304]

Anyone's. Mine. Yours.

 

Do you have one? Or are you the sort of amoral turd who is genuinely so supine and cowardly as to just leave the regulation of business conduct to whatever loopholes there are in the law (and then walk away whistling a happy tune about how all businesses stick to the law and how customers can vote with their feet)?

Ok, we'll use mine. I'm a member of the Westboro Baptist church. Do you think the world is a better place than if we used the law?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

They absolutely HAVE TO; they chose not to. There's a huge difference coco

It's the difference between theory and reality.

 

You said

All businesses have to operate inside the law, that's the fucking reality of it.

 

That's not really the reality, though, is it?  In theory they have to operate inside the law - the fucking reality of it is that on many, many occasions, businesses choose not to.

[Rico1304]

YOU USE YOUR OWN!

 

LIKE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT RELIGION.

So a business uses the CEOs? Or the main shareholder? Or the consensus of all shareholders....or the law.

[Rico1304]

It's the difference between theory and reality.

 

You said

All businesses have to operate inside the law, that's the fucking reality of it.

 

That's not really the reality, though, is it? In theory they have to operate inside the law - the fucking reality of it is that on many, many occasions, businesses choose not to.

What? They have to, there are penalties if they don't.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

So a business uses the CEOs? Or the main shareholder? Or the consensus of all shareholders....or the law.

Probably all 4, in that order of priority.

[Stu Monty]

What? That's what I'm pointing out - you can't use morals you've got to use the fucking LAW!!!

You can't use morals to do what? Make moral judgements and inform your opinions?

 

We were having a conversation based on moral judgements of pay inequality and you came in telling people it was none of their business!

 

Businesses can do whatever they want, and people will make a moral judgement on that. You're telling people they can't, totally in contravention of your stance on religion, where you're happy to try and (totally justifiably) force your morals on a totally legal practice.

[Stu Monty]

So a business uses the CEOs? Or the main shareholder? Or the consensus of all shareholders....or the law.

They all use their own.

 

And then everyone else has to make their own moral judgement on what they do.

 

Like when you judge religions, and decide that's your business. Which it totally is.

[Rico1304]

Probably all 4, in that order of priority.

Good point - your top 3 can be changed in a day by a bloke with money. He could be a morally repugnant man taking over a business of integrity. That business still has to operate within the law.

[Rico1304]

You can't use morals to do what? Make moral judgements and inform your opinions?

 

We were having a conversation based on moral judgements of pay inequality and you came in telling people it was none of their business!

 

Businesses can do whatever they want, and people will make a moral judgement on that. You're telling people they can't, totally in contravention of your stance on religion, where you're happy to try and (totally justifiably) force your morals on a totally legal practice.

What? I said that every business has customers who can make judgements on that business. They can vote with their feet.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

What? They have to, there are penalties if they don't.

There are penalties if they get caught.  There is always a chance they won't get caught.

 

There are often costs to actually operating within the law.  So businesses make cost/benefit decisions on whether or not to comply with the law.  For example, there are flagrant violations of health & safety laws on UK construction sites every working day of the year.  Most of the time the companies get away with it (not least because of the illegal blacklists of trade unionists) but sometimes a worker will get injured or killed and the company may get fined.  

 

Of course, there's always a chance that they can wriggle out of the fine, because there's a loophole by which they can argue that what they were doing was legal.  This is the point at which sentient humans with an active conscience and a moral compass say "I don't care whether you wormed your way out of that, that poor fucker is injured or dead because of your actions."  Your posts so far suggest that you'd be happy to shrug and walk away from this obvious injustice; this is why you've been getting grief. 

 

If companies seriously took the attitude that laws were there to be adhered to, then deaths and injuries at work would be rare as rocking-horse shit.

 

Companies adhere to one law - that they must maximise profit.  Everything else is a means to an end.

[Stu Monty]

What? I said that every business has customers who can make judgements on that business. They can vote with their feet.

You said that it's nobody else's business what they do.

 

I presume you accept now that is not a sensible way to approach the issue.

 

You don't buy the Sun, it still sells. You still have every right to make a moral judgement on them and put it forward. Which is what people were doing when you, for some reason, took issue.

[Rico1304]

There are penalties if they get caught. There is always a chance they won't get caught.

 

There are often costs to actually operating within the law. So businesses make cost/benefit decisions on whether or not to comply with the law. For example, there are flagrant violations of health & safety laws on UK construction sites every working day of the year. Most of the time the companies get away with it (not least because of the illegal blacklists of trade unionists) but sometimes a worker will get injured or killed and the company may get fined.

 

Of course, there's always a chance that they can wriggle out of the fine, because there's a loophole by which they can argue that what they were doing was legal. This is the point at which sentient humans with an active conscience and a moral compass say "I don't care whether you wormed your way out of that, that poor fucker is injured or dead because of your actions." Your posts so far suggest that you'd be happy to shrug and walk away from this obvious injustice; this is why you've been getting grief.

 

If companies seriously took the attitude that laws were there to be adhered to, then deaths and injuries at work would be rare as rocking-horse shit.

 

Companies adhere to one law - that they must maximise profit. Everything else is a means to an end.

So I'm right then, thanks.

[Rico1304]

And you've still not answered the question Angry.

 

Come on, you can do it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

What question?

[Rico1304]

What question?

Christ, I think we've ruled out Memory Man.

 

What is it you do?