Benn or Eubank?

[KMD7]

43 minutes ago, Dave D said:

Such a good time for boxing. I remember watching Eubank and Benn exchange words on a chat show only to be interrupted by some American mouthpiece and Micky Rourke!

 

 

James Toney was a serious dude. Great fighter.

[Dave D]

19 minutes ago, KMD7 said:

 

James Toney was a serious dude. Great fighter.

Don’t think he ever fought either of them in the end?

[KMD7]

9 minutes ago, Dave D said:

Don’t think he ever fought either of them in the end?

 

No mate. It's a shame it never happened. Same for RJJ. 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

1 hour ago, Dave D said:

Such a good time for boxing. I remember watching Eubank and Benn exchange words on a chat show only to be interrupted by some American mouthpiece and Micky Rourke!

 

Grand linking and sharing that Dave.

I remember that night on the telly roughly the only time Eubank and Benn agreed on anything.

Mind, a peak James Toney at 168 would've been a great fight with either of them.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

@KMD7

Fights never happened comrade, I think mainly due to Toney being a loose cannon and his weight being everywhere after the Roy Jones fight.

Questions then....

168 Toney vs Benn. 168 Toney vs Eubank,where's your money at?

I did always wonder why Toney didn't fight Roy Jones again at a higher weight.

Possibly that neither of them wanted the fight at 175 or Toney was moving through the weights quickly.

Toney was a nasty, nasty man.

[VladimirIlyich]

Toney actually won the heavyweight title but was stripped of it after a failed drugs test. Top fighter but had no discipline outside the ring. Not sure if Don King was his manager,promoter or both at some stage.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

If somebody asked me the question...which top level fighter cudda/shudda/wudda and was his own worst enemy to keep himself from being talked of as a prime mover in the era of 160-190 in the 1990s/2000's it's James Toney.

It seems that he just didn't like training or taking his job seriously.

No dedication, just turned up heavier and heavier through the weight yet still beat very good fighters.

[VladimirIlyich]

3 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

If somebody asked me the question...which top level fighter cudda/shudda/wudda and was his own worst enemy to keep himself from being talked of as a prime mover in the era of 160-190 in the 1990s/2000's it's James Toney.

It seems that he just didn't like training or taking his job seriously.

No dedication, just turned up heavier and heavier through the weight yet still beat very good fighters.

Apparently he was 205 lbs while playing Grid Iron in College and had to shed about 40 lbs to go into Boxing at the division he began at. 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

2 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Apparently he was 205 lbs while playing Grid Iron in College and had to shed about 40 lbs to go into Boxing at the division he began at. 

And yet he won a world title at 160 and 168  and then KO'd Jirov at Cruiserweight.

Which suggests that he COULD make the weight, but his lack of dedication to training and the sport makes him a fighter that cudda/shudda but through his own shortcomings didn't.

Toney could've been talked about in the same conversation as Hearns, Leonard and Jones.

[VladimirIlyich]

3 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

And yet he won a world title at 160 and 168  and then KO'd Jirov at Cruiserweight.

Which suggests that he COULD make the weight, but his lack of dedication to training and the sport makes him a fighter that cudda/shudda but through his own shortcomings didn't.

Toney could've been talked about in the same conversation as Hearns, Leonard and Jones.

I'm not excusing him but he had a helluva upbringing and it was no surprise that discipline wasn't a priority for him.

[KMD7]

1 hour ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

@KMD7

Fights never happened comrade, I think mainly due to Toney being a loose cannon and his weight being everywhere after the Roy Jones fight.

Questions then....

168 Toney vs Benn. 168 Toney vs Eubank,where's your money at?

I did always wonder why Toney didn't fight Roy Jones again at a higher weight.

Possibly that neither of them wanted the fight at 175 or Toney was moving through the weights quickly.

Toney was a nasty, nasty man.

 

Toney all day every day mate. A prime focused Toney had it all. As much as I love Eubanks and Benn Toney had too much for either of them imo.

 

Pity him and RJJ didn't mix it again. Wasn't Toney meant to be weight drained for their first fight? Can't remember the details exactly. Still not too many were beating Jones anyway at that time 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

12 minutes ago, KMD7 said:

 

Toney all day every day mate. A prime focused Toney had it all. As much as I love Eubanks and Benn Toney had too much for either of them imo.

 

Pity him and RJJ didn't mix it again. Wasn't Toney meant to be weight drained for their first fight? Can't remember the details exactly. Still not too many were beating Jones anyway at that time 

Yeah, that was it mate, I think Toney came in at over light heavy after the weigh in.

I'm not sure why a rematch didn't happen,  even when RJJ moved up to Light Heavy. Chances are Toney was lacking dedication as he lost to Montell Griffin at 175.

I think it was just that Roy had the style to make him miss and look average. 

It took RJJ a few fights to really impose himself at 175, but think the outcome would've been the same.

BUT, Toney actually beat some really good fighters at a higher weight, like Hembrick, Jirov, Peter and an old Holyfield, which shows that, as I said earlier he had all the talent, timing and punch to carry up in weight.

[Bjornebye]

This is a superb watch 

 

 

 

 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

23 minutes ago, KMD7 said:

 

Toney all day every day mate. A prime focused Toney had it all. As much as I love Eubanks and Benn Toney had too much for either of them imo.

 

Pity him and RJJ didn't mix it again. Wasn't Toney meant to be weight drained for their first fight? Can't remember the details exactly. Still not too many were beating Jones anyway at that time 

Plus, in answer, when that clip that @Dave D posted about Toney vs Benn or Eubank, I'd take Toney 7/3over both of them

[Toxteth O'Grady]

3 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

This is a superb watch 

 

 

 

 

Good linking mate, will watch that.

I've met a few of those lads. 

Richie Woodhall, a smashing fella. 

His Dad Len was also a lovely man and did lots to support and help deprived kids into both boxing and a better path in life.

[Bjornebye]

23 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

Good linking mate, will watch that.

I've met a few of those lads. 

Richie Woodhall, a smashing fella. 

His Dad Len was also a lovely man and did lots to support and help deprived kids into both boxing and a better path in life.

It’s a great watch. Woodhall is sound as fuck 

[Dave D]

Didn’t know a huge amount about Toney but looks as though he fought at several weights.

 

What end of the middleweight scale weight wise we’re Benn and Eubank?

 

Think Toney would have probably squeezed in at the top end

[Remmie]

That Jirov fight was a belter and one of very few fights that could be caught on terrestrial TV at the time.

 

That was some era at the weight: Jones jnr, Toney, McClelland, Jackson, Eubank, Watson and Benn. Collins and Calzaghe came along towards the end of it too.

 

Jones jnr was the best of the bunch in my opinion.

[Bjornebye]

18 minutes ago, Remmie said:

That Jirov fight was a belter and one of very few fights that could be caught on terrestrial TV at the time.

 

That was some era at the weight: Jones jnr, Toney, McClelland, Jackson, Eubank, Watson and Benn. Collins and Calzaghe came along towards the end of it too.

 

Jones jnr was the best of the bunch in my opinion.

Calzaghe over Jones just. 
 

Easily the best British boxer in my opinion. You can fly a Lewis flag but he’s Canadian. 

[Dave D]

22 minutes ago, Remmie said:

That Jirov fight was a belter and one of very few fights that could be caught on terrestrial TV at the time.

 

That was some era at the weight: Jones jnr, Toney, McClelland, Jackson, Eubank, Watson and Benn. Collins and Calzaghe came along towards the end of it too.

 

Jones jnr was the best of the bunch in my opinion.

It was great when it was all Terrestrial Tv on a Saturday Night.

 

Another fighter I remember everyone watching on a Saturday night around that time, maybe slightly before and a different weight was Lloyd Honeyghan

[Remmie]

2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Calzaghe over Jones just. 
 

Easily the best British boxer in my opinion. You can fly a Lewis flag but he’s Canadian. 

Calzaghe never lost so it's a decent shout but peak Jones was phenomenal. Calzaghe proved himself time and again, but maybe didn't have enough true grudge matches, not his fault I don't think, just the era he was in. 

 

I think Lewis sees himself as having three nationalities - British, Canadian and Jamaican. Ultimately he fought mostly under the British flag so that's good enough for me.

[Bjornebye]

14 minutes ago, Remmie said:

Calzaghe never lost so it's a decent shout but peak Jones was phenomenal. Calzaghe proved himself time and again, but maybe didn't have enough true grudge matches, not his fault I don't think, just the era he was in. 

 

I think Lewis sees himself as having three nationalities - British, Canadian and Jamaican. Ultimately he fought mostly under the British flag so that's good enough for me.

Lewis was superb. 

[sir roger]

5 hours ago, Dave D said:

It was great when it was all Terrestrial Tv on a Saturday Night.

 

Another fighter I remember everyone watching on a Saturday night around that time, maybe slightly before and a different weight was Lloyd Honeyghan

 

Very rare that a sporting event shocks you inordinately, but getting up and hearing on the radio that Lloyd had knocked out Donald Curry who was close to being no 1 pound for pound at the time,  in the US, was truly amazing.

[VladimirIlyich]

7 hours ago, Dave D said:

It was great when it was all Terrestrial Tv on a Saturday Night.

 

Another fighter I remember everyone watching on a Saturday night around that time, maybe slightly before and a different weight was Lloyd Honeyghan

Good fighter. Took the Welterweight title off Don Curry in Curry's own back yard. Massive upset.

[Kevin D]