Klopp's Tactics

[Pureblood]

First time I've negged Tony.  I thought someone had hacked his account.

[El Rojo]

Klopptics.

[magicrat]

The Aldi is rubbish.

 

 

Where else can you find a horse blanket, some fake weetabix a socket set and a tin of sardines

all in the same aisle ?

[Hades]

Klopptics.

 

You've gone and done it now.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Where else can you find a horse blanket, some fake weetabix a socket set and a tin of sardines

all in the same aisle ?

Lidl ?

[magicrat]

Lidl ?

 

They don't sell horse blankets. You fell right into the trap 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

They don't sell horse blankets. You fell right into the trap

 

Horse and Trap

[magicrat]

Horse and Trap

 

Exactly,  

[SlugTrail]

The Aldi is rubbish.

quite like aldi, used to shop in sainsburys my bill is less than half now and the quality in food has not dropped.

[VladimirIlyich]

Aldi is even mocked for being cheapo in Germany. Lidl is a step up from them.

[magicrat]

Aldi is even mocked for being cheapo in Germany. Lidl is a step up from them.

 

This comparison bears depressing similarities to our goalkeeping dilemma  

[INTORRESTING]

and both cb's and both companies speak German, hmmm

[Lario]

This guy is a United fan, but gives a more reasoned outlook on things than many of our own "fans".

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ken-early-strong-case-for-the-defence-of-jurgen-klopp-s-vision-1.3232398?mode=amp

 

Ken Early: Strong case for the defence of Jurgen Klopp’s vision Liverpool have a better chance of success if they keep taking the game to the opposition

 

Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp celebrates after the victory over Leicester City.

 

For Jurgen Klopp, watching Liverpool try to defend over the last couple of weeks must be a bit like being held captive by a sadist who has strapped you to a chair and placed a ticking time-bomb in your lap. Maybe the timer is set to go off before the final whistle, maybe not. You just have to wait and see.

 

At the King Power Stadium on Saturday evening, Leicester won a free-kick in the last minute of injury time and a touchline camera scuttled over to see how Klopp was taking it. The Liverpool manager broke the fourth wall, directing a hollow grin into the lens. Everyone knew what was coming next.

 

Except this time the fatalists were wrong. Liverpool defended the set-piece and won the match 3-2.

Afterwards, Klopp said: “We believe we are on a good way, but we are absolutely aware that we have to show it with results, so that everybody can see it.”

 

The last couple of weeks have seen many pundits suggest that Klopp doesn’t understand how to organise a defence. His remark about showing it with results showed that he does understand the English football audience. In England, hardly anybody cares about what actually happens out on the pitch. It’s much easier just to look at the result and base all your opinions on that.

 

It’s clear Liverpool have been letting in too many goals. Six games into the Premier League season they have already conceded 11. Only Crystal Palace, West Ham and Leicester have conceded more and those teams are all in the bottom five.

 

Yet those who claim that this proves Klopp can’t organise a defence have to explain how it is that such a poorly-organised team does such a good job of restricting their opponents’ opportunities to shoot at goal. Liverpool have allowed their opponents fewer shots than any other team except Manchester City.

That’s because Klopp, like Pep Guardiola, is one of those system managers who believes that the best way to defend is to play the game in the other team’s half, far away from your goal. And their systems appear to work, because City and Liverpool are also the two teams who have had most shots on their opponents’ goals.

 

And yet these system managers seldom get any credit for good defending. When the system works it means the other team has barely had a sight of goal; it just looks like they’ve played badly. Nobody applauds the tackles and saves you don’t need to make.

English football awards Good Defending Points for the sort of things the fans cheer; the spectacular saves, the last-ditch tackles, the thumping clearing headers. The fact that your players only have to do these things because you are failing to control the game further up the pitch seldom seems to occur to anybody.

 

Liverpool’s problem this season has been that when they do give up a chance, it has tended to be from point-blank range. They have allowed their opponents nine shots on goal from inside the six-yard box, conceding five goals. Only Bournemouth have allowed more shots from within six yards, and no team has conceded more from close range than Liverpool’s five.

Last season, Liverpool were better at preventing this sort of point-blank chance. They were giving them away at about half this season’s rate – allowing 26 shots from inside six yards over the course of the season. This compares well with the 22 allowed by Chelsea or the 25 allowed by Manchester United.

 

Liverpool did concede more goals from these chances: they let in 11 from 26 close-range shots, while Chelsea conceded just two and United seven. But that’s the difference a world-class goalkeeper like Thibaut Courtois or David de Gea can make.

 

Klopp has therefore already shown that he can organise a defence to a decent level, so unless he has mysteriously forgotten how to do it over the summer, the recent deterioration must have some other explanation. The most obvious is that Liverpool have been doing without two of their regular back four from last season, as Nathaniel Clyne is injured and James Milner has said he no longer wants to play at left-back.

 

There is another approach to defending, which is to drop deep and pull men back behind the ball. Klopp could do this and he would probably be praised for “tightening things up”, but it would also be the worst thing he could do. Liverpool have had managers like that before and their methods did not bring success.

 

Gerard Houllier and Rafael Benitez both spent six seasons at Anfield. Houllier used Dietmar Hamann just in front of a defence that often consisted of four centre-backs; his side kept six men behind the ball at all times.

Rafael Benitez had a more liberal attitude to full-backs crossing the halfway line, but he also liked to have two defensive midfielders in front of the defence. Houllier’s teams averaged 61 goals scored and 37 conceded per season, while Benitez’s averaged 62 scored and 30 conceded. Neither of them managed to win the league, because nobody ever wins the league scoring as few as 62 goals.

 

Klopp’s full season in charge of Liverpool saw them score 78 – their second highest total of the Premier League era – and concede 42. This is promising because the English league rewards high-scoring teams: 14 of 22 champions in the Premier League era have also been the division’s top scorers, but only nine out of 22 champions have had the meanest defence.

 

Liverpool have a better chance of success if they keep on taking the game to the opposition, rather than sitting back and hoping the game doesn’t happen to them.

[Reckoner]

 

Some decent points, but none of that article explains why we are so shit at defending set pieces.

[VladimirIlyich]

Some decent points, but none of that article explains why we are so shit at defending set pieces.

I think the part about 'world class goalkeepers' explains a fair part of that reason.

[Russ Atmosphere]

Some more stats on chances last season.

 

 

[joe_fishfish]

On the full backs do you see a problem with them being caught high all the time (moreno occasionally), I don't, I see them having problems with basic positioning and defending.  Reining them in won't solve that problem.

 

I also doubt an extra sitter would make much difference, from what I see we're rarely outnumbered, we usually have bodies, they're just busy fixing their hair/shitting themselves/falling asleep etc.

 

I agree mate, it works better having Moreno high up the pitch because he's actually alright at pressing. To be useful winning the ball back high up you need aggression, pace, stamina, and other team mates around you. You don't necessarily need any knowledge of positioning.

 

Using him to stop crosses and win one-on-ones against a winger in his own final third like a normal left back would be pointless. We know he's shite at doing that. Also keeping him high up the pitch and pressing hard means when he does fuck up it doesn't immediately lead to conceding a chance on goal.

[Russ Atmosphere]

Don't watch this.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0UdzTeHdNA

 

 

[Herp McDerp]

A lower win % than both the Moyesiah and LVG apparently.

[Rorschach08]

A lower win % than both the Moyesiah and LVG apparently.

Moyes and Van Gaal both started with a far superior squad.  Daft comparison.

[Grinch]

Some people need to wind their thoughts back to our last champions league campaign. Coming up against Bulgarian minnows and Basle and actually deserving fuck all from the games. That was shit management.

 

When youre creating bucketloads and giving away few chances at the other end then it's simply down to a need for better players and that ones on the board.

[Herp McDerp]

Moyes and Van Gaal both started with a far superior squad. Daft comparison.

Bullshit it is, Moyes was a fucking bum, he could have had 3 billion to spend and he’d still have been utterly useless. If the % figures are true it's fairly embarrassing regardless of of the gulf in spending/squad depth between the sides. Having said that, as with everything on the internet they could well be something dreamt up by a 50 year old manc sat in his underwear in mummy’s basement.

[3 Stacks]

This isn't a reaction to our poor run of results, but I think he's proving himself to be very inflexible tactically.

 

-It seems like he only wants to play one way, this 4-3-3 with a false 9 and inside forwards.

 

-A 2 man midfield seems out of the question, presumably because we have no midfielders who are solid enough defensively.

 

-We don't have a credible alternative to Firmino at the striker position, so we can't play two up front or give teams a different look.

 

-We can't play 3 at the back because we simply don't have the numbers or quality at centre back.

 

If we have success this season it will be because the players perfect this system. I don't see how the squad or Klopp is flexible enough to change anything. 

[skend04]

We are creating chances galore. There's fuck all wrong with the tactics. It's one or three key players. Fuck me. Even I'm pissed at the profligacy last night but when you miss 4 absolute sitters let's not bump the Klopp Tactics thread eh.

[Hades]

We are creating chances galore. There's fuck all wrong with the tactics. It's one or three key players. Fuck me. Even I'm pissed at the profligacy last night but when you miss 4 absolute sitters let's not bump the Klopp Tactics thread eh.

 

Absolute clowns. To think at one stage I thought this forum was more intelligent than other Liverpool forums.