Klopp's Tactics

[Curly]

I'm not sure how to feel, myself. The fact that two world class managers have joined the league, that Mourinho is spending big at United, that Arsenal are always a certainty for top 4 and that Spurs have seemingly gotten their act together worries me a little but then the fact that we have no European football could mean fewer injuries/more training time for Klopp/fresher players which could give us a big advantage.

Hopefully the last bit there will be right. If anyone can muster some bollocks out of them it's our jurgen. Just not sure even he can.

[Ginny]

Number 19 on its way lads ... ahem 

[an tha]

Number 19 on its way lads ... ahem

Kirkby here we come!

[Hades]

Decent analysis of the Burnley game here. Shit decision making, bad first touches. 

 

[Pureblood]

Decent analysis of the Burnley game here. Shit decision making, bad first touches. 

 

 

That can't be right at all.  It doesn't single out one player, call them a massive shithouse cunt and ask for Ancelotti to be instated.  

[Hades]

[Jockey]

Is this just to prove that you were against Klopp from the start? 

 

Because mistakes aside - 10 men against City, isn't a barometer of anything. 4th game of the season? Only someone who knows the square root of fuck all would even suggest that we know anything at this stage. 

 

This time last year, United and City were unbeaten, Chelsea were about to lose to us, and Arsenal at home. 

[El Rojo]

For me, mentality needs to be sorted out before tactics. Nobody stepped up after Mane's departure, to be very diplomatic.

 

The half-time substitution of our only other dangerous player on the day didn't give a great message to the others either. I appreciate that it was very unlikely that we'd get back in the game and can guess Klopp's reasoning, but it's not like it's April and Salah was running on empty. Big difference between a Tuesday and Wednesday European fixture too.

[Trumo]

For me, mentality needs to be sorted out before tactics. Nobody stepped up after Mane's departure, to be very diplomatic.

 

As a collective, this group of players are not used to dealing with that sort of adversity. Under Klopp, only Milner and Brad Smith had been sent off prior to Mane at the weekend. Those two went for second bookable offences. Milner's was at Palace when we were 1-0 down and we came back to win thanks to a stoppage-time penalty won and converted by Benteke. Smith saw red at Swansea when we were already 3-1 down in a game where Klopp selected a lot of second-string players ahead of an important Europa League tie. Last season, we didn't pick up a single red card.

[Bernard Diomede]

His substitutions are really starting to piss me off. They have been consistently shit for a long period of time now

[Section_31]

Occum's Razor. The squad isn't good enough, it hasn't been good enough for years - our problems are no more complicated than that. We've got about three good players and they're all wingers.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I'm not sure there's too much wrong with the tactics. Not going off tonight anyway.

 

We've limited a half decent Sevilla team to 3 attempts all game. Their goals came from individual errors, Lovren and Can for the first, Henderson being a bit too slow for the second.

 

We've also created a good few chances too. So, it's working going forward.

 

I'm mostly in agreement with Section. The tactics are not the main issue. It's the quality and/or mentality of some of the players.

 

But, a few things could change tactically in bigger games or when leading.

 

1) The shape of the midfield triangle. It's currently a 1-2 triangle. One sitter, Henderson, and 2 more advanced midfielders in Can and Wijnaldum. Not sure if we have the personnel for it currently, but we could be a bit sturdier by playing a 2-1 triangle when away or later on in games we're winning - 2 holders and 1 more advanced midfielder.

 

2) The full backs. They add to our attacking threat. And you can't have both, attacking full backs playing like wingers while the wide players come inside, but also expect them to not leave gaps. Do the full backs need to push on as high or as often as they do? Is that something we could look at.

 

3) The high line we hold for some dead ball crosses into the box. We only seem to do this late on. I don't like it. Granted, we shouldn't shit ourselves and hold a line right on top of the keeper but, with the line we sometimes hold, one good ball in behind it leaves us exposed and means we have to rely exclusively on the keeper claiming or punching the ball clear. Karius did this well once tonight. But, given our choice of keepers, with neither being particularly dominant in the air, I think it's a big risk to do this.

 

Just a few concerns for me tactically. But, I think it's definitely more a case of the players we have available to use rather than how they are being used.

[TheHowieLama]

The system expects the three at the back - 2 cb's and Hendo - to be able to contain. We seem to be a little too ready to make challenges - way too many times we are over eager and end up on the wrong side trying to nick/anticipate the next ball. That comes from the players hearing the message to press hard at all times.

[Ranxerox]

It's quality, not tactics. Set this same group up defensively and they'll still make the same stupid individual mistakes at the back, but they'll score less, finish 8th or below and be boring as fuck to watch.

 

What I don't get is why Klopp hasn't brought in more quality sooner.

[Mil-ing Around]

It's not so much tactics but more selection for me right now. You can't have Moreno (who is doing a bit better) and Klavan on your left hand side together. It's asking for trouble and that's what we got against city. You also can't have TAA and Salah on your right hand side, one is just a kid and the other can't defend for shit. Even a combination of Gomez and Salah is way to weak.

 

Having two area's of the pitch with obvious weakness is never going to end well and we are getting exposed there. Team's are focusing attacks there and these players lack the quality, experience and ability to defend these situations when they arise.

 

Last season we had Clyne/Mane on our right, who are both defensively quite strong. We had Milner/Coutinho on our left, again Coutinho would track back and Milner is good defensively.

 

Right now our team selection in the wide area's is exposing the centre backs and when those centre backs are Lovren and Klavan it's never going to end well. 

[thompsonsnose]

Whats our game plan when we muller a side for 45 minutes without scoring/killing the game off?

How do we control football matches?

PS We haven't controlled football matches, in the way i understand "control", since Rafa left.

I thought Klopp would address this. In this regard, he's as bad as the last bloke.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Best system with our current squad is still 4231 reverting to 451 when defending. For me if everyone was fit,

 

Mignolet

 

Clyne Matip Gomez Robertson

 

Can Milner

 

Salah Coutinho Mane

 

Firmino

 

Fullbacks main job to defend, 2 in midfield sit, top 4 do the damage. Those top four with a decent defence and midfield, decent not world beaters is good enough for any team.

Milner ? He will be more disciplined, experience will help him, that and being captain.

 

Just my take. Probably get snotted every game. What do I know.

[G Richards]

By and large tactics are fine. A few niggles with minor things, e.g. Substitutions, but tactics are fine.

 

Individual mistakes are killing us more than anything else. It will always be part of the game, but we seem to have a bit more of that than most, especially if we compare ourselves to the other teams trying to finish top four. Which leads me to this:

 

If we are committing more errors and that happens over a period of time, so it's not a blip, then the unavoidable conclusion is we lack that wee bit of quality in key areas.

 

The point has been hammered to death, but add VVD and Keita to this, and it improves, probably by a lot. We still might want to look at other areas beyond that, but those two players should change our prospects from fighting for top four to daring to look at a title challenge.

 

Tactics fine, largely.

Personnel not so much.

[Brownie]

By and large tactics are fine. A few niggles with minor things, e.g. Substitutions, but tactics are fine.

 

Individual mistakes are killing us more than anything else. It will always be part of the game, but we seem to have a bit more of that than most, especially if we compare ourselves to the other teams trying to finish top four. Which leads me to this:

 

If we are committing more errors and that happens over a period of time, so it's not a blip, then the unavoidable conclusion is we lack that wee bit of quality in key areas.

 

The point has been hammered to death, but add VVD and Keita to this, and it improves, probably by a lot. We still might want to look at other areas beyond that, but those two players should change our prospects from fighting for top four to daring to look at a title challenge.

 

Tactics fine, largely.

Personnel not so much.

Tactics fine, execution questionable due to a number potential reasons (personnel & training being the main ones).

[Jockey]

I'm struggling to see whether it is the same players making the same mistakes, or the team making the same mistakes. 

 

His views on the qualities of Lovren, Klvan aside - I understand he doesn't want a 'holding midfielder' certainly not all the time, but, in that case you have to question whether Henderson is good enough for the role. Having a 'Hamman' type of player as an option is surely something we should have considered when Lucas left? 

[Red Phoenix]

Dunno, but for me, he broke the rules and went 'attack plus'.

[Tony Moanero]

The Aldi is rubbish.

[Rotpeter]

It's not so much tactics but more selection for me right now. You can't have Moreno (who is doing a bit better) and Klavan on your left hand side together. It's asking for trouble and that's what we got against city. You also can't have TAA and Salah on your right hand side, one is just a kid and the other can't defend for shit. Even a combination of Gomez and Salah is way to weak.

 

Having two area's of the pitch with obvious weakness is never going to end well and we are getting exposed there. Team's are focusing attacks there and these players lack the quality, experience and ability to defend these situations when they arise.

 

Last season we had Clyne/Mane on our right, who are both defensively quite strong. We had Milner/Coutinho on our left, again Coutinho would track back and Milner is good defensively.

 

Right now our team selection in the wide area's is exposing the centre backs and when those centre backs are Lovren and Klavan it's never going to end well. 

 

Teams have been marching straight through the middle too, it's not just the flanks where we're vulnerable.  For all the stick Klavan gets, he's way ahead of Lovren right now (and should have been for a while IMO)

[Rotpeter]

I'm not sure there's too much wrong with the tactics. Not going off tonight anyway.

 

We've limited a half decent Sevilla team to 3 attempts all game. Their goals came from individual errors, Lovren and Can for the first, Henderson being a bit too slow for the second.

 

We've also created a good few chances too. So, it's working going forward.

 

I'm mostly in agreement with Section. The tactics are not the main issue. It's the quality and/or mentality of some of the players.

 

But, a few things could change tactically in bigger games or when leading.

 

1) The shape of the midfield triangle. It's currently a 1-2 triangle. One sitter, Henderson, and 2 more advanced midfielders in Can and Wijnaldum. Not sure if we have the personnel for it currently, but we could be a bit sturdier by playing a 2-1 triangle when away or later on in games we're winning - 2 holders and 1 more advanced midfielder.

 

2) The full backs. They add to our attacking threat. And you can't have both, attacking full backs playing like wingers while the wide players come inside, but also expect them to not leave gaps. Do the full backs need to push on as high or as often as they do? Is that something we could look at.

 

3) The high line we hold for some dead ball crosses into the box. We only seem to do this late on. I don't like it. Granted, we shouldn't shit ourselves and hold a line right on top of the keeper but, with the line we sometimes hold, one good ball in behind it leaves us exposed and means we have to rely exclusively on the keeper claiming or punching the ball clear. Karius did this well once tonight. But, given our choice of keepers, with neither being particularly dominant in the air, I think it's a big risk to do this.

 

Just a few concerns for me tactically. But, I think it's definitely more a case of the players we have available to use rather than how they are being used.

 

On the full backs do you see a problem with them being caught high all the time (moreno occasionally), I don't, I see them having problems with basic positioning and defending.  Reining them in won't solve that problem.

 

I also doubt an extra sitter would make much difference, from what I see we're rarely outnumbered, we usually have bodies, they're just busy fixing their hair/shitting themselves/falling asleep etc.

[VladimirIlyich]

The Aldi is rubbish.

Bloody Germans and their refusal to buy quality goods while always going for the cheaper options.