Klopp's Tactics

[an tha]

He hasn't had 4 windows though has he? He's been backed in two windows to the tune of about £15m net per season, and he's signed two world class players in that time.

 

The last time FSG backed the manager in January was nearly 5 years ago.

Ok he's been here for 4 windows.

 

The thing is (and i am no FSG fan) the noises suggest he has been happy with the lack of activity or to put it another way he appears to think what we have done is enough/right.

[G Richards]

He wanted Keita and VVD. He signed the former for next season as his club wouldn’t sell, so he did the next best thing. He got into trouble over VVD and then that petered out this summer, but we may be back in there in January. He bought Karius but then put Mignolet back in goal after Karius started his time here slowly. I’m not convinced Jurgen is settled on the goalkeeper yet, but I think it’s fair to assume he expected Karius to do better.

 

All this is to say there’s no way he thinks what we have right now is enough. He’s doing his utmost to change it! (Whether it’s happening fast enough is the bone of contention, but I’m certain Klopp wants to change it).

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

To be fair we have only conceded 1 goal at home , it is away that we have been awful defensively.

Didn't realize that. Do you think it'll last? I think our only decent defensive weapon is our pressing high up the field. Once we let the opposition anywhere near our box panic strikes. Even Maribor managed to create one massive opportunity against us, and they were in our half for about 40 seconds out of the 90 minutes.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

He wanted Keita and VVD. He signed the former for next season as his club wouldn’t sell, so he did the next best thing. He got into trouble over VVD and then that petered out this summer, but we may be back in there in January. He bought Karius but then put Mignolet back in goal after Karius started his time here slowly. I’m not convinced Jurgen is settled on the goalkeeper yet, but I think it’s fair to assume he expected Karius to do better.

 

All this is to say there’s no way he thinks what we have right now is enough. He’s doing his utmost to change it! (Whether it’s happening fast enough is the bone of contention, but I’m certain Klopp wants to change it).

I'm not convinced. I've maintained for a long time that a top club need at least 3-4 very good CBs. And that we have 1 only in Matip, after the start of this season one could argue that we have none.

 

So we need at least 2 new quality CBs, maybe 3. In addition we need more protection from midfield, and probably also a new keeper. Best we can hope for in January is probably 1 CB. Which of course, if we avoid injuries, should improve us somewhat,

[Kevin D]

I'm not convinced. I've maintained for a long time that a top club need at least 3-4 very good CBs. And that we have 1 only in Matip, after the start of this season one could argue that we have none.

 

So we need at least 2 new quality CBs, maybe 3. In addition we need more protection from midfield, and probably also a new keeper. Best we can hope for in January is probably 1 CB. Which of course, if we avoid injuries, should improve us somewhat,

There's your problem, right here.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

There's your problem, right here.

I know.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

I'm not convinced. I've maintained for a long time that a top club need at least 3-4 very good CBs. And that we have 1 only in Matip, after the start of this season one could argue that we have none.

 

So we need at least 2 new quality CBs, maybe 3. In addition we need more protection from midfield, and probably also a new keeper. Best we can hope for in January is probably 1 CB. Which of course, if we avoid injuries, should improve us somewhat,

 

He's had 4 transfer windows to sort this out and we're still pretty much in the same position as when he came into the club.

 

You could actually argue we're in a worse position than before he joined in terms of squad.

[Jay86]

I’m not buying the argument that Karius was an attempt to upgrade on Mignolet, we spent £4.5m? On him. It’s not hard to upgrade on Mignolet if you spend enough money, you can’t buy a 2nd tier level keeper then buy another 2nd tier keeper to replace him. It shouldn’t be a case of trying to upgrade on him, we should buy someone’s who’s a certainty to be better, even if that means spending £30m on him. We’ve seen the difference in Man City’s defence since Ederson came in, we’ve seen the difference De Gea makes to Utd, we’ve seen how Courtois takes pressure off his defence on set pieces by coming out and claiming the ball.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

He's had 4 transfer windows to sort this out and we're still pretty much in the same position as when he came into the club.

 

You could actually argue we're in a worse position than before he joined in terms of squad.

Defensively we seem only to get worse, I agree. In midfield and attack the depth is far better now. At least in attack. Im midfield we need 1-2 high quality players to make the current starters squad players.

[sir roger]

Didn't realize that. Do you think it'll last? I think our only decent defensive weapon is our pressing high up the field. Once we let the opposition anywhere near our box panic strikes. Even Maribor managed to create one massive opportunity against us, and they were in our half for about 40 seconds out of the 90 minutes.

 

Common sense suggests that as there is such a variance, the home defensive figures will get worse & the away defensive figures better.

 

As I have said on the match thread there are quite a few changes I would make immediately defensively & the crunch will come in January.

[clangers]

If money really is that tight then why spend £35-40 million on AOC? Not exactly a priority, we're not expecting us to necessarily be the tightest defence in the league but at least as good as Burnley, West Brom, Huddersfield, Newcastle or Brighton might not be an unreasonable expectation?

[VladimirIlyich]

Remember Rafa had money to spend,money that almost bankrupted the club of course but money nonetheless. Klopp is working within a financial framework while all our rivals(Spurs apart,maybe?) and we are falling further behind. If Klopp is happy to let others buy the players and him coach them then I suggest he rethinks this situation.

[Charles Penrose]

Going the same way as every other manager we’ve had for nearly three decades. Fed up of hearing the shit coming out of his mouth, ably assisted by his lack of any tactical nous whatsoever, his shit substitutions and his persistence with Mignolet, Lovren and Moreno.

 

He’s got an infectious laugh though and gives a good hug.

[skend04]

Ah go on then, I'll play. Who we going to bring in as a manager when we spend £23m/year and pay wages to match?

 

We aren't a top 4 club, haven't been for 2 decades. So I say let's sack Klopp and bring in Allardyce. He can wheel and deal on peanuts. Now over to you guys.

[Jack the Sipper]

I don't want Klopp sacked, not least because I can't see us getting anyone better right now, but to ignore his flaws thus far and to claim that anyone who points them out wants him gone is evading the point.

 

If money's tight then why did he spend 50m plus wages on AOC who barely makes the team and Robertson who barely makes the squad? Money right there that could've gone on getting in a defender or two that can actually shore us up at the back. 

 

It's fucking negligent that, four transfer windows in and with money to spend, we've arguably a worse defence than the shambles Rodgers left us with. That has to be on Klopp.

[aRdja]

If you don’t play with a proper striker then you won’t score as many goals as you should.

 

If you don’t play with a proper holding midfielder, then your defence is going to be more exposed.

 

All fairly basic and obvious, but he doesn’t seem to get it.

[Red74]

If we’ve got no money to spend then why did he sign a 6 year contract?

 

Brendan Rodgers got slaughtered for being an FSG / committee yes man over not standing up for himself for similar.

 

Klopps got the money, he just doesn’t know how to spend it.

[Moo]

I don't want Klopp sacked, not least because I can't see us getting anyone better right now, but to ignore his flaws thus far and to claim that anyone who points them out wants him gone is evading the point.

 

If money's tight then why did he spend 50m plus wages on AOC who barely makes the team and Robertson who barely makes the squad? Money right there that could've gone on getting in a defender or two that can actually shore us up at the back.

 

It's fucking negligent that, four transfer windows in and with money to spend, we've arguably a worse defence than the shambles Rodgers left us with. That has to be on Klopp.

I was gonna write a long reply on what I think the issues are, a clash of priorities and outlooks between Klopp and FSG. But what's the point, no one knows what's going on behind closed doors.

 

What I will say is that on the surface the signing of AOC is a puzzle, but look a bit closer and it pretty clear that it's a signing that suits both the manager and the owners, a coming together of both perspectives - that's why I think that one got done, despite not being a priority.

[Moo]

If you don’t play with a proper striker then you won’t score as many goals as you should.

 

If you don’t play with a proper holding midfielder, then your defence is going to be more exposed.

 

All fairly basic and obvious, but he doesn’t seem to get it.

Your first sentence is blatantly not true. I would love a proper striker, just because, but scoring goals is (generally) not a problem for us.

[johnsusername]

Get Unsworth and Big Dunc in.

 

Am I in the right thread?

[aRdja]

Your first sentence is blatantly not true. I would love a proper striker, just because, but scoring goals is (generally) not a problem for us.

I disagree. We miss too many chances.

[Numero Veinticinco]

It's the players, not the tactics.

 

The problem is most of our players aren't even half decent, they're fucking shite.

 

Our spine of Mignolet, Lovren, Henderson and Firmino is horrific.

 

There lies the problem.

Agreed, I've been saying it for a long time; our spine is a real issue. It's like the reverse of our Rafa teams. Decent wide players, shite through the middle. We are literally spineless, in multiple senses of the word.

[billypilgrimnz]

Can't there be a balance?

Spurs seem to have found it, though it helps they have better individual players almost to a man.

[Numero Veinticinco]

And Rafa as well.

 

I remember both managers tenure well. Couldn't move for fans moaning about the style of football and how dull it was.

Yeah. The 'anyone but Rafa' cries started to hush a little bit when that 'anyone' was Woy. Not so fucking funny then, really. The absolute worst thing we could do at the minute is bin Klopp.

[The Guest]

I think for the first time since Klopp arrived Pochetino had him off tactically. The mistakes were beyond terrible but I think we would have been beaten anyway. It was Sunday league defending from Lovren but tactically we looked a bit clueless. Previously coming up against good attacking sides we were in our element. Whether in form or not or even with injuries we still dominated the good teams. We’ve been so good at it that most teams won’t dare attack us.

 

Other than a 10/15 minute spell before their 3rd goal it felt like we didn’t know what to do. They closed off the space for us to pass quite well. Watching the centre backs bringing it out or when Coutinho dropped deep to try and get things going there were just no options. We’ve started moving the ball across the pitch so slowly and we basically play it too safe until the point were we just give it away with some stupid shit chipped ball. The movement is absolutely terrible.

 

Spurs didn’t come out and steam roll us. They were getting 6/7 players in a line the few times we actually got the ball into their half in the first 45 mins. It felt like they were doing a higher quality version of stifling us and waiting for our mistakes. Most sides try it but most don’t have a Kane to kill us off and Lovren doesn’t usually play as bad as that.

 

It makes me think what can we do to stop this tactic working in the short and long term? I feel like we’ve become kings of keeping the ball in safe situations. Instead of taking risks we keep it which allows the opposition to get all the it team behind the ball and in position. Due to our formation the only way to break that down is for the full backs to get really far up the pitch and it leaves us massively exposed to counters. If we don’t send the full backs up we are going to end up drawing a lot of games but when we do we expose ourselves to a lot of games ending up like this.

 

Personally I think we need to start playing the back four as a back four. We need to start playing a lot more direct. Whenever spurs were in possession it felt like they had acres to play into and we were wide open but the opposite when we got the ball back from them. We can’t be scared of teams having possession. A lot of the time it’s the best and only way we can score goals because we can counter it. I think playing Solanke with another up front would help that.