Jump to content
  • Sign up for free and receive a month's subscription

    You are viewing this page as a guest. That means you are either a member who has not logged in, or you have not yet registered with us. Signing up for an account only takes a minute and it means you will no longer see this annoying box! It will also allow you to get involved with our friendly(ish!) community and take part in the discussions on our forums. And because we're feeling generous, if you sign up for a free account we will give you a month's free trial access to our subscriber only content with no obligation to commit. Register an account and then send a private message to @dave u and he'll hook you up with a subscription.

United v Liverpool - match thread


Paco
 Share

Recommended Posts

I sat in a pub full of mancs, it was horrible. The blessing is they dont see how shite they are.

 

Rodgers time is up, that was as bad as anything under Hodgson. Firmino was invisible, how much did we pay, I've yet to see anything that suggests he's worth half of it.

I think maybe if we play him at centre back he could do even worse. Don't think there is too much wrong with Firmino, that may not be true for very long though as being played out of position in a team with no attacking play will influence him.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After the Stoke debacle we were promised that the players would "work hard and learn from this"- they haven't.

 

Worse than that, it is half a new team, and what they have learned is the old ways.

 

When Brendan pleaded for his job on the basis that he had "much more to give" we weren't thinking more of what we got against Villa, Stoke, west ham and Man u.

 

To make this worse, I don't think that we have bought badly- I do think we are being managed badly.

 

Since August 2014 the defining characteristic of our performances has been:

 

passive
ˈpasɪv/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    accepting or allowing what happens or what others do, without active response or resistance.
     
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Klopp would be a considerable upgrade if you could get him, but he's going to want to start over again with players who show considerable aggression and commitment, and that's another round of investment for FSG to fund. I'm really not convinced that losing to United matters very much to FSG at all. It hurts fans, but does it hurt them out in Boston? I don't think so.

 

The only thing I don't fully understand is how their desire for success was strong enough to sack Dalglish, but it's not strong enough to sack Rodgers? - something's changed at FSG, otherwise, he'd be gone by now wouldn't he?

 

Have they lost the appetite to aim higher in light of how much it'll will likely cost? (genuine question). I'm sure after 4 or 5 rounds of investment they must be wary of having to start all over again with yet another manager.

 

I think they've sussed out that spending on the stadium expansion will recover some money, but spending on players must fill them with dread now.

Arguably they'll be more focused on their own exit strategy than Rodgers' - getting the club looking as financially attractive as possible before selling up.

 

They seem like a pretty decent set of owners, but they've had three attempts at hiring a manager - the fans favourite, the older (allegedly) wiser guy, and the up and coming younger manager. The only remaining option is the 'big name' manager, but they've left it so very late, it's hard to attract one, and if they do, they'll need to spend heavily again. When you look at it like that, you can see why they're sticking it out with Rodgers.

 

I think they'll realise eventually that it's a lot harder to attract external sponsorship (or a buyer) if your brand new stand is empty when it opens next season. No amount of TV money will hide that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chicken or the egg thing. I have no idea how good Firmino is, but it takes about 2 minutes to see that he's no wide player. Ings should be decent premiership quality, and a good squad player, but he's an attacker and not a wide midfielder in what looked a plain 4-5-1 today. Markovic? How the fuck would we know after watching him at wingback? Gerrard never was and never will be a defensive midfielder. I could go on. As long as this continues it's not very easy to judge the quality of the squad.

 

Agreed. Do you think he believes he's able to 'convert' players in some way? (although you'd think for the majority of buys, you'd buy the right player for the right position). I can understand once in a while you buy a player with a view to converting him in some way, but not as much as Rodgers does.

If it comes off, he could be considered a genius for it, but it's not working is it? If you need a winger, buy a winger, or keep the money until one becomes available.

 

I think it's a hard enough job to just buy good players for the right positions and get them to gel into a great side. Only a handful of managers in history have been able to reshape players successfully, and Rodgers isn't one of them. I think he's spent too long daydreaming about being the next great Liverpool manager - something he'll never be, and that's got him pretending to be a sage during interviews, and probably doing the same with his managerial decisions. He's 'acting' the part of a Liverpool great thinking that the team will follow. The genuine greats got the team right, and the greatness followed.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they'll realise eventually that it's a lot harder to attract external sponsorship (or a buyer) if your brand new stand is empty when it opens next season. No amount of TV money will hide that.

 

It won't be empty. There's too many Liverpool fans eager to see them for that to happen.

Maybe if you really had it rough for a few years (fighting relegation, or worse) it could happen, but at it stands, you'll sell it out. You don't honestly think they'll struggle to fill it do you? I'd be staggered if that happened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed. Do you think he believes he's able to 'convert' players in some way? 

 

 

I think he has always believed that a certain type of player can function in a number of positions in his system.

 

What he is finding out is that may not be the case and worse, that system populated with interchangeable parts is really not all that good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

The only thing I don't fully understand is how their desire for success was strong enough to sack Dalglish, but it's not strong enough to sack Rodgers? - something's changed at FSG, otherwise, he'd be gone by now wouldn't he?

 

 

I think a lot of that was down to Dalglish's view on the media. FSG had got that stupid 'Being Liverpool' or whatever it was called documentary coming up, and there is no way Kenny Dalglish would have agreed to that. Plus I think the owners always wanted a young up and coming manager in, rather than an older guy.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how J.W. Henry is feeling tonight.

Don't know but its time he phoned Carlo Ancelloti. I imagine the conversation to go something like this,

 

J, Henry, hi Carlo did you watch the game today?

 

CA, yes i did

 

JH, what did you think of our performance?

 

Long silence...

 

JH, Carlo, are you still there,

 

CA, yes I'm here

 

JH, could you use your experience to make our club title contenders?

 

CA, yes. I believe i could

 

JH fantastic could you use your contacts to entice world class players to the club?

 

CA, yea i could,

 

JH, great how much would one of these players cost?

 

CA, about 30 million

 

JH, brilliant. on today's evidence how many would we need to buy?

 

CA. Eleven

 

JH, err ok goodbye

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is from Pearce's match report:

 

 

It’s unthinkable that the owners will reach for the panic button in mid-September. Having given him £80million to invest in the squad this summer and granted permission for him to overhaul his backroom staff, Fenway Sports Group aren’t going to give him the bullet after two defeats.

But there is doubt that support for the manager among the club’s fanbase is waning fast.

That growing sense of unrest is not simply based on recent weeks but also the slide Rodgers oversaw in the spring.

 

How much do I have to drink to make sense of the bolded part? Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep remembering one thing thinking back to this, and that was a sense of anger watching how shit we were. Not an over the top type of anger, but just simmering away during watching it, maybe thinking about how I do think we have so many talented players, but it's baffling watching how crap they actually play at the moment. Clearly it being against them was hard to take, especially when as others have said, they were so shit themselves.

 

Not a bad goal from the "target man" either, but fucking horrible to see Martial score so quickly after that, along with Tyler's orgasm that removed any sense of neutrality. Benno (joking) scores a goal that was simply magical and did he really sound that bothered? But Martial then scores straight after and he goes insane. He even kind of suggested to Gary "Manchessuniiyted" (learn to say your previous club name properly for fuck's sake) fucking Neville that the Martial goal had "upstaged" Benteke's goal. On what planet did that make any sense?

 

Listening to him freaking out just topped off the shitness of it, knowing that even the fucking commentators were completely wrong to add to what was happening on the pitch, just sad. Nice of cuntface "Ashley" to start the whole thing off with his absolutely pathetic dive as well (which got one of ours a yellow card! What the fuck? Ref joining in too to top it off? Should've been a yellow for simulation), even if it doesn't excuse the performance we put in.

 

Also had a really shit thought when watching just after Benteke had scored. I didn't really agree with it but couldn't argue with it much either : I thought something like "If we score another next does that mean he gets away with this?" I shouldn't ever have to think like that about our manager and the fact that it didn't bother me so much is for me a fairly clear sign that I think he should probably be gone.

 

I'll eventually be fine if he proves me wrong somehow at this stage, maybe, but I'm really sick now of seeing so many players who clearly have potential not looking like they know how the fuck to play football with each other properly. I really think now that with the right manager our squad could be doing a lot better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We do seem to be launching the ball at Benteke often too, which almost definitely isn't how to get the best out of him at all, even if he can play well like that at times. It's just looking like route one hoofball and that really does remind me of Hodgepodge. I think in the back of my head I had October in mind as when he'd probably be gone, and I'll sadly agree with that still by the looks of it I think. Possibly November? It'll probably take something truly special from him to pull this back now, and I don't think he can settle on any style or group of players in their best positions for that to happen.

 

Lovren was fucked up at times yet again as well, what will it actually take for him to pick Sakho again? He at least swapped them around a bit before, but it's probably not going to make much difference. The problem is rooted a lot deeper than just swapping one defender for another, it's the whole system that's not working consistently and apart from a couple of runs of results here and there it probably hasn't been since Luis was here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only saw hughlights but didnt look too good.

 

only positive is benteke scoring really. My mate text me "benteke scored a volley and martial got a cracker to make it 3-1"

 

Eh benteke scored a fucking overhead kick and skrtel was doing I dont know what for martials goal.

 

first goal was a joke from us as well and gomez was silly for the pen.

 

has to be a turning point because defeat at home in the next game leaves rodgers on the brink.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed. Do you think he believes he's able to 'convert' players in some way? (although you'd think for the majority of buys, you'd buy the right player for the right position). I can understand once in a while you buy a player with a view to converting him in some way, but not as much as Rodgers does.

If it comes off, he could be considered a genius for it, but it's not working is it? If you need a winger, buy a winger, or keep the money until one becomes available.

 

I think it's a hard enough job to just buy good players for the right positions and get them to gel into a great side. Only a handful of managers in history have been able to reshape players successfully, and Rodgers isn't one of them. I think he's spent too long daydreaming about being the next great Liverpool manager - something he'll never be, and that's got him pretending to be a sage during interviews, and probably doing the same with his managerial decisions. He's 'acting' the part of a Liverpool great thinking that the team will follow. The genuine greats got the team right, and the greatness followed.

Agree in full with the first paragraph. I do think in modern football it's very good if you have players that can adapt to a new position if or when necessary. But to consistently play them out of position is a totally different matter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In fairness to Lovren, bar from his customary fuck up i thought he played quite well, got stuck in and looked like he gave a shit.. One of our best players on the day.

I partly agree with that, and I think the reason is he was up against a big lump of a forward. It's when he's facing the fast, mobile and skilful ones he gets in real trouble.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I could be more disillusioned with the club than I am right now. I would usually have some nerves before a game with United but there were none yesterday as I saw no chance of us winning the game.

 

The system we're seeing now is Rodgers' favourite. It's the one he employed at Swansea when they averaged just over a point and a goal a game in the PL and saw them lose 14 Championship games the season before. Due to the shortage of goals it requires reliable defenders of which we only have one in Clyne. It isolates the striker and looks more like a 451 than 433 and results aside it is fucking awful to watch even when we win.

 

This is also possibly the worst collection of Liverpool players since the early 90s. Our star player is an attacking midfielder who has not scored over 5 league goals a season for us in his 2 and a half years at the club. Benteke aside we have nobody who will get near double figures this season.

 

It's soul destroying to watch and the sooner it's ripped up and started again the better.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was late to come to the view that he needed to go, but the way last season ended I thought he would go in the summer. To most people's surprise he got a reprieve.

 

Since he got a reprieve I started a thread called, "Backing the manager." It made sense to me that we should all calm down a bit to see how things unfolded on the pitch. I never advocated another whole season, but I was arguing for a decent block of games, perhaps even to Christmas, to see how things shaped up on the pitch.

 

I was wrong.

 

He should be sacked right away, especially if Klopp would come here. I'm not one for getting personal and being nasty to the manager. The way he has the team playing speaks for itself.

 

I actually think we have some good players and we are much better than we are witnessing. But for whatever reason they look devoid of ideas and that is down to the manager. Someone made a good comment about him doing better at a smaller club with less players and less tactical options. I get the impression that with all the money spent and all the players brought in, whatever clarity Rodgers once had about the game is evaporating. And that gets through to the players and before you know it, the whole thing is so much less than the sum of its parts.

 

The remedy is to bring Klopp in. He has charisma so there will be an instant lift. But he also has good ideas about the game and is a proven winner. He will get the players believing in themselves. He will get them pressing and looking so much better.

 

Make the change and make it now, before another season is written off. Get Klopp now and we will still finish top four as there's loads of football to be played.

A road to Damascus moment. You could change your username to Paul but it would get confusing.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...