Ketosis

[Champ]

7 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Greek yoghurt plus berries or half a pear is pretty filling and low-ish on carbs.

Its quite challenging, isnt it?

[Mudface]

Just now, Champ said:

Its quite challenging, isnt it?

I actually found Atkins relatively easy, aside from breakfasts where you're obviously quite restricted as you can't have cereal or bread. I'm not that keen on eggs, but yoghurt and berries suited me fine, and is surprisingly filling. 

[Elite]

I'm seriously thinking of going Keto to help with pain issues (I've read keto is great for inflammation, which if reduced could help me greatly).

 

Anyone have a sample meal plan.

[Mudface]

It doesn't need to be particularly complicated, something like eggs or yoghurt and berries/ pear for breakfast, a cold meat salad for dinner and chicken/ pork chop/ steak and green veg for tea would be fine. Stick the meals into My Fitness Pal and check your carbs there- you should aim for under 50g, but between 20-30g would be better, at least initially to kickstart ketosis.

 

I have rheumatoid arthritis, which is an autoimmune condition, and anecdotally, I did feel a lot better on Atkins- although I did also get my Methotrexate chemo dose sorted out around the same time, so it's just as likely to have been that that helped.

 

The main problem I found with it, is that it's very difficult to stay on the diet beyond about 6 months or so, so I'm not particularly convinced it's sustainable. I lost about 2 stone on it over 6-7 months and got down to my target weight, but as soon as I increased the carbs, the weight came back on, and I quickly put on a stone. If you're not using it solely for weight loss though and it does help with your pain, that might be a better incentive to stick with it.

16 minutes ago, Elite said:

I'm seriously thinking of going Keto to help with pain issues (I've read keto is great for inflammation, which if reduced could help me greatly).

 

Anyone have a sample meal plan.

 

[Elite]

1 hour ago, Mudface said:

It doesn't need to be particularly complicated, something like eggs or yoghurt and berries/ pear for breakfast, a cold meat salad for dinner and chicken/ pork chop/ steak and green veg for tea would be fine. Stick the meals into My Fitness Pal and check your carbs there- you should aim for under 50g, but between 20-30g would be better, at least initially to kickstart ketosis.

 

I have rheumatoid arthritis, which is an autoimmune condition, and anecdotally, I did feel a lot better on Atkins- although I did also get my Methotrexate chemo dose sorted out around the same time, so it's just as likely to have been that that helped.

 

The main problem I found with it, is that it's very difficult to stay on the diet beyond about 6 months or so, so I'm not particularly convinced it's sustainable. I lost about 2 stone on it over 6-7 months and got down to my target weight, but as soon as I increased the carbs, the weight came back on, and I quickly put on a stone. If you're not using it solely for weight loss though and it does help with your pain, that might be a better incentive to stick with it.

 

I'm not bothered about weight loss as I'm in decent shape anyway. My diet isn't too bad in general, I just need to replace a few items, sauces and fuck off all the biscuits/chocolate which will be the hard part but if it decreases my pain it's worth it. 

 

I'm just trying to cut all the inflammation causing foods out of my diet and Keto is more appealing than vegan!

[Mudface]

16 minutes ago, Elite said:

I'm not bothered about weight loss as I'm in decent shape anyway. My diet isn't too bad in general, I just need to replace a few items, sauces and fuck off all the biscuits/chocolate which will be the hard part but if it decreases my pain it's worth it. 

 

I'm just trying to cut all the inflammation causing foods out of my diet and Keto is more appealing than vegan!

Have you had a look at the FODMAP diets? They're more specifically for digestive issues but could be used to identify and remove foods that cause other problems. 

[Elite]

1 hour ago, Mudface said:

Have you had a look at the FODMAP diets? They're more specifically for digestive issues but could be used to identify and remove foods that cause other problems. 

I'm going to try Keto mate and go from there. Will wait a week as I'm working constantly next week so want to get a routine going when I have more time which should set me up nicely for the busier weeks.

[Red Shift]

I get that Keto gives the Pancreas a break, but all that fat surely puts the gall bladder under tremendous load. Any stats on gallstone formation on a low carb diet? Gallstones are on the rise in NZ, and I’m wondering if there’s a correlation with long term Keto?

[Red Shift]

I've been slipping in and out of Ketosis for a couple of months, having drastically reduced my carb intake (processed refined carbs in all forms - still eating cooked and salad vegetables + a small amount of berry fruits) and I'm experiencing not only a calmer and more balanced mental focus, but obviously greater more sustainable physical energy. Urine colour is my only confirmation of ketosis, but my blood sugar readings have been at their lowest for 4 years. 

I'm posting this because of a lack of understanding of gluconeogenesis, of which I am getting mixed messages.
We know it is the process of conversion into glucose by the liver, and the general consensus in the keto community, is that it is FAT that is broken down for the conversion. However, another school of thought is that the process is fueled by amino acids, and that muscle tissue is broken down so that glucose levels are maintained to a certain degree, whilst also allowing ketones to be present.

I am just wanting good hard scientific back up for statements. Obviously, if a low carb diet ends up reducing muscle mass, that is not desirable.

I feel great, but can't say I'm an athlete and my exercise is moderate and more aerobic, with minimal strength training, limited to old fashioned isometrics. I'm losing weight slowly, and yes, it seems to be mostly fat, but I have a feeling that my muscle mass has diminished slightly , so I'd like to get the science on this. Thanks.

[Rico1304]

52 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

I've been slipping in and out of Ketosis for a couple of months, having drastically reduced my carb intake (processed refined carbs in all forms - still eating cooked and salad vegetables + a small amount of berry fruits) and I'm experiencing not only a calmer and more balanced mental focus, but obviously greater more sustainable physical energy. Urine colour is my only confirmation of ketosis, but my blood sugar readings have been at their lowest for 4 years. 

I'm posting this because of a lack of understanding of gluconeogenesis, of which I am getting mixed messages.
We know it is the process of conversion into glucose by the liver, and the general consensus in the keto community, is that it is FAT that is broken down for the conversion. However, another school of thought is that the process is fueled by amino acids, and that muscle tissue is broken down so that glucose levels are maintained to a certain degree, whilst also allowing ketones to be present.

I am just wanting good hard scientific back up for statements. Obviously, if a low carb diet ends up reducing muscle mass, that is not desirable.

I feel great, but can't say I'm an athlete and my exercise is moderate and more aerobic, with minimal strength training, limited to old fashioned isometrics. I'm losing weight slowly, and yes, it seems to be mostly fat, but I have a feeling that my muscle mass has diminished slightly , so I'd like to get the science on this. Thanks.

I know of a bloke who’d be happy to check your muscle mass, he’s loads of experience.  

[Red Shift]

On 25/08/2015 at 06:37, Red Phoenix said:

Am getting closer to being able to do this now, but am basically doing a low-carb diet for the time being, until some of the high-carb food I already have is gone. Main fats are going to be cheese, avocado, eggs, butter, olive oil, walnuts and coconut oil. With the last there I just found some that's organic and cold pressed, it tastes nice too, and might try some in a coffee later.

 

It's odd though, seeing how one snack that would've been normal before just wipes out most of a days carbs in one go. A tin of beans, a banana, some oats, lentils, it's just strange. I think I feel calmer already though after cutting down the carbs a bit.

 

The state of ketosis isn't strange at all according to this, it's just not so well known as something that's maintained in a diet. If it sorts out some of my anxiety alone though I'll be more than happy with it.

 

From the article just linked :

 

 

 

 

I think the reality is, that in a healthy well adjusted metabolism, untainted by modern overly processed factory food, unburdened by the prolonged ingestion of highly refined sugars, we have an evolved, highly efficient system of deriving the energy we require, from any combination of food available in the short term - to clarify - through the seasons.

Just a theory at this stage.

[Red Shift]

Hello !!

I am getting good results on a low carb diet (not quite Keto- keeping carbs below 75 grams a day)

Anybody got a nice Keto or low carb recipe for Worstershire Sauce? That is my favourite condiment for red meat, but store bought (whether lea and perrins or equiv) is high in carbs if going over a couple of tablespoons a day.

Thanks in advance for any reply.

[Furmedge]

Right, need a bit of advice.  I've been back on keto for around 3-4 weeks now, managing to lose a stone in the first 2.5 weeks.  Over the last week its been a little slow and the last three days I've plateaud.  I've got keto sticks to monitor my levels and although it says I'm in the keto phase it's right at the start of it despite being on it for a month.  My diet mainly consists of;

 

Fluids - At least 2l of water and a couple of diet drinks a day. Coffee (with stevia). 1 x Bovril a day.

Meats - Roast chicken, chicken sausages, ham (not often), beef (only once a week as I'm not a huge fan of red meat)

Salad/Veg - Cucumber, mushrooms, onions, chilli's

Dairy - Sliced cheese, soft cheese

Snacks - Pork scratchings

Other - Almond butter

 

I'm doing weights every couple of days (nothing too heavy, just getting the heart moving) and went back the gym yesterday for a little bit of the cross trainer and more weights.

 

Not the most adventurous diet but the combinations work for me.  Anyone pinpoint where I am going wrong because I'm staying quite low on carb intake but not seeing the results on the keto sticks or scales?  I'd be happy if I could see the clothes getting a little looser but not really for the last week and a half.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Furmedge
I missed shit out.

[Mudface]

18 minutes ago, Furmedge said:

Right, need a bit of advice.  I've been back on keto for around 3-4 weeks now, managing to lose a stone in the first 2.5 weeks.  Over the last week its been a little slow and the last three days I've plateaud.  I've got keto sticks to monitor my levels and although it says I'm in the keto phase it's right at the start of it despite being on it for a month.  My diet mainly consists of;

 

Fluids - At least 2l of water and a couple of diet drinks a day. Coffee (with stevia). 1 x Bovril a day.

Meats - Roast chicken, chicken sausages, ham (not often), beef (only once a week as I'm not a huge fan of red meat)

Salad/Veg - Cucumber, mushrooms, onions, chilli's

Dairy - Sliced cheese, soft cheese

Snacks - Pork scratchings

Other - Almond butter

 

I'm doing weights every couple of days (nothing too heavy, just getting the heart moving) and went back the gym yesterday for a little bit of the cross trainer and more weights.

 

Not the most adventurous diet but the combinations work for me.  Anyone pinpoint where I am going wrong because I'm staying quite low on carb intake but not seeing the results on the keto sticks or scales?  I'd be happy if I could see the clothes getting a little looser but not really for the last week and a half.

 

 

Are you measuring your body fat too? If that's coming down, I wouldn't worry too much about weight for now. 

[Furmedge]

23 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Are you measuring your body fat too? If that's coming down, I wouldn't worry too much about weight for now. 

I have, but only using tape.  I've got a set of scales with a body fat monitor on it arriving tomorrow.  I probably need the auto version to stop me pinching the tape a little tighter to view the results I want.

[Mudface]

4 minutes ago, Furmedge said:

I have, but only using tape.  I've got a set of scales with a body fat monitor on it arriving tomorrow.  I probably need the auto version to stop me pinching the tape a little tighter to view the results I want.

I did Atkins a few years back and quite regularly plateaued for a couple of weeks, I did notice my body fat (via the scales) was still reducing though so wasn't too bothered. You can record your carb intake on My Fitness Pal which might help, I found it had to be between 20 and 30 g a day at the beginning for it to 'work'.

[Pidge]

2 hours ago, Furmedge said:

Right, need a bit of advice.  I've been back on keto for around 3-4 weeks now, managing to lose a stone in the first 2.5 weeks.  Over the last week its been a little slow and the last three days I've plateaud.  I've got keto sticks to monitor my levels and although it says I'm in the keto phase it's right at the start of it despite being on it for a month.  My diet mainly consists of;

 

Fluids - At least 2l of water and a couple of diet drinks a day. Coffee (with stevia). 1 x Bovril a day.

Meats - Roast chicken, chicken sausages, ham (not often), beef (only once a week as I'm not a huge fan of red meat)

Salad/Veg - Cucumber, mushrooms, onions, chilli's

Dairy - Sliced cheese, soft cheese

Snacks - Pork scratchings

Other - Almond butter

 

I'm doing weights every couple of days (nothing too heavy, just getting the heart moving) and went back the gym yesterday for a little bit of the cross trainer and more weights.

 

Not the most adventurous diet but the combinations work for me.  Anyone pinpoint where I am going wrong because I'm staying quite low on carb intake but not seeing the results on the keto sticks or scales?  I'd be happy if I could see the clothes getting a little looser but not really for the last week and a half.

 

 

Haven't used the strips (but am interested to check since I've been experimenting with IF during the week to stop myself from grazing while I WFH and into the evening), found this which might explain the drop-off for you.

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/keto-strips#accuracy

 

Quote

Urine strips are a good tool to measure whether you're in ketosis during the first few weeks of going keto.

During this time, your body can’t use ketones efficiently for energy, and so you urinate many of them out.

But as you get deeper into ketosis, your body adapts to using ketones for fuel and becomes more optimized in producing them, leaving less unused.

In other words, if you’ve been in a keto-adapted state for many months, a keto strip may indicate that your urine contains only trace amounts of ketones, if any. This can mislead people into thinking they’re no longer in ketosis, which may not be the case.

 

There's also a point about hydration which makes sense, but I assume if you are measuring at standard times (I guess before/after bed makes the most sense) then you should get more comparable results.

[Red Shift]

On 28/07/2019 at 23:20, Elite said:

I'm seriously thinking of going Keto to help with pain issues (I've read keto is great for inflammation, which if reduced could help me greatly).

 

Anyone have a sample meal plan.

The biggest inflammatory culprit is Omega 6. Get rid of all seed and nut oils (except maybe walnut) and any foods made with seed and nut oils. 
 

I’m whole food plant based, but pretty high in fat, also with supplements of eggs and salmon, with no issues. Whole grain oats, whole grain brown rice, and 100% sourdough wholegrain bread are my only grains. All organic - the reason is because most conventional grain crops are sprayed with Glyphosate - it interferes with gluten absorption and confuses your digestive system.
 

As already mentioned though, Omega 6 is highly inflammatory.

[Aventus]

18 hours ago, Furmedge said:

Right, need a bit of advice.  I've been back on keto for around 3-4 weeks now, managing to lose a stone in the first 2.5 weeks.  Over the last week its been a little slow and the last three days I've plateaud.  I've got keto sticks to monitor my levels and although it says I'm in the keto phase it's right at the start of it despite being on it for a month.  My diet mainly consists of;

 

Fluids - At least 2l of water and a couple of diet drinks a day. Coffee (with stevia). 1 x Bovril a day.

Meats - Roast chicken, chicken sausages, ham (not often), beef (only once a week as I'm not a huge fan of red meat)

Salad/Veg - Cucumber, mushrooms, onions, chilli's

Dairy - Sliced cheese, soft cheese

Snacks - Pork scratchings

Other - Almond butter

 

I'm doing weights every couple of days (nothing too heavy, just getting the heart moving) and went back the gym yesterday for a little bit of the cross trainer and more weights.

 

Not the most adventurous diet but the combinations work for me.  Anyone pinpoint where I am going wrong because I'm staying quite low on carb intake but not seeing the results on the keto sticks or scales?  I'd be happy if I could see the clothes getting a little looser but not really for the last week and a half.

 

 

That's normal, when going into ketosis you lose a lot of water weight pretty quickly. Glycogen stores cause some water retention. 

 

After that point its good old calories in calories out, which takes a bit longer for weight loss. 

 

I'd say just carry on what you're doing, and weigh yourself a little bit less often so the differences are more noticeable and then see where you're at in a week. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

If you're still struggling after a bit longer, try adding Intermittent Fasting over a sensible period of the week. 

[Curly]

22 hours ago, Mudface said:

I did Atkins a few years back and quite regularly plateaued for a couple of weeks, I did notice my body fat (via the scales) was still reducing though so wasn't too bothered. You can record your carb intake on My Fitness Pal which might help, I found it had to be between 20 and 30 g a day at the beginning for it to 'work'.

Yeah, that’s probably right. For most, but not everyone, if you remain sub 50g daily you will go into and maintain keto. I’ve just done the first week and 2 days - 6lbs down but stopped losing over last couple of days, but still looking trimmer. Going to to a month of it and then ease back into more normality - 3 or 4 portions of fruit per day, which I’m missing

[Lario]

Maybe drop your water intake?

 

Don't think you need that much when you're in ketosis as your body gets it from the fat breakdown.

[Mudface]

31 minutes ago, Lario said:

Maybe drop your water intake?

 

Don't think you need that much when you're in ketosis as your body gets it from the fat breakdown.

Nah, you definitely need more water- you're using up glycogen which helps retain water so should make sure you drink more.

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 hours ago, Lario said:

Maybe drop your water intake?

 

Don't think you need that much when you're in ketosis as your body gets it from the fat breakdown.

Think that’s not ideal, mate. Definitely need water and probably extra salt to go with it. 

[Guest]

Thomas DeLauer seems to know his shit on keto. I've just in the last couple of weeks started a 16:8 minimum 4 times per week keto/fasting and using a lot of the principles he recommends for specific age groups.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC70SrI3VkT1MXALRtf0pcHg