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Dave D

FSG are not shit

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43 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

The problem I have with the whole setup is this. Henry is a Baseball fan. He's a baseball fanatic and a massive Red Sox fan.

 

That puts us at a disadvantage, we are the bastard child that gets the castoffs. And it can only be that way, as for Henry, Liverpool is a business, not a passion.

 

He's damn well made sure Red Sox stay at the top of the tree. I just don't think they feel the same way about the reds. If we are successful, its a bonus to them, but as long as we turn a profit they will be happy with top 4 and a good CL run because we are entertainers.

 

I don't expect the wealth of City to be pumped into the Club. But I damn well expect to be able to sign a few quality additions every window, not be whinging we are paupers whilst being outspent by Brighton.

 

And i couldn't give a toss about who we bought last year, we have sold plenty of players for decent fees too, plenty of marketing deals, plenty of TV money.

 

Something smells fishy and it isn't the contents of Baldrick's apple crumble.

So what's the plan of action, then?  A club like Liverpool can't settle for this nonsense.  How are you going to get rid of FSG?

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11 minutes ago, TK421 said:

So what's the plan of action, then?  A club like Liverpool can't settle for this nonsense.  How are you going to get rid of FSG?

 

It's outside of the remit of us dumb cunts.  "Ultra vires", if you will.

We're looking to smart people like you for a solution.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

 

He's damn well made sure Red Sox stay at the top of the tree.

This is lazy journalism here -- in the last decade (so during the time of LFC ownership) they have come dead last in the division as often as they have come first.

 

This year they are way off the pace. In fact they might be the biggest yo yo in baseball -- think of another team that won the World Series then finished dead last the next season.

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1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

This is lazy journalism here -- in the last decade (so during the time of LFC ownership) they have come dead last in the division as often as they have come first.

 

This year they are way off the pace. In fact they might be the biggest yo yo in baseball -- think of another team that won the World Series then finished dead last the next season.

 

Lazy journalism yes, and they've come first a lazy twice.

 

 

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15 hours ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

They're American capitalists. They're always going to look at investing as little as possible whilst maximising their returns.

 

I hate American capitalists with a passion but if we are shit this season it won't be down to FSG. I will put the blame down to the shitty international tournaments over the summer causing fatigue with our best players. It's just a tad unlucky that our best players are with successful national sides. 

 

I think a combo of a CL hangover and the internationals will see us struggle and end up around 4th/5th end of season with a possible League cup or FA cup final. We won't win anything. But next year we'll be right back at it. 

 

It would take a total collapse for us to end up 4th or 5th considering how bad the teams behind us are. United, Arsenal and Chelsea haven't improved by that much. Two of them are managed by absolute novices. 

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1 hour ago, No2 said:

I know nothing about baseball, are you saying that FSG or Henry himself have pumped money into the Red Sox or have they just used that they generate?

There's no salary cap or any stringent financial rules in baseball so in theory, teams can spend as much on players as they want and the Red Sox have one of the highest payrolls in MLB. The difference with football is that there is financial fair play and FSG obviously have taken that seriously.

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On 15/07/2019 at 17:48, Captain said:

Never heard of them.

 

Mercedes-Genz, counterfeited like no other car.

 

MG was a British classic sports car manufacturer which went through various mergers, then went bust and was bought by a Chinese firm

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Baseball uses a tax system to control teams wage bills. The Dodgers and the Yankees are really the only teams that regularly incur this tax.

There is also a revenue sharing deal in MLB to help smaller market teams be competitive.

 

The biggest difference is teams control their own TV rights - so the Dodgers and Yankees print money there.

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On 23/07/2019 at 19:16, BeefStroganoff said:

I can't fucking stand them. never liked them, never been convinced by them. They are fortunate Klopp is good at squeezing everything out of what he has.

 

They didn't save us. they bought us on the cheap and saw an opportunity. Every penny we earn go to the stakeholders. I work for a similar company, profits go in the pocket and only occasionally, strategically go into moving the business forward.

 

This lot will be happy with top 4 this year and a good CL run, just to keep the coffers flowing.

 

I've said it many times in this thread I'm sure, but as of the last set of accounts, they had not taken a penny out of the club other than to repay some of what they had lent to the club.

 

Of course they are in it to make money, and at some stage they may decide to take out some dividends, but they will really make their money when the sell up, in whole or in part, and so taking cash out now will reduce the potential value of the club, and their profits, in the future.

 

They have, do, and will make mistakes, but no need to make things up.

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9 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Baseball uses a tax system to control teams wage bills. The Dodgers and the Yankees are really the only teams that regularly incur this tax.

There is also a revenue sharing deal in MLB to help smaller market teams be competitive.

 

The biggest difference is teams control their own TV rights - so the Dodgers and Yankees print money there.

Yeah, forgot about the tax. But it's one of those stupid things where the richest teams don't care about paying it and it impedes nothing.

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On 23/07/2019 at 22:09, Reckoner said:

You make some good points. Net spend of about £30 million a year isn’t it? Not great.

 

Based on the accounts from 2012/13 to 2017/18 it was £47m a year

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10 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Yeah, forgot about the tax. But it's one of those stupid things where the richest teams don't care about paying it and it impedes nothing.

I think only a couple other teams have ever crossed the tax threshold in baseball (the Red Sox being one), so the owners themselves effectively use a salary cap -- long history of suggestions of collusion on wages both in MLB and the NFL. These are basically closed fraternities and there is no chance of relegation. 

That said there is no pattern/history of any owner in those two leagues ever dropping large amounts of their own cash into players -- even if they wanted to, they really don't have to.

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On 24/07/2019 at 01:16, Jose Jones said:

I think there is definitely something to the argument that FSG having seen the value of their investment in the club increase massively could do a bit more in increasing the capacity of the stadium (Anny Road end) and having cheaper tickets available to fans.

 

However, we have seen that they are generally only willing to spend what the club earns, after an initial injection of funds.

 

When it comes to wages and transfers, we've again seen that they will only spend what the club earns.  This is also the rules under FFP, unless you want them to cook the books Man City style.

 

So there's the FFP thing, and also a lot of the complaining about FSG does not seem rooted in fact, which I find a little bit annoying. 

 

If you are going to criticise them I would like to see the facts of:  what our turnover is, what our profit and debt level is, what our wage bill is, what our turnover to wages ratio is, how that compares with other clubs, and therefore how much you think we have to spend.

 

Otherwise it's just shouting bollocks with nothing to back it up.

 

 

 

I like the cut of your jib Jose...

 

I put some turnover to wage ratio stuff on the MF yesterday!

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10 minutes ago, The Woolster said:

 

I like the cut of your jib Jose...

 

I put some turnover to wage ratio stuff on the MF yesterday!

Oh you lucky lucky members!

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On 29/07/2019 at 19:50, Horus said:

I remember about them talking about raising our revenues so we could invest in the squad, well we're not raising them much more than last season. 

 

Approx £80m total net spend under Klopp, which is criminal when you look not only at the clubs we have to compete against, but the fact we're the 7th richest club in the world, and we're being outspent by Villa and Brighton.

 

We spent £88m in 2016/17 and 2017/18, probably a couple of millions when we bought Grujic in his first window, and we spent vastly more than what came in last season, so I think you are a bit out there with your £80m approximation.

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10 minutes ago, The Woolster said:

 

We spent £88m in 2016/17 and 2017/18, probably a couple of millions when we bought Grujic in his first window, and we spent vastly more than what came in last season, so I think you are a bit out there with your £80m approximation.

https://www.anfield-online.co.uk/stats/jurgen-klopp-lfc-transfer-signings.html

 

Not 100% accurate, as loan fees etc aren't on there. For example, I believe we got a 2m loan fee from palace before they signed him permanently, but I can't see any massive errors. 

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13 minutes ago, Horus said:

https://www.anfield-online.co.uk/stats/jurgen-klopp-lfc-transfer-signings.html

 

Not 100% accurate, as loan fees etc aren't on there. For example, I believe we got a 2m loan fee from palace before they signed him permanently, but I can't see any massive errors. 

 

Yeah, someone posted that list back in February...

 

As it stands we have not received in the region of £20m of the Coutinho fee that they state, and they don't compare apples with apples. I dunno, seems like a bit of an error to me.

 

On 11/02/2019 at 19:13, The Woolster said:

 

I'm on my phone, but  an instantly see 5 or 6 issues with their numbers

 

Coutinho - Full amount including all add-on

Alisson - add ons not included 

Fabinho - add ons not included

Sinclair - no fee

Teixeira - no fee

 

Should I trust the rest of them?

The top 3 massively skew the numbers

This does not include the costs of doing the transfer fees, like agent fees.

 

 

On 14/02/2019 at 09:22, The Woolster said:

I have some rules of thumb on transfers fees because they rarely actually get announced by the clubs. Never trust transfer fees given on the the internet unless you really trust the source, and never use those figures to make a point unless you have checked that they are in the ballpark of being right according to a number of sources that you trust, otherwise you end up losing credibility...

 

And even then, the generally agreed fees do not include the costs of doing transfers, so are most likely wrong anyway!

 

What Anfield Online do is up to them!

 

Whilst not broken out to an individual transfer level, the amount the we spend and receive on transfers is available in our annual accounts, the only issue is that they are always 1 to 2 summer transfer windows behind.

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5 minutes ago, The Woolster said:

 

Yeah, someone posted that list back in February...

 

As it stands we have not received in the region of £20m of the Coutinho fee that they state, and they don't compare apples with apples. I dunno, seems like a bit of an error to me.

 

 

 

Whilst not broken out to an individual transfer level, the amount the we spend and receive on transfers is available in our annual accounts, the only issue is that they are always 1 to 2 summer transfer windows behind.

 

If you've got some accurate figures, then I'd genuinely be interested in seeing them if at all possible.

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On 29/07/2019 at 20:03, Doctor Troy said:

They run the club with more financial sense and business practice than the last two sets of owners which isn't hard to be honest. I do like the way they have increased the club revenues and we aren't massively in debt. They had the sense to hire Klopp but he is a perfect fit for them as he is good at working to a budget and is interested in developing young players. We offered the job to Ancelotti but he turned it down because he believed that we needed to spend shitloads to get the spine of the team to a decent level. 

 

I do wonder what they will do once Klopp leaves because there won't be another manager out there like him who will match up to their ethos. There might be one that emerges in the next couple of years but at the moment I'd only say Pochettino would fit their model. He'll either still be at Spurs or in Italy or Spain by then. 

 

We are a million times better off now than when Hodgson was here and then Kenny Dalglish bought some poor players. I honestly never thought we'd be in a position to challenge for the league for a long time, never mind the European Cup. Thank god we have Jurgen Klopp.

 

What annoys me about them is that they are ridiculously over cautious about certain things and always try to downplay everything. The tiresome stories they feed to the Echo over transfers are annoying,  they like to lower the expectations of the fans but want to make money from being successful. We are still a selling club, it's just that we are European Champions and no one wants to leave.

 

They have done far too much arsing about over the stadium issues.  Charging people money to stay on the season ticket waiting list just seems a cynical way of making cash when they don't seem to have any proactive plan to redevelop Anfield and they were fully aware of how many people wanted to watch us. They are not interested in the people who sell their tickets on sites to make money, a lot still seem to go to Thomas Cook. Also taking tickets from away fans who have attended hundreds of aways to give them to corporates is shite. 

 

 

Just on the Ancelotti thing.  I don’t know why people just invent stuff like this and reel it off as fact.  There is just no way we would have picked a chequebook manager like Ancelotti over Klopp  regardless.  Klopp was the absolute perfect fit to the point it felt too good to be true.  Ancelotti even came out and said he was never offered the job but intimated he would have taken it if he was.

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12 minutes ago, Horus said:

 

If you've got some accurate figures, then I'd genuinely be interested in seeing them if at all possible.

Google companies house beta and then type in Liverpool football club and athletic grounds.  Click on their profile and the top PDF is the latest set of accounts which is up to the end of May.  There’s loads of interesting stuff on there if you know what to look for.

 

The player acquisitions total was 195m.

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