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Dave D

FSG are not shit

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Put the bickering aside and consider the fixture list we could well be facing next season and a couple of decent new options would be wise. Even if we do avoid a glut of injuries just to freshen up the team's style is sensible. Rest assured our opponents will know us inside out next time out and I suspect it's one of the main reasons City and Chelsea before them bring in so many new top players. It's a big ask for the same squad to go and get 90 + points again but I can't see City not doing it.

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On 24/07/2019 at 15:43, magicrat said:

Put the bickering aside and consider the fixture list we could well be facing next season and a couple of decent new options would be wise. Even if we do avoid a glut of injuries just to freshen up the team's style is sensible. Rest assured our opponents will know us inside out next time out and I suspect it's one of the main reasons City and Chelsea before them bring in so many new top players. It's a big ask for the same squad to go and get 90 + points again but I can't see City not doing it.

Like I said in the 'shitness' thread,my problem is not that we  know City are going to rack up loads of points and win loads of games,its more the way most teams are just going to not really try and take points off them and look to other games to gain them.  Its a shit way of doing things but thats what happens when so much money is sloshing about just to stay in the PL without ever trying to challenge for honours.

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I dont agree the owners are holding back funds and tieing Klopp's hands regarding transfers. If Jurgen wanted a particular player or players, we'd be in for them. Maybe we have but the selling club have inflated the price because we're European Champions or the player is demanding first team football ahead of current 1st team players. It's clear he doesnt want coutinho back. He doesnt intend bringing a back up keeper in unless Mig leaves.

 

I dont get why people still have this 'just buy anyone' because Spurs, united and villa have.

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16 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

I dont agree the owners are holding back funds and tieing Klopp's hands regarding transfers. If Jurgen wanted a particular player or players, we'd be in for them. Maybe we have but the selling club have inflated the price because we're European Champions or the player is demanding first team football ahead of current 1st team players. It's clear he doesnt want coutinho back. He doesnt intend bringing a back up keeper in unless Mig leaves.

 

I dont get why people still have this 'just buy anyone' because Spurs, united and villa have.

I don't think its a case of 'buy anybody' its just that we,as a club,when very successful always strengthened from a position of strength,eg as League winners or european champions to increase competition among the players. Given how much football our current players have played,CL final in June,internationals into July,and the extra tournaments for the coming season then its not unrealistic to expect a couple of signings to help with that. Its been quite a while since we've been in this position so its important we make the most of it. It is entirely possible we bring in a couple of players close to deadline day but Klopp doesnt tend to work that way. We do have a very good squad in most areas but should injury befall our front three or gk then it could be significant. I'm not panicked personally as Klopp is a brilliant manager and continues to over achieve but it would be nice for him to have more back up this season as my biggest fear is injuries given how we seem to have some of the most injury prone players around,AOC,Lallana and Gomez for example.

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Can you give some examples of “strengthening from a position of strength”?

 

We only bought Dalglish with the Keegan money.

 

Often we bought cheap young players like Rush and Hansen and then gradually eased them in.

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17 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

Can you give some examples of “strengthening from a position of strength”?

 

We only bought Dalglish with the Keegan money.

 

Often we bought cheap young players like Rush and Hansen and then gradually eased them in.

I would also add that we were pretty much always in a position of strength so every signing over a 30 year period falls into that category. 

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1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

Can you give some examples of “strengthening from a position of strength”?

 

We only bought Dalglish with the Keegan money.

 

Often we bought cheap young players like Rush and Hansen and then gradually eased them in.

Hopefully our 7 foot ginger kid is going to be the next Hansen. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

Can you give some examples of “strengthening from a position of strength”?

 

We only bought Dalglish with the Keegan money.

 

Often we bought cheap young players like Rush and Hansen and then gradually eased them in.

Beardsley, Barnes, Houghton and Aldridge were all signed in one summer, if I recall. And I think we were pretty good before them with Dalglish, Rush, Johnson,  Molby etc.

 

I would love to know if it is true that AC Milan signed Luther Bisset thinking they were signing John Barnes. 

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4 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I don't think its a case of 'buy anybody' its just that we,as a club,when very successful always strengthened from a position of strength,eg as League winners or european champions to increase competition among the players. Given how much football our current players have played,CL final in June,internationals into July,and the extra tournaments for the coming season then its not unrealistic to expect a couple of signings to help with that. Its been quite a while since we've been in this position so its important we make the most of it. It is entirely possible we bring in a couple of players close to deadline day but Klopp doesnt tend to work that way. We do have a very good squad in most areas but should injury befall our front three or gk then it could be significant. I'm not panicked personally as Klopp is a brilliant manager and continues to over achieve but it would be nice for him to have more back up this season as my biggest fear is injuries given how we seem to have some of the most injury prone players around,AOC,Lallana and Gomez for example.

Like all clubs, we're only allowed a maximum squad of 25. It doesnt matter how unrealistic it may be, you cannot bring in more players without shifting some out of your 25 man squad.

 

So according to general comments of who isnt good enough, you move out mignolet, moreno (already gone), lovren and maybe lallana.

 

Who you going to replace mignolet with who is good enough to cover Alisson but is willing to sit on the bench until Alisson is unavailable?

 

Who we going to sign a cover for Robbo who's better than Moreno but again, happy to sit behind Robbo until he isnt available?

 

Who you going to replace lovren with who is better than him and willing to sit behind van Dijk, Gomez and Matip until one of them isnt available?

 

No doubt the usual miscreants will resort to red but the fact of the matter is Jurgen doesnt get in a lather. If he sees someone who'll do a job, he'll sign them.

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22 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Like all clubs, we're only allowed a maximum squad of 25. It doesnt matter how unrealistic it may be, you cannot bring in more players without shifting some out of your 25 man squad.

 

So according to general comments of who isnt good enough, you move out mignolet, moreno (already gone), lovren and maybe lallana.

 

Who you going to replace mignolet with who is good enough to cover Alisson but is willing to sit on the bench until Alisson is unavailable?

 

Who we going to sign a cover for Robbo who's better than Moreno but again, happy to sit behind Robbo until he isnt available?

 

Who you going to replace lovren with who is better than him and willing to sit behind van Dijk, Gomez and Matip until one of them isnt available?

 

No doubt the usual miscreants will resort to red but the fact of the matter is Jurgen doesnt get in a lather. If he sees someone who'll do a job, he'll sign them.

 

Just to say, the scum signed Silvestre from under our noses because they promised him he'd be their starting centre half. He was a backup left back for years before getting his chance in the position he'd been promised. Not sure why we have to be the only team that is 100% honest with everyone about everything.

 

Also, it's a bit redundant asking folks on a forum to rail off a list of reserve left backs with potential, it's not like we're paid members of, I don't know...a transfer committee. It's not like we only need to sign backups either; the last couple of months of the season were a grind that often pushed us to the edge of our limits. We need a bit more quality to come in. I love our midfielders but we're a bit functional and over reliant on our forwards to make things happen, who in turn, also don't have any creative replacements (not including new signings like injury prone players and promising kids). 

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40 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Like all clubs, we're only allowed a maximum squad of 25. It doesnt matter how unrealistic it may be, you cannot bring in more players without shifting some out of your 25 man squad.

 

So according to general comments of who isnt good enough, you move out mignolet, moreno (already gone), lovren and maybe lallana.

 

Who you going to replace mignolet with who is good enough to cover Alisson but is willing to sit on the bench until Alisson is unavailable?

 

Who we going to sign a cover for Robbo who's better than Moreno but again, happy to sit behind Robbo until he isnt available?

 

Who you going to replace lovren with who is better than him and willing to sit behind van Dijk, Gomez and Matip until one of them isnt available?

 

No doubt the usual miscreants will resort to red but the fact of the matter is Jurgen doesnt get in a lather. If he sees someone who'll do a job, he'll sign them.

Pretty sure you can have more than 25 in your squad, as I think there's rules around young and homegrown players, so for instance Trent probably doesn't need to be in the A squad or whatever it's called. 

 

Do we actually fill all 25 spaces anyway? And the issue for me and I'm sure others, is not just where we're thin on the ground (full back and forwards) but some of the so called depth won't play, like lallana because they're just not up to it anymore. If they can't contribute, ship them out and replace them with people who can contribute. You mention lovren and who better to have around, he's been at the club about 5 years and never played more than 6 consecutive games I think. Ship him out too. 

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48 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Like all clubs, we're only allowed a maximum squad of 25. It doesnt matter how unrealistic it may be, you cannot bring in more players without shifting some out of your 25 man squad.

 

So according to general comments of who isnt good enough, you move out mignolet, moreno (already gone), lovren and maybe lallana.

 

Who you going to replace mignolet with who is good enough to cover Alisson but is willing to sit on the bench until Alisson is unavailable?

 

Who we going to sign a cover for Robbo who's better than Moreno but again, happy to sit behind Robbo until he isnt available?

 

Who you going to replace lovren with who is better than him and willing to sit behind van Dijk, Gomez and Matip until one of them isnt available?

 

No doubt the usual miscreants will resort to red but the fact of the matter is Jurgen doesnt get in a lather. If he sees someone who'll do a job, he'll sign them.

I don't think it's fair to say that any new signing is coming in to backup an existing player. They should be signed to compete and play in place of when a different player is required. This is and always has been The Liverpool Way. I'm sure any player who has come in to the club over the last sixty years would have seen who they were trying to get into the side ahead of and quite fancied the idea of showing they could get in.

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14 minutes ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

I don't think it's fair to say that any new signing is coming in to backup an existing player. They should be signed to compete and play in place of when a different player is required. This is and always has been The Liverpool Way. I'm sure any player who has come in to the club over the last sixty years would have seen who they were trying to get into the side ahead of and quite fancied the idea of showing they could get in.

Even big Erik meijer?

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4 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

Even big Erik meijer?

Especially big Erik Meijer. He must have fancied his chances of getting some headers in ahead of Fowler and Owen. We all have our crosses to bear, the trouble was he didn't get any crosses to head.

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1 hour ago, dockers_strike said:

Like all clubs, we're only allowed a maximum squad of 25. It doesnt matter how unrealistic it may be, you cannot bring in more players without shifting some out of your 25 man squad.

 

So according to general comments of who isnt good enough, you move out mignolet, moreno (already gone), lovren and maybe lallana.

 

Who you going to replace mignolet with who is good enough to cover Alisson but is willing to sit on the bench until Alisson is unavailable?

 

Who we going to sign a cover for Robbo who's better than Moreno but again, happy to sit behind Robbo until he isnt available?

 

Who you going to replace lovren with who is better than him and willing to sit behind van Dijk, Gomez and Matip until one of them isnt available?

 

No doubt the usual miscreants will resort to red but the fact of the matter is Jurgen doesnt get in a lather. If he sees someone who'll do a job, he'll sign them.

I don't necessarily disagree with your comments but if the same small group of players continue to be played week in,week out and supposing injuries or suspensions aren't an issue,how do you create competition? One of the best things our club ever did was make sure nobody was certain of their place,Dalglish included (remembering when Bob Paisley dropped him to great effect.) Ferguson was pretty ruthless in that respect too and it helped his team stay at the top. My problem,as mentioned by others is continuing to hold on to the likes of Lovren and Lallana who have continued to let us down(injuries and poor displays) and them blocking the routes of potential youngsters also. To be fair,these sorts of problems are probably more to do with poor business decisions by rewarding mediocrity with big wages and long contracts which are not specifically an LFC problem and are rife in the game.

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6 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

Can you give some examples of “strengthening from a position of strength”?

 

We only bought Dalglish with the Keegan money.

 

Often we bought cheap young players like Rush and Hansen and then gradually eased them in.

I'll give you some:

 

Buying Robinson when we had Rush and Dalglish and Hodgson.

 

Buying Wark, Walsh and Molby when we had Souness, Rush, Robinson, Dalglish, Whelan, Lee and Johnston.

 

Buying McMahon when we had Molby, Whelan, Lee, Wark and McDonald.

 

Buying Spackman, Aldridge, Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton to replace Rush.

 

Buying Rosenthal, when we had Rush, Barnes, Beardsley and Aldridge.

 

And that was back when for the most part one sub was allowed on a match day.

 

They always lkept the squad on their toes and hungry. Its not revisionist garbage.

 

 

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2 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I don't necessarily disagree with your comments but if the same small group of players continue to be played week in,week out and supposing injuries or suspensions aren't an issue,how do you create competition? One of the best things our club ever did was make sure nobody was certain of their place,Dalglish included (remembering when Bob Paisley dropped him to great effect.) Ferguson was pretty ruthless in that respect too and it helped his team stay at the top. My problem,as mentioned by others is continuing to hold on to the likes of Lovren and Lallana who have continued to let us down(injuries and poor displays) and them blocking the routes of potential youngsters also. To be fair,these sorts of problems are probably more to do with poor business decisions by rewarding mediocrity with big wages and long contracts which are not specifically an LFC problem and are rife in the game.

Wasting your time pal.

 

I wouldn't mind too much, but the 'depth' we have must be the most injury prone I've ever witnessed.

 

Shaqiri,

Lovren

Matip,

Gomez,

Lallana

Ox

 

and so far kieta.

 

These are the players we are relying on to step up. half of them can't stay off the treatment table. Ox is already carrying.

 

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14 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

I'll give you some:

 

Buying Robinson when we had Rush and Dalglish and Hodgson.

 

Buying Wark, Walsh and Molby when we had Souness, Rush, Robinson, Dalglish, Whelan, Lee and Johnston.

 

Buying McMahon when we had Molby, Whelan, Lee, Wark and McDonald.

 

Buying Spackman, Aldridge, Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton to replace Rush.

 

Buying Rosenthal, when we had Rush, Barnes, Beardsley and Aldridge.

 

And that was back when for the most part one sub was allowed on a match day.

 

They always lkept the squad on their toes and hungry. Its not revisionist garbage.

 

 

There are a couple of top players on that list -- but most were brought in knowing they were going to be a backup. The difference is today, even slightly above average players can go to any team in the league and get good wages.

And play.

 

Robinson was shipped out immediately - Wark had one top season. Both good pros - ateotd, journeyman with the vast majority of their journeys with other clubs. Rosenthal always struggled for games.

McMahon was chosen specifically and was certainly deemed a first team addition - there was not a lot of competition for his role.

The season bringing in Barnes et al was a complete makeover of the side.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Wasting your time pal.

 

I wouldn't mind too much, but the 'depth' we have must be the most injury prone I've ever witnessed.

 

Shaqiri,

Lovren

Matip,

Gomez,

Lallana

Ox

 

and so far kieta.

 

These are the players we are relying on to step up. half of them can't stay off the treatment table. Ox is already carrying.

 

Each of them will need their own injury table.

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When John Henry made these comments a month ago - 'We need to get healthy. We need Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain back, we need a healthy Lallana. And I would guess we will see more of Divock next year' - I was surprised more wasn't made of it, because it struck me that he'd pretty much already decided that Klopp was going to have to make the best of what we have. FSG have learnt a lot since they've been here, but they seem to need to learn it the hard way. 

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14 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

 he'd pretty much already decided that Klopp was going to have to make the best of what we have. 

I doubt he had anything to do with that decision tbh. 

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