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FSG are not shit


Dave D
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Here is the exchange.

 

Torahboy: Can't say I'm bothered about not being in the FA Cup fifth round but our performance, again, was fucking woeful.The game was brought to the state of farce in the first half but descended to just absolute shite in the second. It became the sort of game this clapped out, old, meaningless trophy deserves.

 

On to Tuesday.

 

 

Me: Meaningless trophy...what a load of shite.

 

There are a mere 4 trophies we can win in a season...we haven't won one in 12 years and fans call a trophy meaningless.

 

Ah well maybe the 4th place trophy is all what matters now eh...absolute shite

 

Torahboy: Shut up, you fucking dope. The FA devalued their own competition when they allowed the holders to pull out of it while they went on holiday to South America. Why should we hold it in any esteem?

 

If you want to see Liverpool players handling sparkly metals go with one of them on their next visit to a jewellers.

 

 

Me: No need for personal insults.

 

If you don't care about winning trophies then maybe following football isn't for you.

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disappointing you forgot about kennys cup

I was referencing this cup but accept it wasn't well worded and can read that wasn't counting league cup in 2012.

 

I was actually lucky enough to be there - was a fucking great day out (twrrible display!) - days like that are what following a team is all about.

 

Also snared a ticket last minute to that years FA cup final and it hurt like fuck losing - nobody could tell me it was meaningless that day....was gutting.

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Why are people still obsessed about the Mancs not defending the FA Cup in 2000?. Everyone who goes on about it thinks that because the great Manchester United didn't enter it one year then it was meaningless after that. I didn't give a fuck about them dropping out when we won in 2001 and 2006.

Neither did I.

 

It's a quite bizarre logic involved in the view that the mancs decide which trophies are worth winning.

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Why are people still obsessed about the Mancs not defending the FA Cup in 2000?. Everyone who goes on about it thinks that because the great Manchester United didn't enter it one year then it was meaningless after that. I didn't give a fuck about them dropping out when we won in 2001 and 2006.

 

Ironically they probably no give two shit either when they won it a couple years ago

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It’s not necessarily about Coutinho for me, it’s about general ambition.

 

Players will come and go, some when it suits LFC, some when it doesn’t.

 

Maybe some players would stay longer if we win things

 

I asked you about Coutinho because I am trying to understand how people measure ambition, other than just saying we don't win any trophies, therefore, there is no ambition. If Coutinho has stayed, with Salah, Ox-Chamberlain, VVD and Keita we would have the most ambitiously assembled team in decades, buying the most expensive defender in history, going after and breaking the club's record for one of the hottest young midfielders in Europe etc. I don't expect more from the club and don't understand what people who do base their expectations on.  

So for me, at the moment, the most important thing is how we respond to the major setback which is Coutinho leaving. It's disappointing that we have not secured a replacement in time, but I'm willing to accept that it was not easy with that type of player, since Klopp does not seem to be a short term solutions type. He seems to be reasonably confident we can finish top four with the squad we have (admittedly, it looked much more likely before losing the last two games) and further strengthen in the summer or when the right targets are identified. If we do, that's showing reasonable level of ambition. Now, which is what matters to me, not over the eight years under this owners, with net spends, rollovers etc.

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I asked you about Coutinho because I am trying to understand how people measure ambition, other than just saying we don't win any trophies, therefore, there is no ambition. If Coutinho has stayed, with Salah, Ox-Chamberlain, VVD and Keita we would have the most ambitiously assembled team in decades, buying the most expensive defender in history, going after and breaking the club's record for one of the hottest young midfielders in Europe etc. I don't expect more from the club and don't understand what people who do base their expectations on.

So for me, at the moment, the most important thing is how we respond to the major setback which is Coutinho leaving. It's disappointing that we have not secured a replacement in time, but I'm willing to accept that it was not easy with that type of player, since Klopp does not seem to be a short term solutions type. He seems to be reasonably confident we can finish top four with the squad we have (admittedly, it looked much more likely before losing the last two games) and further strengthen in the summer or when the right targets are identified. If we do, that's showing reasonable level of ambition. Now, which is what matters to me, not over the eight years under this owners, with net spends, rollovers etc.

Thanks for this mate.

 

The biggest problem for me is constantly letting our better players leave.

 

I know players will leave and that is part of football but how can we build something when we seem to be taking a large step back every 2 years? We have to start keeping our better players, which will in turn attract better players.

 

I remember reading somewhere about how impressed the Arsenal squad were when they heard the news that they had signed ( can’t remember whether it was Ozil or Sanchez) They were on a photo shoot thing for their new kit when the club announced it. Players want to play with better players.

 

I’m pretty sure we knew Coutinho would be off in this window- so why didn’t we plan? Why isn’t the replacement lined up? Otherwise tell him that he stays til Summer.

 

I can’t blame players wanting to leave after 4/5 years here when they have won fuck all and I think we will be lucky if we get that long out of Salah.

 

Unless the ambition of the club changes, we will always be seen as a stepping stone.

 

Maybe as an older fan, I’ve been spoilt as I’ve seen us lift European cups and league titles.

 

We have spent money as you have said, but sometimes transfer fees are relative to the market. £30m gets you nothing now does it??

 

As much as I hated it at the time, look at when Torres left - we were always in that transition period and asking top class players to stay through another 4 year plan doesn’t work.

 

I’m sick of the promise of jam tomorrow

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Good post Marko -- except Arsenal have sold their best player and Captain to the same team twice in the time FSG has been here.

 

They will look really good in the photo Op when Ozil packs his bags -- which he did 6 months ago. They are now in storage.

 

Santi Cazorla and Walcott can be photoshopped in.

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Good post Marko -- except Arsenal have sold their best player and Captain to the same team twice in the time FSG has been here.

 

They will look really good in the photo Op when Ozil packs his bags -- which he did 6 months ago. They are now in storage.

 

Santi Cazorla and Walcott can be photoshopped in.

Thanks mate. I was just trying to give an example of how players can attract others and can up the game of those already there.

 

Maybe Arsenal not the best example though.

 

Other than the type of owners they are, I have no problem with FSG - They are not the type of owner this club needs.

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We knew coutinho was likely to leave so there is no excuse. He is worth two or three players! His free kicks, vision, ability to make something out of nothing and the fear he instilled in the opposition.

 

No one is in the slightest bit concerned about can, wijnaldum, henderson or the ox so ale house teams can sit on our forwards knowing our midfield are unlikely to protect or create and when they break through our wet cardboard midfield they are met with an inept defensive unit - jackpot.

 

However big clubs cant play like that(mancs apart) and that suits us so it isnt all doom and gloom as we are good at the hard part - the big games!

 

If the plan was ox, vvd and keita for coutinho then i think that is madness considering keita wont arrive until the summer, vvd cant do it on his own and ox is pretty much an unknown.

 

However, i am happy for the manager to live and die by the sword. If he thinks he has enough to get 4th, do well in the cl and then buy the players he needs then great. I hope he has a big wedge to buy the players we need but lets just see if salah goes to madrid.

 

In any event, i fancy us in the cl. Lets just go full keegan over two legs.

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wouldn't of minded Ozil myself as a short term solution but guess his wage demands are huge...

At his best he’s a brilliant player. But switches off in long patches I think. And definately not suited to the pressing game that Klopp want us to play.

 

And yes, even if he did suit us, the wage demands would be massive.

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Did we know Coutinho was deffo leaving this window. I did not. I thought the transfer saga was likely finished til the summer. You can argue we might have thought he would leave this window but the fact is would we be looking to spend £80m-£90m on his replacement not knowing he was going. Think there is a lot of reaction going on due to the last two results and Coutinho deciding he was not staying this time no matter what.

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Thanks mate. I was just trying to give an example of how players can attract others and can up the game of those already there.

 

Maybe Arsenal not the best example though.

 

Other than the type of owners they are, I have no problem with FSG - They are not the type of owner this club needs.

 

 

We do not have any other type -- and frankly never have had. If they are the wrong type might as well close the club - cuz there is no Prince Charming in our future.

 

My guess is LFC were actually higher up the money league when Moores was in charge. At that time there couldn't have been more than a handful of clubs who made more money. Certainly Chelsea and City were not even close. So maybe we are just shit at the whole club thing and the team has carried us for the last 3 decades.

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Thanks for this mate.

 

The biggest problem for me is constantly letting our better players leave.

 

I know players will leave and that is part of football but how can we build something when we seem to be taking a large step back every 2 years? We have to start keeping our better players, which will in turn attract better players.

 

I remember reading somewhere about how impressed the Arsenal squad were when they heard the news that they had signed ( can’t remember whether it was Ozil or Sanchez) They were on a photo shoot thing for their new kit when the club announced it. Players want to play with better players.

 

I’m pretty sure we knew Coutinho would be off in this window- so why didn’t we plan? Why isn’t the replacement lined up? Otherwise tell him that he stays til Summer.

 

I can’t blame players wanting to leave after 4/5 years here when they have won fuck all and I think we will be lucky if we get that long out of Salah.

 

Unless the ambition of the club changes, we will always be seen as a stepping stone.

 

Maybe as an older fan, I’ve been spoilt as I’ve seen us lift European cups and league titles.

 

We have spent money as you have said, but sometimes transfer fees are relative to the market. £30m gets you nothing now does it??

 

As much as I hated it at the time, look at when Torres left - we were always in that transition period and asking top class players to stay through another 4 year plan doesn’t work.

 

I’m sick of the promise of jam tomorrow

 

I think Torres left because we were a club in decline, an that was, what, seven years ago, when we were sliding into administration, the only player leaving because there was lack of $$$ambition$$$ since was Sterling, who we thought made unreasonable financial demands and was wanted by the richest club in the league. Suarez was per$$$uaded  to stay, he actually left when we were on a major high ambition-wise, so did Coutinho. When Ronaldo left United, I don't think they could have been more successful / ambitious than they were at the time.

 

To go back to FSG, watching them all this time since they took us over, I would say they are a learning organization and I would argue they have not shown more ambition since they took over than they are showing now. I would probably have done things differently in their position and with their goals during their first 3 or 4 years here, but at the moment, I think they finally have the manager they trust and if we think there is something holding us back, it's not the current business model or approach at the ownership level.

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We do not have any other type -- and frankly never have had. If they are the wrong type might as well close the club - cuz there is no Prince Charming in our future.

 

My guess is LFC were actually higher up the money league when Moores was in charge. At that time there couldn't have been more than a handful of clubs who made more money. Certainly Chelsea and City were not even close. So maybe we are just shit at the whole club thing and the team has carried us for the last 3 decades.

When I say the wrong type I mean that they have not got a winning mentality when it comes to LFC ( I don’t follow what they do for the Redsox)

 

They certainly have the money. They are very rich men.

 

We haven’t got City, Chelsea or PSG money so does that mean we should just pack up? Invest the money to at least try to get us back to the top.

 

Worldwide, this club is bigger than City and Chelsea - but we won’t be for long if we don’t do something.

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Arsenal are a mess because their manager is not compos mentis. FSG benefit hugely from that club’s internal incompetency. Offering out multiple 300k p/w contracts is not something we would dream of doing. If Arsenal get their act together with a proper manager in the manner of City/Utd/Chelsea, the league will be a gloomy place to be.

 

The Glazers - of all owners - have put FSG to shame with how they’ve built Utd up, albeit with a succession of awful managerial appointments post Ferguson.

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I think Torres left because we were a club in decline, an that was, what, seven years ago, when we were sliding into administration, the only player leaving because there was lack of $$$ambition$$$ since was Sterling, who we thought made unreasonable financial demands and was wanted by the richest club in the league. Suarez was per$$$uaded to stay, he actually left when we were on a major high ambition-wise, so did Coutinho. When Ronaldo left United, I don't think they could have been more successful / ambitious than they were at the time.

 

To go back to FSG, watching them all this time since they took us over, I would say they are a learning organization and I would argue they have not shown more ambition since they took over than they are showing now. I would probably have done things differently in their position and with their goals during their first 3 or 4 years here, but at the moment, I think they finally have the manager they trust and if we think there is something holding us back, it's not the current business model or approach at the ownership level.

Ronaldo had won all there was to win at the mancs though. We had players leave over the years when we were on a high ( Keegan, Souness spring to mind ) but we went on.

 

It’s not the same now, if we want to progress, we must find a way to keep the players that are important to us.

 

The players you have here can be a massive draw for other players.

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Yet still some of our fans 'don't give a shit about the fa cup' as stated here last night.

 

I got called out by some quim last night and told "if i care about seeing our players with shiny things i should go with them on their next trip to the jewellers"

 

Unfuckingbelievable.

The FA devalued their own trophy so why should fans give a shit themselves? My concerns are purely with the dramatic drop in form over a short period and the strain put on our team by having an appalling squad lacking in quality outside of around half a dozen players. The fact that we are relying so heavily on so few players is definitely a legitimate concern. Putting aside the ownership for a second,I don't think anybody would deny that a couple of signings before the transfer window closes would be anything other than a positive move by the club. One out and one in,not like for like players,just doesn't help give confidence in us riding out any further loss of form or injury crises.

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Whatever mate. I doubt those days will ever return, but part of that is people accepting mediocrity

 

 

Nobody has accepted anything -- many people have started to suggest (since those pesky Yanks got involved the first time)  that instead of getting outplayed on the pitch by teams that shouldn't be able to lace our boots, and giving the players a rollicking -  we are getting outowned.

 

West Brom is shite -- the players we have should roll over that mob 9 out of 10 -- yes or no?

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